Guide All-Star Superman Guide

[TJ Casters]

I'm really sick of people making the "Superman is F23" jokes. He's a simple character. His other strings have no benefit from using them or have terrible reach or can be ducked.

111 can be ducked
B23 can't combo into anything
223 can't be used as a mix-up because it can be easily fuzzy-guarded.

We get it, you see a lot of F23 breath, but that's one of the only things the character has. He's a very basic character.
If we didn't use F23, breath, or heat vision of any sort, the character would stink.

 

[M-Aran-X]

I'm really sick of people making the "Superman is F23" jokes. He's a simple character. His other strings have no benefit from using them or have terrible reach or can be ducked.

111 can be ducked
B23 can't combo into anything
223 can't be used as a mix-up because it can be easily fuzzy-guarded.

We get it, you see a lot of F23 breath, but that's one of the only things the character has. He's a very basic character.
If we didn't use F23, breath, or heat vision of any sort, the character would stink.

That answer is actually a disgrace to the character. Sorry but I rather have my main superman nerfed instead of accepting everyone using f23 breath all the way without even considering how to use his other tools.
yes 111 can be ducked, but not after an air dash 1 into 111 and it can be made safe with breath.
Same goes for b23 and that thing can be combo into bf3 for the sake of variation and pressure.
same goes for 22, also why would someone use 223 if the first hit didn't connect? better stick to 22 breath. Most of this things can be connected with a throw if you do your research, but nobody cares about that, only f23 breath all the way to the corner and that's it, oh plus zoning of course.

 

[TJ Casters]

that answer is actually a disgrace to the character. Sorry but I rather have my main superman nerfed instead of accepting everyone using f23 breath all the way without even considering how to use his other tools.
yes 111 can be ducked, but not after an air dash 1 into 111 and it can be made safe with breath.
Same goes for b23 and that thing can be combo into bf3 for the sake of variation and pressure.
same goes for 22, also why would someone use 223 if the first hit didn't connect? better stick to 22 breath. Most of this things can be connected with a throw if you do your research, but nobody cares about that, only f23 breath all the way to the corner and that's it, oh plus zoning of course.

I'm not saying don't do anything other than F23. I actually use all of his strings a lot. I was just saying those are his best moves and people use them over other things. Also what can't be used after an air dash 1? You can't punish tons of things with anything other than F23, so people should stop hating on it so much. I never said anything about 223 when the first whiffs. I don't know where you got that from. I was referring to what people say is a mix-up using that string, even though it can be fuzzied.

 

[TJ Casters]

That answer is actually a disgrace to the character. Sorry but I rather have my main superman nerfed instead of accepting everyone using f23 breath all the way without even considering how to use his other tools.
yes 111 can be ducked, but not after an air dash 1 into 111 and it can be made safe with breath.
Same goes for b23 and that thing can be combo into bf3 for the sake of variation and pressure.
same goes for 22, also why would someone use 223 if the first hit didn't connect? better stick to 22 breath. Most of this things can be connected with a throw if you do your research, but nobody cares about that, only f23 breath all the way to the corner and that's it, oh plus zoning of course.

I believe bf3 is also highly punishable unless meter burned, so it's pretty pointless to use that after b23 if it's blocked.

 

[M-Aran-X]

I believe bf3 is also highly punishable unless meter burned, so it's pretty pointless to use that after b23 if it's blocked.

if it gets blocked use breath to make it safe. If it does connect use bf3 to bring him to the corner, all for the sake of variation.

 

[TJ Casters]

if it gets blocked use breath to make it safe. If it does connect use bf3 to bring him to the corner, all for the sake of variation.

Ok, thanks for the tip.
Unrelated: For the way you were talking to others in the thread, your posts are a disgrace to the character.

 

[M-Aran-X]

Ok, thanks for the tip.
Unrelated: For the way you were talking to others in the thread, your posts are a disgrace to the character.

Fine, think what you want.

