Question - Liu Kang 3 Tiny buffs for liu kang?

[The Celebrity]

I've always thought bicycle kick is dumb.

When it comes to every other move in the game, if you block a high, you're locked into blocking, you can't just "let go" and be good to go. Liu Kang's bicycle is 100% useless because of the properties of him travelling over the opponent. Bicycle should work the same as every other high in this game, you can neutral duck it at the start, but if you block it at the start you're locked in to take the full move on block.

I'd like to see that changed and honestly I don't think it'd be much of a buff since bicycle is already unsafe on block and the EX has a gap in it, more a quality of life change. If that doesn't change, I'd like to see him have the ability to EX bicycle kick on whiff, providing him with the option to do his weird reversal flip shit to blow up people that try neutral ducking it post blocking.

I don't agree with the DB2 change, but I would like to see his D1 changed to 8 frames. There is a huge difference between an 8 frame D1 and 9 frame D1 for Liu... Basically every poke but D3 is terrible and D3 is nothing short of broken in comparison (super low profiles, + on block, etc..). I'd be willing to see D3 taken down a notch (making it -2 or something instead of +1) to have more value given to his D4 and D1.

Overall though, lets be honest here, Liu Kang doesn't need buffs. I just feel like he could use some quality of life changes and value those higher than some other things that I'd personally be willing to get nerfed.

 

[Frenzy]

I've always thought bicycle kick is dumb.

When it comes to every other move in the game, if you block a high, you're locked into blocking, you can't just "let go" and be good to go. Liu Kang's bicycle is 100% useless because of the properties of him travelling over the opponent. Bicycle should work the same as every other high in this game, you can neutral duck it at the start, but if you block it at the start you're locked in to take the full move on block.

I'd like to see that changed and honestly I don't think it'd be much of a buff since bicycle is already unsafe on block and the EX has a gap in it, more a quality of life change.

I don't agree with the DB2 change, but I would like to see his D1 changed to 8 frames. There is a huge difference between an 8 frame D1 and 9 frame D1 for Liu... Basically every poke but D3 is terrible and D3 is nothing short of broken in comparison (super low profiles, + on block, etc..). I'd be willing to see D3 taken down a notch (making it -2 or something instead of +1) to have more value given to his D4 and D1.

D3 would not be used often if it wasn't plus. It's a 12f poke.

 

[Kickbykick]

What do you mean?

I was writing an epistle but your post summarized mine

 

[Frenzy]

I was writing an epistle but your post summarized mine

Oh. By all means, post it!

 

[The Celebrity]

D3 would not be used often if it wasn't plus. It's a 12f poke.

Still super low profiles, is good spacing, very plus on hit and trip guards It being plus promotes bad spammy poke gameplay imo, which is unhealthy online. No low poke should be plus imo. And the idea behind the nerf is to also improve D1 and D4 at the cost of it since they're basically useless atm.

 

[gam224]

Still super low profiles, is good spacing, very plus on hit and trip guards It being plus promotes bad spammy poke gameplay imo, which is unhealthy online. No low poke should be plus imo. And the idea behind the nerf is to also improve D1 and D4 at the cost of it since they're basically useless atm.

You have at least 8 frames to poke out with every move. 11 if they are going for another down 3. It's a problem in lag sure but not with the new netcode

 

[MadeOfMetal]

i don't understand this.. how is there so much threads on well of characters asking for buffs!
when we have a long list of lower tier characters that actually need them, with no attention in the threads?


how about we buff Mileena, Ferra, Goro, Jason, Jacqui, Raiden, Kano some more, (do i need to list all the lower variations)?

we should focus on the lowers getting raised before the uppers get buffs or adjustments!

 

[Frenzy]

Still super low profiles, is good spacing, very plus on hit and trip guards It being plus promotes bad spammy poke gameplay imo, which is unhealthy online. No low poke should be plus imo. And the idea behind the nerf is to also improve D1 and D4 at the cost of it since they're basically useless atm.

If a Kang player spams d3, then he is spamming an 11f poke(after a previous d3 is blocked). Any character can poke out of that. And his d1 and d4(imo) serve a different purpose than d3. D1 is for counterpokes. D4 is for hitting people out of range of his other pokes. D3 is fine. Just make d1 8f.

