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Do you consider out gearing your opponent fair?

DeftMonk

DeftMonk

Noob
EntropicByDesign said:
I agree largely with what you're saying.. but, just because I have gear, doesnt mean I did anything to earn it.

Case in point, right now, my PS4 is running an Endless AI tower with Ivy to level her. I have it set to AI, AI set to 30 in Rushdown and Combo. I have my fightstick plugged in with its turbo option on, mashing X like a maniac... So at the end of each match my fight stick just clicks AI Ivy into the next match. It'll go until she loses, which with most characters is 30~ matches in. I use the same technique to beat towers and multiverse stuff. It also auto-rematches when it loses in regular towers (endless obviously backs back out and if I dont stop it, chooses endless again, picks player controlled Batman, and then just mashes his st.3 until it loses, which is actually about 4-5 matches in.. though once it made it to around 8.

Why am I doing this? To collect gear for no reason other than random cosmetics, unlock shaders and level characters when Im not actually playing the game. It takes, I dunno, counting loading times, 1-2m to get her running a new tower when one is beat so if my GF or niece arent using my PS and I feel like it, I set it up and let it grind away. I *SHOULD* have friggen abused the 30m to lv20 strategy more heavily and gotten everyone there instead of like a third of the cast.. but they patched it out. =[

Im not posting this to brag about a bunch of pointless gear, I play exclusively pre-arranged sets so its not something that affects me. I'm just saying that just because someone has a bunch of crazy gear it doesnt necessarily mean they earned it, lol. Ive NEVER played a match against another player with Aqua, Adam or Deadshot and I have gear sets that give them 2900-3000+ str and abil with 2500~ Def lol.
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lol I got all my chars to 20 this way. Because of this.... my matches played with batman is some absurd number haha
 
S

Savage8-8

Noob
24K said:
Exactly. I don't want them to play with gear if I don't. Just as they force me to play with gear on against my will.
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So if the shoe was on the other foot and gear was off by default on release, what you would say to people who want to use gear? Tough shit?

24K said:
According to the stats the majority are playing gear on, I assume that's mostly against their will. But assumption aside, this indicates that the minority want gear off, so forcing players to turn gear on is a better option than turning gear off.
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There is no "assumption aside". This entire statement is an assumption.
So since the majority of people play with gear on your instant thought is that they are being forced and would like it off? That doesn't make any sense.

24K said:
Because I will be able to always play gear off, and the people I play against can have a game against me with their gear forced to be off and then go back to gear on with the majority. Its unfair that the minority must play more games in the way they don't want to and the majority never have to play against their preferred option at all.

I don't think its fair.
A noob will jump on thinking he has some Godlike gear, refuse to turn it off and I do some average combo that rapes with the extra damage. And he runs away with some shitty defeated attitude. Making him sour against me and the game. Its hard enough trying to balance total noob annihilation and giving them a chance to make sure the community doesn't fall to pieces because we aren't holding on to the newer players. The added gear I am forced to use makes it impossible for a noob to do shit.
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Your looking at this the wrong way. Your coming from a stance where you think the game mode is unfair JUST bc YOU dont want to use gear. What i am telling you is that the game mode was MADE for people to use their gear. This was intentional.

My whole point is to focus on expanding competitive play. Not taking away something that most or some people already enjoy. You don't know that the majority want to play without gear. Leave the option...give us a new one should be the correct perspective IMO.
 
S

Savage8-8

Noob
EntropicByDesign said:
I agree largely with what you're saying.. but, just because I have gear, doesnt mean I did anything to earn it.

Case in point, right now, my PS4 is running an Endless AI tower with Ivy to level her. I have it set to AI, AI set to 30 in Rushdown and Combo. I have my fightstick plugged in with its turbo option on, mashing X like a maniac... So at the end of each match my fight stick just clicks AI Ivy into the next match. It'll go until she loses, which with most characters is 30~ matches in. I use the same technique to beat towers and multiverse stuff. It also auto-rematches when it loses in regular towers (endless obviously backs back out and if I dont stop it, chooses endless again, picks player controlled Batman, and then just mashes his st.3 until it loses, which is actually about 4-5 matches in.. though once it made it to around 8.

Why am I doing this? To collect gear for no reason other than random cosmetics, unlock shaders and level characters when Im not actually playing the game. It takes, I dunno, counting loading times, 1-2m to get her running a new tower when one is beat so if my GF or niece arent using my PS and I feel like it, I set it up and let it grind away. I *SHOULD* have friggen abused the 30m to lv20 strategy more heavily and gotten everyone there instead of like a third of the cast.. but they patched it out. =[

Im not posting this to brag about a bunch of pointless gear, I play exclusively pre-arranged sets so its not something that affects me. I'm just saying that just because someone has a bunch of crazy gear it doesnt necessarily mean they earned it, lol. Ive NEVER played a match against another player with Aqua, Adam or Deadshot and I have gear sets that give them 2900-3000+ str and abil with 2500~ Def lol.
Click to expand...

