Injustice Kryptonite Council Podcast Episode 3 Feat: Tom Brady, Reo, Pig of the Hut, M2dave

[YOMI MITYEAP]

I remember you saying you were born in the 90s? If so, I'm impressed you actually know this. Most of the new generation today thinks anything top tier is "broken" and automatically bring up ST Akuma. Broken is broken, but ST Akuma is god himself in video game form.

I am only 17 and was born in 1996, never played the game but I studied ST some and watched multiple high lvl matches/ tournaments where ST was being played (vega is so cheap haha). When I saw a video of what ST akuma could do, I was like "damn I've never seen a character look so dominate lol".

 

[RWDY Nori]

True. But so is practice in the NFL and in the Superbowl bro.
You guys are so serious here. Jesus ._.

I don't think I said anything aggressive? Just stating a fact. I never played in the NFL/NBA or any professional sport, but I have been a tournament player since 2003 and been to most states and competed in nationals, so this is something I can relate to. I don't think anybody here can relate to a professional sport, so apples and oranges comparison. KF's 50/50s are very hard to react to and I don't think anybody during a live tournament can do this consistently

 

[Zoidberg747]

7 out of the top 8 used Scorpion at some point during the tournament. I'm not sure what else really needs to be said

False

Those who used Scorpion in tourney:
PL
Deg
REO
CD Jr

Those who did not:
Saltface
KDZ
Chris G
Rico Suave

(Actually rico might have, idk)

 

[16 Bit]

If the games blocking is done by back to block, that means he has an instant crossover anywhere on the screen that can only be blocked by holding down realistically.

That means that NO character in Injustice has a real gameplan against him other than guess right.
I dont agree with the nerfs Scorpion got, they went the wrong way about it, they shouldve let him keep his legit dirt, and at the same time give other characters to fight against him other than just ducking and guessing where the Scorpion player will fuck up.

If the teleport hit infront, the Scorpion could still control the match the same way he did day 1 of his release, control environments, jump like a looney, but you wouldnt have to worry about the crossup, and therefore have to sit there like a duck.

It's not because I didnt like a mechanic, its because it just doesnt conform to even the dirtiest of dirt in this game. But fuck it, I dont care either way, I never had a problem against Scorpion in the first place, I should just stop posting.

It would break the games rule of the game if it wasn't a cross up.

"breaks the rules of the game" talking point is one of MANY of these talking points that make no sense.

 

[M2Dave]

Havnt listened to this yet but would love to hear general m2dave 's thoughts on scorp now. after all those tears he's been shedding and all those tissues he's went through to see his god scorp lose to harley players at ceo top 8 makes me literally laugh out loud.

REO did not use Scorpion in the top 8, but 4 of the top 8 players used Scorpion to get to the top 8.

What more evidence do you fools need?

 

[RWDY Nori]

When the results were originally posted, I remember seeing 7 out 8 specifically use Scorpion. It's not important for me to go back and pull up the results, but 4 out of 8 is still a large number in a major FG w/200 people. Scorpion seems he was rushed and I happen to know one of the testers who can confirm this, he wasn't planned properly. Scorpion in this game is like showing up to prom w/out a condom

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

It would break the games rule of the game if it wasn't a cross up.

"breaks the rules of the game" talking point is one of MANY of these talking points that make no sense.

I'm actually done arguing it, its like THE most simple thing to see and to understand, I know I'm not alone considering 75% of the community agree.

I've had people watch me play that don't even play the game themselves, and say the same shit without me even having to mention it.

So fuck it.

 

[Reauxbot]

I don't think I said anything aggressive? Just stating a fact. I never played in the NFL/NBA or any professional sport, but I have been a tournament player since 2003 and been to most states and competed in nationals, so this is something I can relate to. I don't think anybody here can relate to a professional sport, so apples and oranges comparison. KF's 50/50s are very hard to react to and I don't think anybody during a live tournament can do this consistently

I know you werent being agressive. I was just messing around and got corrected for something Im aware of.
Yea the NFL is different. But its a league where each player has to know their matchups and what to do and strategize. I played for Basketball and Football teams in highschool.
That being said Tournament players have to know their opponents and all that as well. Simple example buddy.
Also your Avatar is legit bro

 

[Garr123]

Doesn't matter, the game turns from moving back & forwards, to holding down or up.
It's not traditional, keep acting passive aggressive all you want, don't care.

