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Amplified (EX, MB) moves — Universal inputs are back

HellblazerHawkman

Confused Thanagarian
That's some high execution, and as a BBCF player I can understand it. Or that thot's (Bullet) special, which is a fast command grab super.

You could make it double QCF to make things a bit more complicated. If you guys want an even more complicated input, that's the QCB>HCF in one string.
As a Noel player (arguably the most braindead character in the series), everything I've done in a BB game is still more complicated than NRS games adding in random buttons after specials
 
You’re not learning twice as many special moves, you’re learning the same amount of special moves, they just have a contextual addition.

Are you telling me you wouldn’t be able to remember that Sub’s EX slide, that you know is a throw, is done by pressing throw? When you think of the move the command will be recalled immediately because it actually makes sense in regards to what the character is doing. Just like normal strings.

If you can remember like 15 strings per character, you can remember like 15 strings and a couple of button presses at the end of certain special moves. In fact strings are harder to remember because they can have +5 different individual commands of varying directional input and timing. You would almost certainly understand the specials and their follow up easier than you would most strings because the specials actually have simpler commands.

We also already know move list size doesn’t really hinder memorization in the long run. If you’re going to be playing the game for a long time you will eventually have done all of your character’s moves(and have seen other people do moves) that you have them down to reflex or muscle memory.
First off, you basically ARE learning twice as many special moves. I mean the inputs aren’t as complex but you still have to learn the special move and the subset part that would cause a meter burn. If a character has 15 special moves with subsets, that’s almost equivalent to if that character had 30 special moves, just with a bit less complexity.

I get that this will be understood in the long run regardless of the player, it’s just that it seems very extra and is a perfect example of change for the sake of it. They already have a different play style for the game, different wake ups, a different combo system, a ton of things. It wouldn’t be the hardest thing in the universe but they wouldn’t want to overwhelm the player base with all of the new changes. I mean dude, they have been doing the universal meter burn button for a very long time, then changing it would be a huge deal and would be disliked so much by the player base, hence why it got changed..
 
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Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
As a Noel player (arguably the most braindead character in the series), everything I've done in a BB game is still more complicated than NRS games adding in random buttons after specials
Wow. I'm a Tao player (arguably the most rare and difficult character in the series). I hope to play you one day, if you're EU. Got this in PC and PS4 (PC preferrably). Being an anime FGer makes things much easier, while doing the hard AF inputs.
 

Demon_0

RIP Akira Toriyama

Not sure if this was posted, but Tom Brady makes some good points on the matter. I feel like they should have given the initial amplified inputs a chance at least. They could have patched it out later, or better yet, add both as an option like suggested in the discussion.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Not sure if this was posted, but Tom Brady makes some good points on the matter. I feel like they should have given the initial amplified inputs a chance at least. They could have patched it out later, or better yet, add both as an option like suggested in the discussion.
It literally adds nothing.
 

Cobainevermind87

Mid-match beer sipper
It adds depth to character knowledge simply because it takes away the universal aspect of doing moves. It also makes counter-picking way more interesting because of this.
It literally adds 15-20 minutes in the lab memorizing how to amplify a particular character's given specials.

How does it make counter-picking more interesting?
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
It adds depth to character knowledge simply because it takes away the universal aspect of doing moves. It also makes counter-picking way more interesting because of this.
This adds 0 depth to the character knowledge. You memorize 3 extra inputs that don’t affect the gameplay at all and you’re done. 99.9% of your time will be spent learning the meta, combos, punishes and everything else.

So should we just torch it all and reduce the fight to see who hits the win button first?
Given that changing the MB buttons doesn’t change the gameplay at all, or how the match goes, or the win conditions, I’m not sure what your point is here.
 
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trufenix

bye felicia
I'm not sure where anyone said they were in favor of this.
If the argument against is "it adds nothing to the meta" then why have different inputs at all? Why have different moves? Why have different characters?

You can throw that copout at any feature you don't like if all that matters is what wins and what loses.
 