 

[Drecker]

My go-to f23 meterless trait combos I've never seen used for some reason. Untraited you're better off doing f23, j2, f23, f2 xx Scoop, 3 xx Flying Punch.

f23 (Trait) f23, f23, f2 xx Scoop, 3 xx Flying Punch.
27% Naked.
33% Trait.
37% j2 starter + Trait.

Seems to whiff if first f2 hits from absolute max range.

Rising Grab & Laser ender:
28% Naked.
35% Trait.
38% j2 starter + Trait.

Stop being lazy and do your optimal combos when playing offline. These aren't difficult at all; sacrificing a lot of damage and carry distance for "consistency" wouldn't be a problem if you weren't inconsistent in the first place. There's no reason not to do the f23, j2 traitless variant and now there's no reason not to do this if you're doing meterless trait combos - they do maximum damage and corner push from almost 3/4ths of the stage away.

DeathAndHealing

 

[Drecker]

Why does nobody b3 off f23 on a close hit for meterless damage, anyway? The timing is basically MMH b3 off db1(MB), you can double-tap the b3 if you can't consistently hit the link. Once you know the recovery of f2,3, this really isn't difficult. If you're not going to learn this, learn the one I posted right above it.

No trait: (j2) f23, b3, j3, 2,2 xx Low Scoop, 3 xx Flying Punch
33% Meterless
37% Jump-in

Trait: (j2) f23, b3 xx Trait, j2, 2,2 xx Low Scoop, 3 xx Flying Punch
36% Trait
39% Trait jump-in

DeathAndHealing TONY-T (I'm sure you have higher meterless off f2,3).

 

[M-Aran-X]

Why does nobody b3 off f23 on a close hit for meterless damage, anyway? The timing is basically MMH b3 off db1(MB), you can double-tap the b3 if you can't consistently hit the link. Once you know the recovery of f2,3, this really isn't difficult. If you're not going to learn this, learn the one I posted right above it.

No trait: (j2) f23, b3, j3, 2,2 xx Low Scoop, 3 xx Flying Punch
33% Meterless
37% Jump-in

Trait: (j2) f23, b3 xx Trait, j2, 2,2 xx Low Scoop, 3 xx Flying Punch
36% Trait
39% Trait jump-in

DeathAndHealing TONY-T (I'm sure you have higher meterless off f2,3).

because it doesn't work in every character. An example: hawkgirl. That combo only works in half the cast but against some characters is useless. Why would someone learn that combo when there is a combo that deals the same damage and can be done against the whole cast? is useless to have combos that doesn't work on the whole cast.

 

[xQUANTUMx]

because it doesn't work in every character. An example: hawkgirl. That combo only works in half the cast but against some characters is useless. Why would someone learn that combo when there is a combo that deals the same damage and can be done against the whole cast? is useless to have combos that doesn't work on the whole cast.

what meterless combos do you have? I've been trying to mess around with D2 but that shit scales to a disgusting level

 

[M-Aran-X]

what meterless combos do you have? I've been trying to mess around with D2 but that shit scales to a disgusting level

hmmm it depends on the string. Which string do you wanna use?

 

[xQUANTUMx]

hmmm it depends on the string. Which string do you wanna use?

I was trying to mess around with a j2~111, or maybe other options off of f23, or f2~scoop. I've been picking stages that have bounce interactables like Wayne manor to squeeze out some more meter less damage.

I have a feeling ill need to activate trait with a lot of these, and post nerf maybe use breath to setup 50/50's or faux vortex due to changes. I'm theory fighting here, don't know if any of that will work


Team NRF

 

[Drecker]

because it doesn't work in every character. An example: hawkgirl. That combo only works in half the cast but against some characters is useless. Why would someone learn that combo when there is a combo that deals the same damage and can be done against the whole cast? is useless to have combos that doesn't work on the whole cast.

I very much doubt there are practical combos that do the same meterless damage off f23 without intractables. I really hope I'm wrong, but until it's proven to me I'm going to shake my head.