Do you know how fast 23 frames is? I think humans can begin to react to things at 24 frames IIRC

A little under half a second. The catch is that any sort of reaction time test doesn't take into account people who spend hundreds to thousands of hours training muscle memory ala fighting game players. That's why Cody's 18 frame overhead seems slow and easy to react to (this is also because it has such a distinct animation.)

I'm not being passive aggressive, I'm being active aggressive.

 

[16 Bit]

REO did not use Scorpion in the top 8, but 4 of the top 8 players used Scorpion to get to the top 8.

What more evidence do you fools need?

Dave give me the exact number of a character needed in the top 8 to make them break the rules of the game or be bannable or nerfable? I need a number. If there had 3 would that be ok? If there was 7 would the character then need to be nerfed more? Give us the guidelines.

 

[StevoSuprem0]

AK Pig Of The Hut, you mentioned that the increased recovery on Sinestro's db2 was to get rid of the high damage trait corner combos (74% with super), but they actually still work with the patch up. Not that it matters, they are probably the most situational thing ever, but you CAN pull them off by baiting someone to come at you when you are zoning them from the corner and the cross up ji3 and go into it off that if you happen to have full trait and super and wanna make the crowd go wild... haha just thought I'd throw that out there. Good luck training for EVO man, you were the only one in the podcast that sounded like a man about dusting yourself off from CEO and leveling up for EVO, so I'll be rooting for you when all the Jokers get eliminated =)

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Dave give me the exact number of a character needed in the top 8 to make them break the rules of the game or be bannable or nerfable? I need a number. If there had 3 would that be ok? If there was 7 would the character then need to be nerfed more? Give us the guidelines.

He got nerfed the wrong way, should've kept all his dirt/advantage/jumping bullshit, but have a batgirl esque teleport

 

[RWDY Nori]

Dave give me the exact number of a character needed in the top 8 to make them break the rules of the game or be bannable or nerfable? I need a number. If there had 3 would that be ok? If there was 7 would the character then need to be nerfed more? Give us the guidelines.

You're a smart guy, do you not think 4 out of top 8 in a tourney of 200 is pretty silly? I'm sure there are many scorpions that entered and he was probably one of the most popular chars there. Do you think he's actually balanced? Or am I not understanding your posts?

 

[Big Pampering]

I don't know how skilled this DEG guy is but 3 out of 4 scorpions were reo, cdjr and perfect legend. who wouldnt have these 3 people in their top 8 prediction with or without scorpion? They were the 3 best Mk players with the most wins.

I feel like it doesnt matter how good these teleport mixups are, they are punishable now even the MB version and he gets about 20% off of it because of the damage nerf. Scorpion is just a bad character design and I already saw this coming, the character either has to be a problem or he has to be nerfed into the ground, there is no in between imo.

edit: not to mention his air normals are shitty now. Also especially PL didnt use scorpion at all to get into top 8, from his top 32 matches til top 8 it was all black adam.

 

[Heroic_Legacy]

Doesn't matter, the game turns from moving back & forwards, to holding down or up.
It's not traditional, keep acting passive aggressive all you want, don't care.

Do you know how fast 23 frames is? I think humans can begin to react to things at 24 frames IIRC

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?10898-Millia-Mixup-Blocker-Flash-App

Sure the flash app is down, but the idea was 16f and 20f are within human reaction timing. And with enough practice you could use this thing to be able to react to 2 of the situations Millia can hit you with.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

I don't know how skilled this DEG guy is but 3 out of 4 scorpions were reo, cdjr and perfect legend. who wouldnt have these 3 people in their top 8 prediction with or without scorpion? They were the 3 best Mk players with the most wins.

I feel like it doesnt matter how good these teleport mixups are, they are punishable now even the MB version and he gets about 20% off of it. Scorpion is just a bad character design and I already saw this coming, the character either has to be a problem or he has to be nerfed into the ground, there is no in between imo.

this is how I feel about scorpion. He should be made where his ground/footsies game is good and that his normals are legit. They could strip him of his tele or all I care, but those things I mentioned should be good. His overhead should be like 19 frames and his b1,2 should be like -5 so his vortex is legit and safe. But NRS insists on making scorpion some super unsafe derpy character and that is really disrespectful to pretty much the most iconic mk character (Capcom doesn't do this to ryu and I love scorpion so of course i'm salty about this haha ).

 

[MortySeinfeld]

Dave give me the exact number of a character needed in the top 8 to make them break the rules of the game or be bannable or nerfable? I need a number. If there had 3 would that be ok? If there was 7 would the character then need to be nerfed more? Give us the guidelines.

