Match-up Discussion Hawkgirl Matchup Discussion

[TarkatanDentist]

Tossing maces at Raven is not a good idea, especially if she has meter. She can easily Empty Void them on reaction, and meter burn into an unblockable projectile to knock you out of the air.

 

[TrulyAmiracle]

True, but you can also MB the Mace toss and have her waste the meter and eat the shoulder charge, it goes back and forth. Having meter makes both sides a bit more careful as you can in a sense trade bars to cancel each other's options. Its an odd MU lol.

 

[TarkatanDentist]

True, but you can also MB the Mace toss and have her waste the meter and eat the shoulder charge, it goes back and forth. Having meter makes both sides a bit more careful as you can in a sense trade bars to cancel each other's options. Its an odd MU lol.

That's a massive risk for not all that great a reward though - if you hit, you deal 10% damage. If they block it, they get a free 40% combo AND they can safely transition into Demon Stance.

Flight is pretty useful in this MU, but only if you have the life lead - Aerial Mace Toss should be limited to when you see them transitioning into Demon Stance. Mace Charge is good here though - it works great as a wake-up tool, and of course it can help with avoiding Negative Mass mix-ups. And d1 > any close-up tool Raven has. And since no Raven worth their salt is going to be using Soul Crush up close, Mace Charge becomes much more viable.

Basically get the life lead at close range, then use Flight to force her to go on the offense once you have that lead.

I'm inclined to think that it might be 50-50, actually.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

That's a massive risk for not all that great a reward though - if you hit, you deal 10% damage. If they block it, they get a free 40% combo AND they can safely transition into Demon Stance.

Flight is pretty useful in this MU, but only if you have the life lead - Aerial Mace Toss should be limited to when you see them transitioning into Demon Stance. Mace Charge is good here though - it works great as a wake-up tool, and of course it can help with avoiding Negative Mass mix-ups. And d1 > any close-up tool Raven has. And since no Raven worth their salt is going to be using Soul Crush up close, Mace Charge becomes much more viable.

Basically get the life lead at close range, then use Flight to force her to go on the offense once you have that lead.

I'm inclined to think that it might be 50-50, actually.

It is 5-5

 

[Boodendorf]

Things to be added:
Vs Lex:
j.2 stuffs air charge (This might work against other charges, such as zod charge and mace charge, testing are necessary)

Vs Batman:
b23 4 is punishable with a reversal mace charge after the second hit of b23, but it's impossible online so don't even try. Have fun offline with it though.

Vs Raven:
Her fullscreen special grab thing can be avoided with we, need more testing to see if I can pull this out constantly.


Is the first post ever going to be edited? What was the point of somebody not ever visiting the HG threads to make this thread? lol.

 

[Espio]

Things to be added:
Vs Lex:
j.2 stuffs air charge (This might work against other charges, such as zod charge and mace charge, testing are necessary)

Vs Batman:
b23 4 is punishable with a reversal mace charge after the second hit of b23, but it's impossible online so don't even try. Have fun offline with it though.

Vs Raven:
Her fullscreen special grab thing can be avoided with we, need more testing to see if I can pull this out constantly.


Is the first post ever going to be edited? What was the point of somebody not ever visiting the HG threads to make this thread? lol.

We should all get together and provide our insight on some of her match ups or divide up some of the ones we have the most experience with (for example, I have a lot versus Lex and Wonder Woman while you might have a lot versus Black Adam and things like that).

I haven't edited it because while I have a lot of opinions on her match ups, I don't wanna speak for everyone, but I'd be happy to help get the ball rolling on that very soon .

Should we also potentially include match footage of some explanations in action if at all possible? I dunno just brainstorming.

RunwayMafia Eternal Blaze Tan Tiger Wong Jon Berg @Everyone else.

 

[TrulyAmiracle]

You mean things like MU numbers or something thats more of a detailed analysis? If its the latter here's the MUs that I feel I have the most knowledge in: NW, Aquaman, Supes, Grundy with a bit of DS, BA, Joker and Doomsday.
I have footage of me against most of these if it helps.

 

[shaowebb]

Just wanted to pop in and say I'm continually being pulled in by this character the more I use her. I got further with her today than with characters I do play and read up on when I got time to game. I really really dig her pressure game. Why don't people play her more?

 

[Miss Kanzuki]

Hmm well tbh I havent played much this past week but I have alot of Black Adam and Aquaman experience

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

I have so much XP against Joker, Black Adam, Nightwing, Catwoman, Wonder Woman and Doomsday

 

[Boodendorf]

Why don't people play her more?

Because top players said she's absolute crap for a long time, and everybody listened.

 

[Espio]

You mean things like MU numbers or something thats more of a detailed analysis? If its the latter here's the MUs that I feel I have the most knowledge in: NW, Aquaman, Supes, Grundy with a bit of DS, BA, Joker and Doomsday.
I have footage of me against most of these if it helps.

I think it would be most advantageous to have something more detailed. Numbers are nice, but they don't tell players what their options are, why a match up is good, bad, even etc. so added insight will be good for everyone of all skill levels. Each match up has their own little nuances and such. I'd imagine if everyone got involved we could each do like four characters and collaborate if people wanted to do that.

I'm hoping this will be not only a guide to help new players determine where she stands and her options, but also help us all as a whole with leveling up as more experienced Hawkgirl players.

We all have different perspectives and insight and yeah footage definitely would. I'll probably start working on this soon around the middle of next week .

