Strategy - Mileena 10/04 mileena change discussion

[BeastOfManila]

UPDATED OPENING POST WITH ACTUAL CHANGE LOG from WB forums

• Mileena - combo damage scaling adjustments and increases
• Mileena - Away+FP now hits high and starts up in 10 frames (down from 15)
• Mileena - Flip n' Roll no longer recovers in time to juggle the opponent
• Mileena - Flip n' Roll can now be enhanced to roll backwards allowing for a juggle
• Mileena (Piercing) - Away+FP now hits high and starts up in 10 frames (down from 11)
• No changes for rav and ethereal (??)

Source: http://community.wbgames.com/t5/Latest-Updates/Patch-Notes-10-4-16/ba-p/1297392

Unless the patchnotes are incomplete as of this time, still think Mileena's "useless now"?

high hitting but faster b1 (all variations)
Not sure about the impact of piercing f1 string
I dunno how bad the scaling is
Flip n Roll nerf is kinda bad but I guess still livable(?)

EDIT: sorry...derped on the b12 being untouched.

 

[Scott The Scot]

I do see a buff to encourge Yolo rolling tho.

What if they increased Mileenas hurtbox and decreased the hitbox when in the ball state though?

 

[Skedar70]

Its a nasty nerf it the properties are the same for a standing opponent. It means she will require meter in order to do her combos since roll is the only special she has that launches into a combo. This will hurt ethereal the most since she does use meter for ex fade.

 

[Fellow_Swordsman]

Its a nasty nerf it the properties are the same for a standing opponent. It means she will require meter in order to do her combos since roll is the only special she has that launches into a combo. This will hurt ethereal the most since she does use meter for ex fade.

This nerf makes sense for Piercing since she constantly sits on meter without even thinking about it, but you're right, this could potentially hurt her other two variations. We'll just have to wait and see.

 

[BeastOfManila]

Quotings a pain on my BlackBerry so ill just tag

@Scott The Scot @Skedar70


Agreed; touching "normal roll" outside aa is gamechanging. Did I miss another post stating this is the case? (cross fingers)

 

[just_2swift]

Its a nasty nerf it the properties are the same for a standing opponent. It means she will require meter in order to do her combos since roll is the only special she has that launches into a combo. This will hurt ethereal the most since she does use meter for ex fade.

Maybe fade has links now

 

[leoj89]

If this just effects aa and raw rolls fine. But if it effects how this character primarily combo's then the Mileena community is in for some growing pains .

 

[Damaja325]

i'm having a very hard time accepting this change since there are literally a handful of ways to solve her meter building and damage issues. clearly, they want us to use bar if we want damage. fine, i can live with that. but why not just nerf the damage of certain strings and enders to solve the issue? with this change her combo ability has been hit universally. if roll doesn't even allow a b12 restand or b12 sai/roll then her meterless damage is going to be non-existent. 35% meterless i can agree is excessive but this change itself is excessive and not the proper way to handle it. ethereal is pretty much trash if she doesn't receive something else to compensate. it's looking grim for mileena because we all know this nerf isn't the only nerf she'll receive. sigh...

 

[Wolverine32]

So this is the gif

I see:
- Mileena hitting an airborne kano
- I notice the height of kano after being hit by aa roll‎
- What looks like a mb to roll back

I don't see the ruckus on nerfing roll's aa properties; sure, no more big damage from an aa, but where is the other talk on an overall nerf coming from?

I do see a buff to encourge Yolo rolling tho.


(really...I'm serious...I don't see why this is a backbreaking nerf unless I'm missing something). ‎



Thanks in adv!

I think the approach they're going to take is one in terms of her needing more meter to get the same damage this way. she still has other great aa's in u3 and b1 (piercing)/b3. I only hope you don't need to mb ex roll again making it a 2 bar launcher if you want to make mixups worth anything. I won't say anything concrete about their not being armor on it since we don't know for sure what is happening to armor, but if you wake up ex roll, and have to mb it to get a combo off of it, that seems like too much. As far as yolo rolling, it may be similar to takeda's bf2, it can't be mb'd on block but can be on hit. If you can spend a bar to make it safe that may be okay, but I don't think that will happen. i think it will end up being a lot like takeda's bf2. ex has armor and launches, while the regular version is a kd unless mb'd.