 

[Kickbykick]

Buff Mileena again? STAHP

@Damaja325

 

[PapaRegadetho]

i don't understand this.. how is there so much threads on well of characters asking for buffs!
when we have a long list of lower tier characters that actually need them, with no attention in the threads?


how about we buff Mileena, Ferra, Goro, Jason, Jacqui, Raiden, Kano some more, (do i need to list all the lower variations)?

we should focus on the lowers getting raised before the uppers get buffs or adjustments!

These are more fixes than buffs, other than people asking to slice off one frame from Liu's d1. Mileena got buffs, all other characters you mentioned will be buffed aswell.

 

[MadeOfMetal]

These are more fixes than buffs, other than people asking to slice one frame from Liu's d1. Mileena got buffs, all other characters you mentioned will be buffed aswell.

i dont think they got buffed enough..... honestly Liu is worlds apart from most the characters im talking about, and many of them got nerfed as well.

maybe some of them climb a few tiers, but that still places them several below Liu. and we still see thread after thread of Buff Quan, Buff Predator, Buff Tremor, Buff Tanya, Buff Liu, while the others sleep at the bottom.


its almost like character loyalists just want the Perfect character. with 8/2 MU's

there has to be risk to some of your characters moves... others wise everyone can just button mash with them and get away with murder

 

[The Celebrity]

You have at least 8 frames to poke out with every move. 11 if they are going for another down 3. It's a problem in lag sure but not with the new netcode

If a Kang player spams d3, then he is spamming an 11f poke(after a previous d3 is blocked). Any character can poke out of that. And his d1 and d4(imo) serve a different purpose than d3. D1 is for counterpokes. D4 is for hitting people out of range of his other pokes. D3 is fine. Just make d1 8f.

Its not about if they can poke out or not, I know they can obviously. Its the fact that its nothing short of unhealthy for the game. GGPO will make it easier to poke out of, but why should you ever be at an advantage after your opponent blocks a poke? D3 is stacked and D1 is useless, thats a fact. NRS should not help D1 without knocking D3 a bit, especially on a character as strong as Liu. Having an 8F D1 gets Liu out of all kinds of messes he previously had trouble with, he needs it, but he shouldn't get that for nothing.

Remove whats dumb and benefits poor play. Add what he needs and benefits smart play.

 

[gam224]

i don't understand this.. how is there so much threads on well of characters asking for buffs!
when we have a long list of lower tier characters that actually need them, with no attention in the threads?


how about we buff Mileena, Ferra, Goro, Jason, Jacqui, Raiden, Kano some more, (do i need to list all the lower variations)?

we should focus on the lowers getting raised before the uppers get buffs or adjustments!

Ferra, Jacqui and Kano aren't so bad.

 

[gam224]

Its not about if they can poke out or not, I know they can obviously. Its the fact that its nothing short of unhealthy for the game. GGPO will make it easier to poke out of, but why should you ever be at an advantage after your opponent blocks a poke? D3 is stacked and D1 is useless, thats a fact. NRS should not help D1 without knocking D3 a bit, especially on a character as strong as Liu. Having an 8F D1 gets Liu out of all kinds of messes he previously had trouble with, he needs it, but he shouldn't get that for nothing.

Remove whats dumb and benefits poor play. Add what he needs and benefits smart play.

Point taken

 

[MadeOfMetal]

Ferra, Jacqui and Kano aren't so bad.

i agree but they are no liu or quan or HQT or REKKKA REKKA

simply put i doubt those 3 get 20% chip off a simple input that you simply alter the ending to make a guessing game thats unreadable to continue more chip pressure.

 

[gam224]

i dont think they got buffed enough..... honestly Liu is worlds apart from most the characters im talking about, and many of them got nerfed as well.

maybe some of them climb a few tiers, but that still places them several below Liu. and we still see thread after thread of Buff Quan, Buff Predator, Buff Tremor, Buff Tanya, Buff Liu, while the others sleep at the bottom.


its almost like character loyalists just want the Perfect character. with 8/2 MU's

there has to be risk to some of your characters moves... others wise everyone can just button mash with them and get away with murder

I understand strengths and weaknesses but the 9 frame d1 is a pretty big problem. He can't enforce his plus frames while getting bullied by others.

