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"I win. I always win." - The Official General Zod Discussion Thread

Swoops

Swoops

Noob
Bf3 seems way more useful in general because it knocks away. Outside of 1,2,3 xx trait/laser shenanegins, bf3 seems like one of his best enders because he can get a Zodball out without too much punishment. I only tested with a couple characters, but it seems there isn't much that punishes him outside of supers and maybe scorpion teleport. It's at least better than anything he gets off Zod charge.

Actually, testing it out some more now, the set up seems pretty different depending on the speed of the Zodball you do. For instance with a medium or fast Zodball, black Adam can roll, then time a jump to punish with dive kick. However with the slow ball, his divekick will be tagged. Doing a slow ball however will give most characters more time to perform something on their normal wake up. Hm, I'll mess around a bit more, but it does seem like Zod would benefit with his rifle recovery reduced a little.

By the way, has anyone found Zod's frame data to be incredibly wonky? I'm pretty sure GB is definitely not 8 frames, and I've been punishing stuff up close with charge that is definitely not -19. Not to mention all the -billion recovery listings
 
XxXAntiJoshXxX

XxXAntiJoshXxX

Herpetologist - The Study of The Reptillian
Also messing around with Jump3, 1,1,2, ExLasers, Dash 3----> Cancel into Trait or Kryp Rifle
Thats 37%, 1MB, with setup.
 
Colonel-Gilgamesh

Colonel-Gilgamesh

Hates NRS for making me not like Superman
Swoops said:
Bf3 seems way more useful in general because it knocks away. Outside of 1,2,3 xx trait/laser shenanegins, bf3 seems like one of his best enders because he can get a Zodball out without too much punishment. I only tested with a couple characters, but it seems there isn't much that punishes him outside of supers and maybe scorpion teleport. It's at least better than anything he gets off Zod charge.

Actually, testing it out some more now, the set up seems pretty different depending on the speed of the Zodball you do. For instance with a medium or fast Zodball, black Adam can roll, then time a jump to punish with dive kick. However with the slow ball, his divekick will be tagged. Doing a slow ball however will give most characters more time to perform something on their normal wake up. Hm, I'll mess around a bit more, but it does seem like Zod would benefit with his rifle recovery reduced a little.

By the way, has anyone found Zod's frame data to be incredibly wonky? I'm pretty sure GB is definitely not 8 frames, and I've been punishing stuff up close with charge that is definitely not -19. Not to mention all the -billion recovery listings
Click to expand...
I wouldn't put THAT much stock in KL setups myself. The recovery on all ends is bad, and you can have trouble dashing in sometimes. This means it's really only good with slow at faraway, and Zod is probably better up close doing his massive damage. Put more stock into Chargeable Ground Laser traps. Lets say you use 1 2 3 as a combo ender, which is really good since it ends in a hard knockdown that is special cancelable. You can choose to keep in with KR, Ground Blast, or just dash up and continue pressure anyways. KR will cause a combo, but terrible hitstun. Ground Blast on the otherhand, you can use, cancel, charge, or charge but not all the way. There's a lot that can be done with the move

That said, there is a lot of merit to getting out the KR shot and following behind it(A lot), but for me personally, I don't like it simply because it gives the opponent time to move and if I'm using it, I'm full screen.

EDIT: It's the same reason I'm not a fan of using 3 as the setup for trait.
 
Swoops

Swoops

Noob
Colonel-Gilgamesh said:
I wouldn't put THAT much stock in KL setups myself. The recovery on all ends is bad, and you can have trouble dashing in sometimes. This means it's really only good with slow at faraway, and Zod is probably better up close doing his massive damage. Put more stock into Chargeable Ground Laser traps. Lets say you use 1 2 3 as a combo ender, which is really good since it ends in a hard knockdown that is special cancelable. You can choose to keep in with KR, Ground Blast, or just dash up and continue pressure anyways. KR will cause a combo, but terrible hitstun. Ground Blast on the otherhand, you can use, cancel, charge, or charge but not all the way. There's a lot that can be done with the move

That said, there is a lot of merit to getting out the KR shot and following behind it(A lot), but for me personally, I don't like it simply because it gives the opponent time to move and if I'm using it, I'm full screen.

EDIT: It's the same reason I'm not a fan of using 3 as the setup for trait.
Click to expand...
Yeah, clearly the laser is better for set ups. I'm slowly noticing how shit rifle is on recovery. I was using that particular set up as more of an example of the benefits of bf3 in strings. At least you get more time and better positioning, plus a safe attempt for a knockdown and distance between you and the opponent.
 
M2Dave

M2Dave

Zoning Master
CKZaibatsu said:
Man, Zod's bf3 is really nice for making strings safe. Have you guys noticed any downsides to using this move? I need to check, but I believe I saw it was only -1 on block.