Did you really just say it's not worth knowing character specific combos? Or even useless to have combos that don't work against everyone? I really hope you meant something else because if not, that might very well be the dumbest thing I've ever read on TYM.

 

[M-Aran-X]

I very much doubt there are practical combos that do the same meterless damage off f23 without intractables. I really hope I'm wrong, but until it's proven to me I'm going to shake my head.

Did you really just say it's not worth knowing character specific combos? Or even useless to have combos that don't work against everyone? I really hope you meant something else because if not, that might very well be the dumbest thing I've ever read on TYM.

yes, it is dumb, specially in this game. Why the hell would someone learn a combo for character specific that only adds 2%? its stupid. Also, do you really think it's only hawkgirl? there is a whole list of characters that you can't do the f23 b3 and i doubt you did the research like I did to know which one works and which one doesn't before considering is crap, specially when the MB version does 1% more.

 

[Drecker]

yes, it is dumb, etc

Why would you learn a character specific combo that does more damage than non-character specific combos? The same reason you optimize your damage in every other game: to do them on those characters. I don't understand how optimizing your character is stupid - anything other than optimal damage is lazy and bad. Having character-specific matchup knowledge is one of the many things that separates good players from average ones.

I never said it's only Hawkgirl; even if it only worked on one character it would be worth using because there's no reason not to do it if you want to do optimal meterless damage in those matchups. In SF4, Honda can only cr.MK>Headbutt on six characters after HHS, does that mean I shouldn't bother learning that link because it only works on 15% of the cast? Abel can't Step Kick > st.Fierce on the entire cast if they're crouching, so I shouldn't even bother learning how to do it? Tons of the Marvel 2 cast have infinites that only work on Sentinel - but that's only one character out of 56 so why should I learn how to do them? Zatanna's infinite isn't worth learning (although I've been told this works on everyone instead of just the big guys now)? SF4 Character-specific unblockable setups and option selects aren't worth learning?

Thanks for pointing out that I didn't leave a list on my other post though; I have it written down and when I get home I'll update it. The fact that you're saying "don't bother optimizing your character" shows me how lazy you are. You get more damage and more corner-carry than any other meterless B&B on the characters it works against - there is literally zero reason NOT to do it if you're doing no-meter trait combos.

Stop being bad and learn how to play this character to his maximum potential.

 

[Clark]

Why does nobody b3 off f23 on a close hit for meterless damage, anyway? The timing is basically MMH b3 off db1(MB), you can double-tap the b3 if you can't consistently hit the link. Once you know the recovery of f2,3, this really isn't difficult. If you're not going to learn this, learn the one I posted right above it.

To be fair, b.3 after f.23 is significantly tighter than MMH's b.3 after MB low scoop. Significantly. MMH's b.3 setup is something like a 5 frame window, Superman's approaches a single frame.

 

[Drecker]

To be fair, b.3 after f.23 is significantly tighter than MMH's b.3 after MB low scoop. Significantly. MMH's b.3 setup is something like a 5 frame window, Superman's approaches a single frame.

Yeah, it's definitely tighter (feels ~a 2-3 frame link) but after ~20 minutes I was able to hit it at the same rate as all my normal offline B&B's.

 

[M-Aran-X]

Why would you learn a character specific combo that does more damage than non-character specific combos? The same reason you optimize your damage in every other game: to do them on those characters. I don't understand how optimizing your character is stupid - anything other than optimal damage is lazy and bad. Having character-specific matchup knowledge is one of the many things that separates good players from average ones.

I never said it's only Hawkgirl; even if it only worked on one character it would be worth using because there's no reason not to do it if you want to do optimal meterless damage in those matchups. In SF4, Honda can only cr.MK>Headbutt on six characters after HHS, does that mean I shouldn't bother learning that link because it only works on 15% of the cast? Abel can't Step Kick > st.Fierce on the entire cast if they're crouching, so I shouldn't even bother learning how to do it? Tons of the Marvel 2 cast have infinites that only work on Sentinel - but that's only one character out of 56 so why should I learn how to do them? Zatanna's infinite isn't worth learning (although I've been told this works on everyone instead of just the big guys now)? SF4 Character-specific unblockable setups and option selects aren't worth learning?