 

[Rathalos]

It looks goofy.

 

[llxPeeKABooxll]

Looks like MK2 roll combos. Iconic

 

[Gooberking]

It kind of seems like we need to see more before totally flipping out. We aren't seeing what actually happens to a grounded opponent. We also don't know how this fits into the context of other changes for her or the game at large. All we really know is she can spend a bar to extend a roll.

Roll is pretty integral to her basic combo game so I'm not sure they can totally take it away without doing some other things to keep her functional. It also seems cruel if they were making Derek break the news that they killed his girl. That doesn't mean anything, and I guess it is MK so maybe that would be fitting.

That said, I may put on hold all of my recent Mileena refreshing until I know what is actually going on. No point in drilling on stuff that isn't going to work in a few days.

 

[BeastOfManila]

hmmm. i guess it's the usual NRS players' knee jerk reaction?

i see the "aa roll nerf"...but cries that she'll be useless? guess we need to see upcoming patch notes to be sure.

(still hoping for an u4 move from her 21u4 string....MK9 u4 if they're generous. lolz)

 

[Yoaks]

I don't see the reason why they would give Mileena a mb extension for Roll, when she already has that with u3mb.

If they wanted to nerf her meterless damage, than just scale the damage on her enders in Piercing so she would be forced to use u3mb to get over 30%.

Will just have to wait and see what else they have in store for Mileena come next week.

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

I do see a buff to encourge Yolo rolling tho.

Oh man why didn't you tag me in your post?

 

[Akromaniac27]

This nerf makes sense for Piercing since she constantly sits on meter without even thinking about it, but you're right, this could potentially hurt her other two variations. We'll just have to wait and see.

Honestly, Ravenous sits on meter just as well as Piercing, if not more. Ethereal is barely behind and only because it doesn't get a guaranteed cancel like high pounce, unless you wanna cancel blockstrings into standing sai, which would then give her about the same meter gain as the other two.

IF the roll change means you need meter for full bnbs, it's not gonna hurt her that badly tbh, even in the other variations. From the looks of it, height and distance wise, you can still get a ratchet d2 after. I mean most mileenas, for whatever reason do that bnb anyways lol, so what's the big deal.

Ravenous can still get 20-30% bnbs with high pounce without even needing to roll and it can probably even link 21 or d1 after the new roll midscreen for basically the same damage.

Ethereal doesn't seem to suffer that much from this if you're always storing your meter in the first place. Sure you can be "offensive" with Ethereal if you feel like cancelling and burning bar all day, but no one is making you play that way and killing your meter when you can safely and efficiently turtle and zone from fullscreen.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

I don't think she will be able to connect anything at all afterwards since she is so far away + there's gotta be a recovery time. We say the MB'd version but we'd have to see the non-MB version too.
So let's wait and see.

 

[Tweedy]

Her meterless midscreen damage = not balanced

Her ability to build meter without a need to use it = not balanced

Seems like balancing to me.

 

[Eddy Wang]

 

[DarksydeDash]

Something that you all should think about is that yes, this would require her to spend a bar for a launching special, but what if they give her a new launching string OR even speed up her f343 string?

 

[Akromaniac27]

Her meterless midscreen damage = not balanced

Her ability to build meter without a need to use it = not balanced

Seems like balancing to me.

Damn near everyone in the roster can build meter like it's free, and MOST don't need it either. What about them? Ridiculous rushdown like D'Vorah, Cage, Kang, Kano, etc. are ALL done without needing any meter, and they can zone on top of it too. Just because other characters CAN use meter to enhance their play, doesn't mean that they have to, and it doesn't mean that they "need" their meter build either.

It's not like it's Harley from IGAU with MB cupcakes because the meterless version wasn't gonna cut it on its own. This game has meterless specials that do a lot as is, and spending meter brings it to 0 to 100 when it isn't even necessary to begin with

 

[Akromaniac27]

Her meterless midscreen damage = not balanced

Her ability to build meter without a need to use it = not balanced

Seems like balancing to me.

