Injustice Kryptonite Council Podcast Episode 3 Feat: Tom Brady, Reo, Pig of the Hut, M2dave

[Zyphox]

general m2dave lets get something straight, first it doesn't matter how much crying someone did for the flash, he was nerfed to the ground pre game release. i heard from testers in person about how much crying everyone did about the flash in the beta. 9 frame b2's you could block during trait, 32 FU combo'd and had less recovery, obviously OTG's that HAD to be blocked (yet wonder woman kept hers). a whole lot of nerfs happened to the flash. and the flash takes SKILL to use brother, as skillful as you think it is to zone, its a hell of a lot more skillful to beat a skillful zoner, especially one that knows the flash MU. so i don't wanna hear this shit about flash cry babies this and that, NO ONE has even made top 32 with this fuckin character and now his dash is faster and i can duck your high gun shot with RMS and blow you the fuck up. this character is balanced, HE'S the flash and his faster normal is 7 frames, he has the range of a fuckin t rex with his legs cut off. once people start to learn the MU they won't bitch as much about all his shenanigans, once i start going to more tournaments, or competent flash players make it out to tournaments, then people will start to look through the flash forums and watch all of mine, and muffins and countless other flash mains videos and tech to learn the damn MU, instead of fuckin complaining about other stupid shit on this site. by then it will be too late.

 

[annoyedw/ppl]

I have gotten a perfect score on the state reading tests since the 6th grade. No idea why you bring that up.

Oh ok, so because I was wrong ONE TIME, that means I know nothing about this game. I still know Scorpion, I still do fine against Scorpion, and there is PLENTY of top players who have echoed my points(@GGA 16 bit for example).

And YES, my whole plan is ducking and teching throws. It is called DEFENSE. If you sit back and AA, Duck, and tech the throws he can't do anything. That is how you play him, you sit back and wait for him to make a mistake.



I must have been really lucky then. In VF you have to tech it by pressing the direction of the throw as well, and at a high level people tech throws 95% of the time(I think Tekken may be the same way, not sure though).

sigh

i wonder if GGA 16 Bit would echo your advice of just sitting there and teching throws

 

[Zoidberg747]

sigh

i wonder if GGA 16 Bit would echo your advice of just sitting there and teching throws

Ok so you miss a throw tech and he throws you. His throw doesnt do 100% damage. Sure he sets up his offense but that is kinda what throws are supposed to do.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

I think the flash will ultimately recieve the same reception as my WW did.

Nobody sees shit at first, then BOOM, allthatshitupinyofacewhatchagonnadodie.

 

[MortySeinfeld]

LBSH, Flash should be one of the best characters in this game.

He's one of the strongest Superheroes in DC's roster. He can even beat Superman.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Key word, CAN tech throws.

How many people do it regularly?

everyone not from the MK community

 

[RiBBz22]

scumbag general m2dave for giving Bit and Khaotic props when me and several others are regulating the KF community forum. SMH...

 

[Konqrr]

When you admit to me and to this community that you and Dizzy were wrong about Deathstroke, perhaps we can have a serious discussion.

What the hell does that mean?

"When you start agreeing with me, then we can talk."

WTF! lol

 

[ForeverKing]

It is very difficult to balance risk/reward with that character and at the end of the day, I hate to say it, but it is a matter of guessing right or wrong. Take away Aquaman's trait, where would you put him on the tier-list?

Aquaman downplaying lol. Even without his trait he would still have the best uppercut in the game, that water shield that punishes interactables, projectiles, and other things, he has a special move that takes out 18% chip damage and 28% if it hits, 40% BnB's, from the deep.

Aquaman is still top 3 in this game after the patch

 

[Slips]

I'm sick of this talk about Scorp's tele not fitting within the 'rules' of the game. He pops up on the other side of you, and you have to block the other direction. Its simple.

This concept is not foreign to 2d fighting games. In a lot of versus games (Like UMvC3) some characters are designed based on the fact you have to guess left or right to block (Like Wolverine Beserker Slashes). Why does every character in the game have to be based on overhead/low, hit/throw and command grabs? Scorpion was designed to open you up with mb teleports. Maybe it seems broken to our players in our community but this is nothing new at all in the realm of fighting games. I guess our community is just young and hates foreign concepts.