Thanks for pointing out that I didn't leave a list on my other post though; I have it written down and when I get home I'll update it. The fact that you're saying "don't bother optimizing your character" shows me how lazy you are. You get more damage and more corner-carry than any other meterless B&B on the characters it works against - there is literally zero reason NOT to do it if you're doing no-meter trait combos.

Stop being bad and learn how to play this character to his maximum potential.

keep thinking what you want, I bet you don't know even half of what I know about this character. Also, stop talking about corner carry when your combos doesn't even work for that. How I know that? simple, almost everything you posted is basic bnbs well known from before, you don't know even supes resets aside from the basic jd3 cross up. Also, only and idiot would bother to add 2% to a combo in specific character combo when you could use way better set ups. Thanks for your answer, now I know I don't have to share anything. Also, maximum potential? xDD don't make me laught... when you learn something that I don't know you can say that but as long as you keep posting basic day one bnbs well known from the beginning, don't make me laught.

 

[M-Aran-X]

Yeah, it's definitely tighter (feels ~a 2-3 frame link) but after ~20 minutes I was able to hit it at the same rate as all my normal offline B&B's.

to add 2% in a character specific combo. Way to go!

 

[M-Aran-X]

Yeah, it's definitely tighter (feels ~a 2-3 frame link) but after ~20 minutes I was able to hit it at the same rate as all my normal offline B&B's.

You know what? just by my knowledge of this character I'm gonna optimize your character specific combo just in 5 secs.
Oh! and surprise surprise! I manage to do this
no j2: 35% no trait, no meter, no interactable
with j2: 39% no trait, no meter, no interactable

now let's add the df2 ender in order to optimize your damage way more
no j2: 36%
with j2: 40%

Now stop being lazy and optimize your character specific combo like me. If you know so much about this character then optimize your combo just like I did 5 secs ago.

 

[Tony at Home]

So I have a combo that works off a 22-low scoop.

Compared to anything in the guide that starts out with 22-low scoop, it does more damage, even when those combos start out with trait. This combo also has the benefit of activating trait in the middle.

41 %, only 1 bar of meter, mid-screen (not including jump-in), with jump-in it is probably around 43 %!

22-low scoop, 11-trait, f2-frostbreath, b3, j3, 3, flying punch

 

[xQUANTUMx]

Can we quit with the pissing contests and actually collaborate here? Especially with the incoming patch.

M-Aran-X you say there are optimized meterless combos. Awesome. I'd love to hear them if you're willing to share.

So, there's a b3 possible after f23. Great. Not everyone will want to use it. There's more than one way to skin a cat. But thanks for sharing, we need updated combos anyway.


Team NRF

 

[M-Aran-X]

Can we quit with the pissing contests and actually collaborate here? Especially with the incoming patch.

M-Aran-X you say there are optimized meterless combos. Awesome. I'd love to hear them if you're willing to share.

So, there's a b3 possible after f23. Great. Not everyone will want to use it. There's more than one way to skin a cat. But thanks for sharing, we need updated combos anyway.


Team NRF

Don't bother using f23, b3. Even if you can manage 40% with no trait or meter, believe me is a waste of time because that combo is useless in the corner and doesn't work agains way more than half of the cast. Also way to easy to drop that and dropping a combo in a real match can cost you the game.

 

[M-Aran-X]

So I have a combo that works off a 22-low scoop.

Compared to anything in the guide that starts out with 22-low scoop, it does more damage, even when those combos start out with trait. This combo also has the benefit of activating trait in the middle.

41 %, only 1 bar of meter, mid-screen (not including jump-in), with jump-in it is probably around 43 %!

22-low scoop, 11-trait, f2-frostbreath, b3, j3, 3, flying punch

Great combo, but isn't a little bit too hard to miss the second 1? I mean I always do just with one 1 because 11 becomes a little bit harder.