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

I think it would be most advantageous to have something more detailed. Numbers are nice, but they don't tell players what their options are, why a match up is good, bad, even etc. so added insight will be good for everyone of all skill levels. Each match up has their own little nuances and such. I'd imagine if everyone got involved we could each do like four characters and collaborate if people wanted to do that.

I'm hoping this will be not only a guide to help new players determine where she stands and her options, but also help us all as a whole with leveling up as more experienced Hawkgirl players.

We all have different perspectives and insight and yeah footage definitely would . I'll probably start working on this soon around the middle of next week .

Exactly... And maybe this will help us to give tips between us in certain match ups.. Etc <3 love the idea

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Guys we are only a few Hawkgirl players <3 Let's make gat stuff between us, help us! I know we all love Hawkgirl <3 Let's together make all them fools that think she is bad stfu

 

[Boodendorf]

Got quite a bunch of knowledge against BL, Batman, GA, Lex. Still working on Sinestro.

 

[shaowebb]

Wait...people still think she is bad? How the hell does that work? Did they just never play her any to make their own decisions? Is this a case of echo chamber agreement or something because an hour in the lab and you can tell she's not bad.

 

[regulas]

Wait...people still think she is bad? How the hell does that work? Did they just never play her any to make their own decisions? Is this a case of echo chamber agreement or something because an hour in the lab and you can tell she's not bad.

Top tier character, at this point and time, are defined by safety or easiness. Hence Superman or Batman are really safe characters, or Scorpion who is super easy (despite being very unsafe).

In the future this will gradually change as people get more experienced being safe or easy becomes less relevant. Until then HG although a solid character is not as easy as some to play so the community will refuse to see her as strong unless she places top 8 at EVo or some other major tournament. Take Harley, it's only because several got into top rankings at CEO that she went from being 3rd worst character to suddenly top tier, despite a lack of functional changes.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Top tier character, at this point and time, are defined by safety or easiness. Hence Superman or Batman are really safe characters, or Scorpion who is super easy (despite being very unsafe).

In the future this will gradually change as people get more experienced being safe or easy becomes less relevant. Until then HG although a solid character is not as easy as some to play so the community will refuse to see her as strong unless she places top 8 at EVo or some other major tournament. Take Harley, it's only because several got into top rankings at CEO that she went from being 3rd worst character to suddenly top tier, despite a lack of functional changes.

Or at least when a "top player" come to here and makea a thread saying she is top tier definitely (something that we keep saying but nobody gaf)
Then everybody will use her because all of them are tier whores

 

[Tiger Wong]

The "top tier players" (who seem to me to just be guys who are good at MK) look at HG as a counterpick character.

Big reason she isn't picked by those guys (IMO) is because she also has a couple of really bad MUs in Sinestro, Lex, and DS. Also, the other characters that are top tier like BA, Supes, WW, and Aquaman can at least handle some of her stuff and if they connect, they do 40%+ damage mid screen easily while HG struggles to get over the 30% mark.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

The "top tier players" (who seem to me to just be guys who are good at MK) look at HG as a counterpick character.

Big reason she isn't picked by those guys (IMO) is because she also has a couple of really bad MUs in Sinestro, Lex, and DS. Also, the other characters that are top tier like BA, Supes, WW, and Aquaman can at least handle some of her stuff and if they connect, they do 40%+ damage mid screen easily while HG struggles to get over the 30% mark.

If you check it the 90% of the players that call her bad are the Superman, Aquaman, Black Adam and Killer Frost players

Why? Because she is the only one that can laugh at Superman's laser.
Why? Because Aquaman can't do anything with her in the Ir... Ground tridents? Jajaja please.
Why? Because she is one of the very only few characters that gives Black Adam a challenge.
Why? Because Killer Frost is nothing while she in the air.


Everybody bitches about her trait LOL, i will talk for us, for every Good hawkgirl player.... We BARELY use her trait, only if you have the life lead against any of those characters i mentioned is where we fly so much? Is that bad? No, because having the life lead who the fuck exposes to be beaten by a laser or a ground trident? Even on block.

 

[Boodendorf]

Wait...people still think she is bad? How the hell does that work? Did they just never play her any to make their own decisions? Is this a case of echo chamber agreement or something because an hour in the lab and you can tell she's not bad.

Lol at expecting people to go into the lab with a character labeled as bad by players they view as gods.

 

[Jon Berg]

I think one of the big things is what was mentioned in another thread, that she is boring to watch. She is literally the anti-hype.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

I have had a lot of comments like that one... But all of them came from players that use characters that are fucking annoying like Superman... How do they want us to play total rushdown with him or be "hype"? I sincerily use so much her trait on that match up... And since they cant zone us and they must get in they call her "boring" but i actually find her so hype

 

[Jon Berg]

I have had a lot of comments like that one... But all of them came from players that use characters that are fucking annoying like Superman... How do they want us to play total rushdown with him or be "hype"? I sincerily use so much her trait on that match up... And since they cant zone us and they must get in they call her "boring" but i actually find her so hype

I dunno look at KDZ's recent performances. That shit was exciting no matter how you cut it. Sick oki setups, beautiful combo execution, and some serious f23 mindgames. I will be thoroughly shocked to see a HG generate a hype set like that at a major.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

I dunno look at KDZ's recent performances. That shit was exciting no matter how you cut it. Sick oki setups, beautiful combo execution, and some serious f23 mindgames. I will be thoroughly shocked to see a HG generate a hype set like that at a major.

Yes... But the thing with Superman is that he is OP af nobody can with a very good Superman, or barely can... I play Theo very often and for much that match is 5-5 he really knows what to do! But our only option against his zoning is flying... No way we can get in just dashing~blocking