Cobainevermind87

Mid-match beer sipper
I can't believe people actually seriously believe that adding arbitrary f2 and u3 commands to 'amplify' a special move adds depth in any way. They'll be memorized by anyone with half a brain in minutes and fully soaked into muscle memory within a day.

On the other hand, we have frame data, combos, staggers, meta, setups, matchups, anti-airs, oki, etc that will continue to be labbed for YEARS. But no, it was all going to come down to that one extra little input where matches are won or lost lol. Absolutely asinine.

I hope they bring them back so these guys would stop crying. 15 extra minutes (I'm being generous) to learn a character's amplify commands is nothing when you compare it to the amount of time spent learning their optimal BnBs, tech, frames, setups, AAs, etc.
 

GOL Eklectic

Surrender, it's over.
This adds 0 depth to the character knowledge. You memorize 3 extra inputs that don’t affect the gameplay at all and you’re done. 99.9% of your time will be spent learning the meta, combos, punishes and everything else.


Given that changing the MB buttons doesn’t change the gameplay at all, or how the match goes, or the win conditions, I’m not sure what your point is here.
I agree it adds nothing to the meta or depth to the game. I think what some of us are mostly worried about are seeing counter pick fests at every major. It would just require a person to devote more time to a character to just say “ya know, why learn this matchup when I can just play this character” and then some character just don’t progress in the long run. It’s lame but it’s really up to nrs to try to avoid this from happening with good balance.
 

Scyther

Mortal Kombat-phile
I think the folks who are upset about the change have some reason to be. It's clearly something they wanted to try out, and I think NRS could have pleased everyone by making it a toggle option (although I feel like toggling on unique inputs vs someone playing with universal puts the former at a disadvantage, but to each their own).

Personally, I'm glad it's back to universal.
 

trufenix

bye felicia
I hope they bring them back so these guys would stop crying. 15 extra minutes (I'm being generous) to learn a character's amplify commands is nothing when you compare it to the amount of time spent learning their optimal BnBs, tech, frames, setups, AAs, etc.
Maybe next time have this attitude about new features BEFORE blindly hating them down.
 

GOL Eklectic

Surrender, it's over.
I can't believe people actually seriously believe that adding arbitrary f2 and u3 commands to 'amplify' a special move adds depth in any way. They'll be memorized by anyone with half a brain in minutes and fully soaked into muscle memory within a day.

On the other hand, we have frame data, combos, staggers, meta, setups, matchups, anti-airs, oki, etc that will continue to be labbed for YEARS. But no, it was all going to come down to that one extra little input where matches are won or lost lol. Absolutely asinine.

I hope they bring them back so these guys would stop crying. 15 extra minutes (I'm being generous) to learn a character's amplify commands is nothing when you compare it to the amount of time spent learning their optimal BnBs, tech, frames, setups, AAs, etc.
I was under the impression that the timing of inputs to enhance moves before the change was strict.
 

Marlow

Champion
It would just require a person to devote more time to a character to just say “ya know, why learn this matchup when I can just play this character” and then some character just don’t progress in the long run. It’s lame but it’s really up to nrs to try to avoid this from happening with good balance.
To me this seems like more of a community issue than an issue with the game. NRS players seem more willing to learn multiple characters than players in other fighting games. Personally I don't mind counterpicking. I think it's fun to watch top players bust out 2-3 different characters. Adds more variety to the viewing experience.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
I agree it adds nothing to the meta or depth to the game. I think what some of us are mostly worried about are seeing counter pick fests at every major. It would just require a person to devote more time to a character to just say “ya know, why learn this matchup when I can just play this character” and then some character just don’t progress in the long run. It’s lame but it’s really up to nrs to try to avoid this from happening with good balance.
No one who is willing to go through the time of learning an entirely new character and their normals, strings, meta, bnbs, punishes, frame data, and a couple matchups would be dissuaded from counterpicking because they need to spend 5 extra mins first to learn the MB inputs are before they start practicing the bnbs.

Literally no one.

This is a false talking point that is being repeated without people really thinking about it much.