I'll give another example of how characters in fighting games can create mix-ups upon whether or not you should block left or right.

At 1:15, Millia summons a disc on one side of Eddie, then rolls through him on wake-up forcing him to block the other direction which he successfully does. There was no overhead or low mix-up, its a guess of blocking left or right.

At 1:19, Millia knocks Eddie down, summons a disc in front of him, air dashes over him to make him think she is crossing him up, but then air dashes back to the other side of him cause him to hold forward straight into the disc. She didn't even swing or attack, it was simply Eddie guessing which direction to block. You literally see him holding forward straight into a disc. A guess of holding left or right to get out.

At 0:48, Eddie does a straight up unblockable attack on wake-up that does like 70%...this doesn't have anything to do with my argument about guessing left or right, but just another example as to how Capcom and Japanese players don't go on tantrums when something seems very strong. They just play the game.

 

[M2Dave]

HE'S the flash and his faster normal is 7 frames...

HE'S the Deathstroke and his guns are punishable almost full screen away by the likes of Killer Frost and Raven.

 

[SaJa]

I cannot believe you guys didn't talk about your Zod feelings :/

Would be cool to see new top players on podcast aswell

@AK Pig Of The Hut

 

[The Borax Kid]

General M2Dru-Zod wants to watch the game fail and its characters burn in revenge for his hurt feelings.

Where is the equivalent of Jor-El to put a stop to this nonsense?

Or has the entire Council been corrupted?

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

HE'S the Deathstroke and his guns are punishable almost full screen away by the likes of Killer Frost and Raven.

his guns shouldn't hurt half the cast

so yeah....

 

[Garr123]

This forum is angry at me... I have trolled its true face. The threads are extended gutters and the gutters are full of Scorpions and when the game finally dies, all the insects will leave. The accumulated filth of all their tears and salt will foam up about their waists and all the noobs and scrubs will look up and shout "Too many patches!"... and I'll look down and whisper "Low gunshots."

-m2dave

 

[M2Dave]

scumbag general m2dave for giving Bit and Khaotic props when me and several others are regulating the KF community forum. SMH...

You need to be the first reasonable Killer Frost player to speak out against Iceberg. This move is currently too fast and scrubby.

 

[Garr123]

Let's stop talking about taking away tools and talk about reasonable ways to improve the characters that have significant flaws.

Lobo should have a one button raging demon. There, I said it.

 

[RiBBz22]

You need to be the first reasonable Killer Frost player to speak out against Iceberg. This move is currently too fast and scrubby.

I think the only reason it is faster than trident, black magic and other ground spike type moves is because it has no anti-air properties. But ya awesome move, punishes other ground spikes full screen which pretty much lets her not have to worry about moves like that and play her game instead. Who in the KF community thinks this is a bad move?

 

[trustinme]

Haven't got time to listen to a bunch of nerds taking about Crap ATM,maybe later when im bored. Only joking fellas,looking forward to it.

 

[Konqrr]

I mostly agree with GGA 16 Bit from reading this thread.

However, I want to just say that no matter how we feel, Scorpion IS in this game and he is here to stay. I suggest that you all stop your childish complaining about him and learn the matchup.

Quitting the game over one character is so fucking stupid... stop.

 

[Konqrr]

You need to be the first reasonable Killer Frost player to speak out against Iceberg. This move is currently too fast and scrubby.

Iceberg is a horrible move by itself. It is like -23 or -27 which is full combo punishable by at least 25% of the cast. It is only useful for chip against characters that can't punish it on block or in combos and punishing people who like to just throw out unsafe shit all the time.

Why aren't you complaining about Aquaman's ground trident? It's the EXACT same move, only it hits people who try to jump out where KF's only hits on the ground.

 

[M2Dave]

Iceberg is a horrible move by itself. It is like -23 or -27 which is full combo punishable by at least 25% of the cast. It is only useful for chip against characters that can't punish it on block or in combos and punishing people who like to just throw out unsafe shit all the time.