 

[MadeOfMetal]

I understand strengths and weaknesses but the 9 frame d1 is a pretty big problem. He can't enforce his plus frames while getting bullied by others.

thats prblem is fixed by changing what he ends it with,, remember not all his options are foiled by a poke

 

[gam224]

i agree but they are no liu or quan or HQT or REKKKA REKKA

simply put i doubt those 3 get 20% chip off a simple input that you simply alter the ending to make a guessing game thats unreadable to continue more chip pressure.

No they aren't but that doesn't excuse liu's incredibly poor frame data

 

[PapaRegadetho]

i dont think they got buffed enough..... honestly Liu is worlds apart from most the characters im talking about, and many of them got nerfed as well.

maybe some of them climb a few tiers, but that still places them several below Liu. and we still see thread after thread of Buff Quan, Buff Predator, Buff Tremor, Buff Tanya, Buff Liu, while the others sleep at the bottom.


its almost like character loyalists just want the Perfect character. with 8/2 MU's

there has to be risk to some of your characters moves... others wise everyone can just button mash with them and get away with murder

I just want my shit to actually work, like intended. I don;t know how much of the others got buffed, but I know Mileena is doing quite well in the beta and so does Kano.

 

[gam224]

thats prblem is fixed by changing what he ends it with,, remember not all his options are foiled by a poke

I have tried doing things like 111 dragon's roar but it doesn't work it's reactable. Without run cancels his mix ups are sub par. This is made up for in chip in FF but not in dualist.

 

[MadeOfMetal]

No they aren't but that doesn't excuse liu's incredibly poor frame data

look im not hating on him.. i would love for all characters to get buffs, but as it stands, he has options for those flaws he has.... honestly lets say they guess right and poke, god forbid one of the best zoning rushdown characters has to back off and zone for a bit... he has the long range tools to keep pressure, imo every character nheeds some flaws.

every character that has these guess options has some risk to them, or at least should.

imagine if i asked predator to have faster startups... he might make a new tier.

not that im saying liu is that great, just saying he deserves some risk for his chip reward

 

[EMPR_MURK]

Its not about if they can poke out or not, I know they can obviously. Its the fact that its nothing short of unhealthy for the game. GGPO will make it easier to poke out of, but why should you ever be at an advantage after your opponent blocks a poke? D3 is stacked and D1 is useless, thats a fact. NRS should not help D1 without knocking D3 a bit, especially on a character as strong as Liu. Having an 8F D1 gets Liu out of all kinds of messes he previously had trouble with, he needs it, but he shouldn't get that for nothing.

Remove whats dumb and benefits poor play. Add what he needs and benefits smart play.

D3 being plus 1 is to make up for his terrible normals.

 

[gam224]

D3 being plus 1 is to make up for his terrible normals.

Meant to tag you BTW

 

[gam224]

look im not hating on him.. i would love for all characters to get buffs, but as it stands, he has options for those flaws he has.... honestly lets say they guess right and poke, god forbid one of the best zoning rushdown characters has to back off and zone for a bit... he has the long range tools to keep pressure, imo every character nheeds some flaws.

every character that has these guess options has some risk to them, or at least should.

imagine if i asked predator to have faster startups... he might make a new tier.

not that im saying liu is that great, just saying he deserves some risk for his chip reward

I agree but he already has a big weakness in DF and that's sub par wakeup. You could say a character like bojutsu kung jin or even cut throat kano has no real flaws. He gains better armour but loses mix up potential/ damage in flame fist which is a good showing of the variation system.

 

[Frenzy]

Its not about if they can poke out or not, I know they can obviously. Its the fact that its nothing short of unhealthy for the game. GGPO will make it easier to poke out of, but why should you ever be at an advantage after your opponent blocks a poke? D3 is stacked and D1 is useless, thats a fact. NRS should not help D1 without knocking D3 a bit, especially on a character as strong as Liu. Having an 8F D1 gets Liu out of all kinds of messes he previously had trouble with, he needs it, but he shouldn't get that for nothing.

Remove whats dumb and benefits poor play. Add what he needs and benefits smart play.

You said kang shouldn't get an 8f d1 for nothing. I'm not sure if you're aware but an 8f d1 doesn't just "enforce his plus frames"; it also stops him from getting poke infinited by Goro and Ferra/Torr. Why should kang be nerfed even further for not getting infinited?