I'm not opposed to her normalizing, because she needs it, just like EVERYONE else in one department or more, but do you actually know the bnbs the roster dishes out? Everyone hits just as hard as mileena does, some hit harder and off of 50/50s whereas hers is a mid. You can talk about the restand midscreen that guarantees nothing to her other than plus frames, so now what about Cage, Cassie, Imposter Shinnok, Scorpion, Smoke, Kano, etc. that have restands ANYWHERE and are guaranteed pressure that you have to hold.

People act like she's the only one with 35% meterless bnbs, like she's the only one that doesn't HAVE to use meter, like she's the only one with a restand, like she's the only one with a 50/50 (meter dependent and both options unsafe mind you), like she's the only one with oki, like she's the only one with an amazing corner game, like she's the only one to have all of this in one.

 

[Tweedy]

Damn near everyone in the roster can build meter like it's free, and MOST don't need it either. What about them? Ridiculous rushdown like D'Vorah, Cage, Kang, Kano, etc. are ALL done without needing any meter, and they can zone on top of it too. Just because other characters CAN use meter to enhance their play, doesn't mean that they have to, and it doesn't mean that they "need" their meter build either.

It's not like it's Harley from IGAU with MB cupcakes because the meterless version wasn't gonna cut it on its own. This game has meterless specials that do a lot as is, and spending meter brings it to 0 to 100 when it isn't even necessary to begin with

Mileena is the biggest culprit by far. You can't compare things in a box. This is almost as ugly as when you compared Scorpion to Mileena because they do similar damage.

Kano does have to use meter to get much midscreen, unless he lands a clean F212, same with Cage. I don't even understand why Liu Kang is listed. Meterburn fly kick? Meterburn bicycle kick? He needs to use meter to continue pressure and to get big damage, off of a lot of stuff.

D'vorah is the only comparable character that you listed, but she doesn't have an armored launcher that she'll have the threat of, when she holds on to all of that meter that she doesn't need.

Demo is actually a fair comparison to Mileena, when it comes to meter build and the lack of a need to use it. Both are pretty busted lol.

 

[Akromaniac27]

Mileena is the biggest culprit by far. You can't compare things in a box. This is almost as ugly as when you compared Scorpion to Mileena because they do similar damage.

Kano does have to use meter to get much midscreen, unless he lands a clean F212, same with Cage. I don't even understand why Liu Kang is listed. Meterburn fly kick? Meterburn bicycle kick? He needs to use meter to continue pressure and to get big damage, off of a lot of stuff.

D'vorah is the only comparable character that you listed, but she doesn't have an armored launcher that she'll have the threat of, when she holds on to all of that meter that she doesn't need.

Demo is actually a fair comparison to Mileena, when it comes to meter build and the lack of a need to use it. Both are pretty busted lol.

None of those characters HAVE to use meter. It's not like they HAVE to use said special such as bicycle kick, or hellsparks, or knife tosses, etc. It's a perk that are ABLE to have the choice to continue pressure and on top of that, they can patch it up by spending a bar. They are nowhere near Leatherface status where if they don't spend a bar, they only do 15% on hit, or Pyromancer status where if she has no meter, her pressure game is completely moot.

 

[Akromaniac27]

Mileena is the biggest culprit by far. You can't compare things in a box. This is almost as ugly as when you compared Scorpion to Mileena because they do similar damage.

Kano does have to use meter to get much midscreen, unless he lands a clean F212, same with Cage. I don't even understand why Liu Kang is listed. Meterburn fly kick? Meterburn bicycle kick? He needs to use meter to continue pressure and to get big damage, off of a lot of stuff.

D'vorah is the only comparable character that you listed, but she doesn't have an armored launcher that she'll have the threat of, when she holds on to all of that meter that she doesn't need.

Demo is actually a fair comparison to Mileena, when it comes to meter build and the lack of a need to use it. Both are pretty busted lol.

So by your logic, we can't compare similar tools now? Even when they do the same thing? We can't compare restands, damage, low profiling (which EVERYONE can do, hit the lab, and maybe you'll learn a little something), oki, corner game, etc.? We can't compare startup and frame data of similar tools to see who has it better?

You seem to be misguided between meter dependence and spending meter capabilities. None of the characters are like Zatanna. Their strings, specials and normals on default can already win them matches as they are. It's a PERK that they can spend meter to significantly enhance the already viable specials to continue making it their turn while the opponent has to hold it.