Why aren't you complaining about Aquaman's ground trident? It's the EXACT same move, only it hits people who try to jump out where KF's only hits on the ground.

Aquaman's trident does not punish Deathstroke's low gunshots on block anywhere on the screen.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

"I got so used to playing Scorpion that I don't know what playing Injustice feels like anymore. Scorpion has made my Batman trash. I feel lost." -REO

Tom Brady in the last podcast: "Scorpion isn't good because he is too good. He is good because he abuses the system and prevents other characters from using the system."

I don't think anyone should apologize because you were all right: Scorpion wasn't the best character. He didn't 10-0 90% of the cast. But he also doesn't fit in Injustice and plays by his own set of rules. Scorpion was indeed the scrubbiest and most braindead character in the game.

Like Tom and REO said, Scorpion was definitely broken pre-patch. Pre-july 2nd he was still top tier, but not broken. Was he really ban worthy then? MAYBE. Nobody can say for sure because we didn't really get to see it at CEO. Scorpion players chose to not play Scorpion during the top 8 so neither side can really claim to be right about it. For the record, I still think Scorpion should've been banned at CEO for the same reason Zod is banned at EVO: It's too early and no one fucking knows how to deal with the character. That alone should've justified a temporary ban.

But fact remains, Scorpion wasn't made for this game. And like I've said before, the way they designed him and the way they designed this game made it pretty hard to balance him properly without completely destroying his "dirt".

Yes, I think Scorpion is un-normalizable. He is impossible to normalize because he was designed to not be normal. And if you try to make him normal and take away his ability to break/ignore the system, then you take the only good thing he has going for him.

 

[16 Bit]

I don't think anyone should apologize because you were all right: Scorpion wasn't the best character. He didn't 10-0 90% of the cast. But he also doesn't fit in Injustice and plays by his own set of rules. Scorpion was indeed the scrubbiest and most braindead character in the game.

Like Tom and REO said, Scorpion was definitely broken pre-patch. Pre-july 2nd he was still top tier, but not broken. Was he really ban worthy then? MAYBE. Nobody can say for sure because we didn't really get to see it at CEO. Scorpion players chose to not play Scorpion during the top 8 so neither side can really claim to be right about it. For the record, I still think Scorpion should've been banned at CEO for the same reason Zod is banned at EVO: It's too early and no one fucking knows how to deal with the character. That alone should've justified a temporary ban.

But fact remains, Scorpion wasn't made for this game. And like I've said before, the way they designed him and the way they designed this game made it pretty hard to balance him properly without completely destroying his "dirt".

Yes, I think Scorpion is un-normalizable. He is impossible to normalize because he was designed to not be normal. And if you try to make him normal and take away his ability to break/ignore the system, then you take the only good thing he has going for him.

There's more than the tournament. Scorpion players used him in casuals as well. They played a variety of players/characters offline for the first time. You heard what REO said about the results. It wasn't as easy as he thought. It wasn't so brain dead he could 10-0 everyone free.

A character having a unique style that doesn't play by the rules doesn't make them bannable or the scrubbiest character in the game. What does that even mean? Do we now have a ease of use police? Let's have a panel of judges that determine which character is too easy to use and who fits our arbitrary rule book.

It isn't a "fact" that Scorpion wasn't made for this game. It's also not a fact that "no one knows how to deal with the character". Scorpion lost. He lost in tournament and he lost in casuals.

In fact you had a list of characters where their mains would have no choice but to switch mains. You were one of the guys running around saying "ok, ok, so yes Killer Frost and Aquaman can compete with Scorpion...but what about the rest". You included Catwoman. I told you Catwoman can very likely compete with him. And she did at CEO. I am not even a Catwoman main.

 

[16 Bit]

If the argument has to constantly shift and the goal posts have to be moved so much it's a sign calling for a ban was wrong. Let's cut the bullshit and stop pretending the case was ever "we just don't know".

It's obvious people wanted him banned and shape the argument to see that through in the guise of being reasonable.