Too bad it isn't like Superman's Breath HAHA
Click to expand...
b,f+3. is not -1. The frame data is wrong. More along the lines of -4 or -5. Superman's and Hawkgirl's super move punish it on block.
 
LiangHuBBB

LiangHuBBB

Warrior
How strong do ppl actually think Zod is?
Can you play Zod like DS kinda like a keep away character or is his fireball game not as strong as ppl expected it to be when they first saw his moveset?
 
Colonel-Gilgamesh

Colonel-Gilgamesh

Hates NRS for making me not like Superman
He's decent, but not that top tier, no. His normals are too bad and his severe lack of overheads are what will kill him. His other tools balance this out a little though.

Anyone found any good use for the secret ground blast yet?
 
PANDA

PANDA

*Supreme Member*
His only viable overhead is the generic F3.
1,2 and 213 are readable.

Couple that with his low game b1,2 and f2,1 and overhead trait.
 
DeadlyCreampuff

DeadlyCreampuff

Apprentice
Swoops said:
By the way, has anyone found Zod's frame data to be incredibly wonky? I'm pretty sure GB is definitely not 8 frames, and I've been punishing stuff up close with charge that is definitely not -19. Not to mention all the -billion recovery listings
Click to expand...

I think the built in frames list can be very annoying at times because of this. It's mostly right, which makes the tiny errors slip by -.-
That said, I think the 8f listed on ground blast is how much longer it takes when doing the other versions as compared to the normal one, like MB startups.

Btw general m2dave if Hawkgirl super can punish it it's -7 or -8(8f was the data I originally found, but the new frames list it as 7) That's not jolly news :(

Speaking of bad frame data they still list Hawkgirls charge as -40 something XD even after the nerf its still like -4 -.-
 
Colonel-Gilgamesh

Colonel-Gilgamesh

Hates NRS for making me not like Superman
He's wrong. Lex Luthor can't Corp Charge it, and it's 6 frames, faster than Hawkgirl. Chances are General tried to crouch it or something.
 
DeadlyCreampuff

DeadlyCreampuff

Apprentice
general m2dave said:
b,f+3 is safe versus The Flash's d,b+3 which is 6F.
Click to expand...

Witht he way it pushes that might be simply the distance, either way I'm confused, am annoyed at the frame data inaccuracies and am gonna do some more experimenting with Hawks super -.-

EDIT: How did Hawk punish? I can block it just fine.

EDIT 2: Supes can though, but I did learn a few things, d12 and d1 are safe from super no worries, supes frame data says 1f startup ( I never realised they didnt count the first active frame in their data) 38% ( both kryptonians with incorrect damage) and our palm is maybe -2. Also now I guess I understand why ds flip couldn't punish our -8 string. I love that they added it, but I wish they were better at keeping the list correct.

Oh yeah, point blank air rifle is seriously + on block, I didn't realise it created quite that much advantage.
 
Swoops

Swoops

Noob
He definitely seems to have some problems, mainly that it's really hard to get Zodballs out against better zoning tools. It wouldn't be that much of a problem if it were easier to get trait out, but it seems like he really needs a good knockdown set up or a zodball on the screen in order to work his magic with Mr. Nomz (Phan-nomnom?). I almost feel like I have to work my way up from Side Arm every time I'm zoning. Try to connect a side arm, if I hit it, confirm into zodball, then use the hesitation while zodball is out to summon phantom.

I think his up close game is pretty solid though for the type of character he is. 3 is still a great button, and he has good reaching low starters as well as + on block launch confirms. If you're looking for a 50/50 character it's probably not him, but you can always use 2,1 3/xx MB laser for a ghetto mix up. Besides, his trait is supposed to be for the high/low mix ups.

He just seems like a zoner but his zoning tools are really damn slow, so he has to be really deliberate with zoning so he can start up trait madness. Then you just have to be on top of punishing with zod charge to waste time and control space. I think I can see him being like high middle with work.
 
Swoops

Swoops

Noob
Of course he isn't a pure zoner, but an argument can easily be made that he mostly is, given that his zoning tools out weigh any sort of up close offensive tools.
 
DeadlyCreampuff

DeadlyCreampuff

Apprentice
So Zod Charge appears to be 14f, nightwings super hopefully has accurate data. Might be 13f, havent found a move to test that. 12f seems to not be so.
 
ABACABB

ABACABB

End Of Humanity
Ds and raven will be his bad MUs for sure . They totally outzone him . Even harley gunshots can be a problem lol
His zoning and trait is too slow . Only pistol and ground laser are fast but you cant rly zone with lasers from fullscreen.
 
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