Yeah as far as the earning goes for gear its stupid easy to get. Ill concede that. Didn't realize about the AI option before i posted that. But my main point was its still equal opportunity. The next man has the same options you do to get gear. Even if you use turbo and AI lol.
 
Drag_Luke

Drag_Luke

Noob
The problem is starting with gear loaded cause it gives an advantage to unfair players.
Example:
I want to play some sets with my level 5 Joker cause i learnt some combos and he looks fine. Well, chance is the opponent will pick a lv 20 fighter with over 2500 stats and will refuse comp mode, making the game pointless and a waste of time.

It's simple: there should be a Mode for casual sets with competitive mode by default.
And obviously one to run with gear on to try if your new 4000str Bane is cool or not.
 
EntropicByDesign

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
Savage8-8 said:
Yeah as far as the earning goes for gear its stupid easy to get. Ill concede that. Didn't realize about the AI option before i posted that. But my main point was its still equal opportunity. The next man has the same options you do to get gear. Even if you use turbo and AI lol.
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Agreed. =]
 
Marlow

Marlow

Premium Supporter
Premium Supporter
I can see where it's frustrating to be outgeared, but let's not make a mountain out of a mole hill. Worst case scenerio, you lose a meaningless game to a faceless stranger and choose not to rematch. It takes what, a couple minutes? Hopefully they add re-match to Ranked, but until then I'm fine with Gear being default on in Casual mode. That's what it's there for.
 
wsj515

wsj515

This is my billionth life cycle.
I just discovered the ridiculousness that is Adam with Batman trait (Seth strike ability). Don't turn gear on unless you want to hold plus on block meterless dive kicks that can be converted into big damage.
 
Flamelurkr

Flamelurkr

Noob
To be honest I believe the gear stat will always be on by default because the people that care about gear(casual players) are more likely to spend money on the game long term. They will spend the money for crystals(which basically disappear after lvl 60) to auto level for level 20 gear. They will always find satisfaction in there character being stronger than yours and maybe its not so bad to let people that casually play the game have this "advantage" because they make up more of NRS' profit than we do.
 
Eric The Scruffy

Eric The Scruffy

Noob
In short: no it isn't fair, which is why I will immediately quit if you refuse to turn on competitive mode. I don't have the time in my schedule to screw around with Injustice 2 "rainbow edition".

As for the other discussion going on: said it before and I'll say it again,

The problem is *not* whether competitive or gear stats are default. The problem here is that NRS *never* should have placed this as an option to be selected at the character select screen to begin with.

What they should have done is had 3 options to play online. Ranked (gear stats turned off), player match (gear turned on, always), and Player Competitive (same as player match, but gear turned off, always).

There. Problem solved. Casual players get to enjoy their crazy shenanigans all day long and hardcore players get to play with like minded folk.
 
Cashual

Cashual

PSN: Cansuela
24K said:
I absolutely hate the gear system. I play one character and have her geared up because I like the look. But so many people wont turn the gear off and I end up winning because my gear is better. Then they don't rematch and I sit another 10 minutes looking for a game for the same thing to happen. I don't care if somebody wit better gear beats me. They generally rematch and I get some play time in. But when I win because of gear it makes me want to stop playing. I am in no way getting better, just getting stronger. I don't care how unfair or fair the loser feels it is for the gear to be on, I only care about how unfair it is that It is helping me. I have made a character with base gear, but hate using them because they look day 1.

It gets so bad that I will just give up trying to win and focus on beating my opponent in ridiculous ways. I had a dude start every combo with a jump in. So I only used air to air kicks to beat him. Then he ran away and I sent him a message asking why he didn't rematch me. And he told me because all I do is jump kick. There are to many low level players for mid level players to get any good games in. And the gear just makes it even more harder.
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Hey I'm a step up from your average online scrub, but not great, it'd be cool to get games on PS4. Psn: cansuela
 
T

TaserFace007

Noob
I don't think that playing with gear on is any more unfair than playing a war game with a sniper rifle or plasma blaster when other people only have pistols. It's part of the game and if you've managed to better take advantage of it through luck, grinding or skill than someone else, then more power to you.

Saying it's unfair is like saying the game should randomize the speed of moves so that those players who have the time and energy to study start up frames and gaps can't "cheat" against those who play casually for half an hour after putting the kids to bed. That's part of the game and some people take advantage of it better than others and have an advantage in matches as a result.

Now, that being said, competitive mode is essentially a different game than geared mode and the two sections should be partitioned online so there's no on-off switch which players have to agree on one way or the other.
 
T

TaserFace007

Noob
I think it's better to have two completely different sections, each with their own ranked, player, KOH, rooms, etc in them. That way, each group can play how they want and not have to worry about the other guy flashing up some stupid screen they don't care about or doing 900 damage with one punch. Just separate the two modes entirely.
 
I

Igniz13

Noob
That's
TaserFace007 said:
I don't think that playing with gear on is any more unfair than playing a war game with a sniper rifle or plasma blaster when other people only have pistols. It's part of the game and if you've managed to better take advantage of it through luck, grinding or skill than someone else, then more power to you.

Saying it's unfair is like saying the game should randomize the speed of moves so that those players who have the time and energy to study start up frames and gaps can't "cheat" against those who play casually for half an hour after putting the kids to bed. That's part of the game and some people take advantage of it better than others and have an advantage in matches as a result.

Now, that being said, competitive mode is essentially a different game than geared mode and the two sections should be partitioned online so there's no on-off switch which players have to agree on one way or the other.
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That example is literally unfair. Unless everyone has an equal chance to get better weapons, it's completely unfair.

Guess what, the gear generation system in injustice 2 is completely unfair because it's all rng. It is like getting the plasma rifle for free at random
 
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TaserFace007

Noob
But everyone has an equal chance to get stuff, even though it's RNG. Anything with different pieces of equipment is dependent on luck. That doesn't equate to unfair, though, since no players are given better odds of dropping stuff. If it were a pay-to-play model and you could spend cash for superior stuff, then that would be unfair. Someone happening to be luckier than you on an ability or gear drop when you had the same odds of luck does not.
 
S

Savage8-8

Noob
I feel like im being trolled lol. If everyone has the same odds.....its fair...period. Even if its RNG....its RNG for EVERYONE...jeez. Just say what you guys mean. You don't like gear. That would actually make more sense then this unfair shit.
 
I

Igniz13

Noob
Savage8-8 said:
I feel like im being trolled lol. If everyone has the same odds.....its fair...period. Even if its RNG....its RNG for EVERYONE...jeez. Just say what you guys mean. You don't like gear. That would actually make more sense then this unfair shit.
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No, it's not. You only need to win the lottery once. If you win before others, you have an unfair advantage. Other people may never win the lottery and they can't do anything to improve their odds.

Then, even if they get a win, it may not be an even win. You may get a crappy item, or a worse one. You don't even have equal probability of getting an equal item.

Then there's shit like multiverse events that give rare gear. Not only might you miss an event for your character, the gear you get when you do won't be the same as other people who did the event.

I imagine everyone has a rare set for wonder woman, because of the movie tie in multiverse event, but if you play captain cold, you might be waiting a while.

There's so many levels of rng it's absolute garbage
 
T

TaserFace007

Noob
That doesn't make any sense. It's like saying that if someone gets pocket aces in the first hand of a poker game then the rest of the game is unfair because he now has a bigger stack than everyone else and can just bully the pot.

Yes, his early lucky draw of a good hand means that he has extra chips which he can use as an additional tool which the rest of the table cannot yet use, but he had the same odds of that early luck as everyone else so it's not in any way unfair of him to take advantage of that early luck, because that kind of situation is actually part of the game.

Similarly, everyone has the same odds of getting good gear. The fact that some people get better stuff earlier by virtue of randomness doesn't mean they're being unfair by using that advantage because getting better gear is part of the game. This is a game which has gear as a part of it. People using that part of the game to as much of an advantage as they can is no more an example of them playing the game unfairly than someone is being unfair by studying frame data and labbing match ups in practice mode and then playing against someone who hasn't done that. Both situations give one player an advantage in a fight but neither of them translate into an unfair advantage.
 
Flamelurkr

Flamelurkr

Noob
Saboteur-6 said:
Do you not know what random means? That's like saying everyone has the same chance of winning the lottery. No.
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Everyone does have the same chance of winning the lottery lol only thing that could change that is money for tickets and that's equivalent to time spent playing the game, which again makes everything fair. Random but fair
 
Saboteur-6

Saboteur-6

Filthy Casual
Flamelurkr said:
Everyone does have the same chance of winning the lottery lol only thing that could change that is money for tickets and that's equivalent to time spent playing the game, which again makes everything fair. Random but fair
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I'm going to clearly state my position towards the OP:

Yes it's "fair" in the sense that you're choosing to play a game mode that has critical game mechanics linked to earnable RNG gear drops. This means you're going to be in positions where your playing at an imbalance.

This is an argument of semantics between "fair" and "balanced".
 
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TaserFace007

Noob
Saboteur-6 said:
Do you not know what random means? That's like saying everyone has the same chance of winning the lottery. No.
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I don't understand what you're trying to say here. Every ticket bought for a lottery has an equal chance to be the winning ticket. It's random which one it will be, but that randomness is spread equally amongst all participants.
 
Flamelurkr

Flamelurkr

Noob
Saboteur-6 said:
I'm going to clearly state my position towards the OP:

Yes it's "fair" in the sense that you're choosing to play a game mode that has critical game mechanics linked to earnable RNG gear drops. This means you're going to be in positions where your playing at an imbalance.

This is an argument of semantics between "fair" and "balanced".
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I see. My fault
 
Adorkable_Psycho

Adorkable_Psycho

Hands Quicker Than The Eye Boi!
Yeah took a loss to a Subzero with maxed out gear earlier because he would'nt turn on competitive. My normal BnBs were doing like half of the normal damage while his were doing like 600+. That was not a good time for me.
 
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