There is no static number that can define this.

The fact of the matter is that Scorpion had a huge presence at CEO, and had he remained the same, would've had a huge presence at Evo.

Despite how anyone felt about the character, I think the best middle-ground argument is simply that the character was too new for the community to make a determination prior to Evo (the same argument as to why Zod is banned, also why Freddy and Skarlet were initially banned).

 

[Big Pampering]

this is how I feel about scorpion. He should be made where his ground/footsies game is good and that his normals are legit. They could strip him of his tele or all I care, but those things I mentioned should be good. His overhead should be like 19 frames and his b1,2 should be like -5 so his vortex is legit and safe. But NRS insists on making scorpion some super unsafe derpy character and that is really disrespectful to pretty much the most iconic mk character (Capcom doesn't do this to ryu and I love scorpion so of course i'm salty about this haha ).

Thats what I've been saying all along, just change his playstyle. These nerfs are just really lazy imo, they could have come up with something better, but NRS might just be tired of all these complaints lol.

Edit: The people who really like scorpion would still play him if he was good. I don't think any good fighting game player would like to play a prepatch scorpion style anyway, because the character didn't allow much input from the players themselves.(except for pl)

 

[M2Dave]

Dave give me the exact number of a character needed in the top 8 to make them break the rules of the game or be bannable or nerfable? I need a number. If there had 3 would that be ok? If there was 7 would the character then need to be nerfed more? Give us the guidelines.

There is no number.

Pre-patch Deathstroke never placed top 8 but was normalized.

Aside from Tom Brady, pre-patch Aquaman never placed top 8 but was normalized.

I genuinely believe that pre-patch Scorpion broke the game, and I am not going to argue why because I have done so in writing and speaking.

Players complain about the character that gives their main character the most problems. When I complain, I am hurting the community and the game. When others complain, nobody says anything.

 

[Garr123]

The thing about reaction time is that it reduces with training. If you sat and stared at a screen waiting for it to change colors for thousands of hours, you'd end up with a significantly lower reaction time than when you started.

This is why fighter pilots, table tennis players, pro FPS players and shit have crazy reaction times. The brain rewires itself in response to stimuli and training muscle memory, and one would assume the same thing happens with fighting game players.

Edit: It also might be that they're born with the potential to have superior reaction times, so they ended up good at things that require it. The chicken or the egg isn't conclusive from the studies I've read.

 

[RWDY Nori]

Players complain about the character that gives their main character the most problems. When I complain, I am hurting the community and the game. When others complain, nobody says anything.

When you are a leader of the community, you will get feedback for complaining too much and you for sure complained too much. You made 3 threads about DS being Kano 2.0 and not tourney viable. You could have shared your feelings in private among other offline players or in PMs or maybe a post or 2 and that's it. You went on and made an entire mini series about the complaints, that's why people think what they do.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

Thats what I've been saying all along, just change his playstyle. These nerfs are just really lazy imo, they could have come up with something better, but NRS might just be tired of all these complaints lol.

Edit: The people who really like scorpion would still play him if he was good. I don't think any good fighting game player would like to play a prepatch scorpion style anyway, because the character didn't allow much input from the players themselves.(except for pl)

right on point, when I saw that video of REO playing online with scorpion I was like "do I really have to play like this again like in mk9 where he had no footsies?" and me being a player who loves playing footsies, this makes me mad.

 

[16 Bit]

You're a smart guy, do you not think 4 out of top 8 in a tourney of 200 is pretty silly? I'm sure there are many scorpions that entered and he was probably one of the most popular chars there. Do you think he's actually balanced? Or am I not understanding your posts?

I think he's balanced. One of the top characters but not different from the rest of the top. I was in favor of him being legal. I don't care how many Scorpion's were in the top 8. I don't base my opinions on balance and banning based on the exact number of appearances in a top 8. I played 3 of the 4 Scorpion players in the top 8. I used Catwoman to show it wasn't just Killer Frost. At CEO we saw Doomsday, Superman, Harley and Green Arrow competing with Scorpion as well. Going into CEO the talking point was only Killer Frost, Wonder Woman, Batgirl and Aquaman can compete. Over the course of one weekend the list might have doubled. Does no one see what that means?

 

[Saboteur-6]

There is no number.

Pre-patch Deathstroke never placed top 8 but was normalized.

Aside from Tom Brady, pre-patch Aquaman never placed top 8 but was normalized.

I genuinely believe that pre-patch Scorpion broke the game, and I am not going to argue why because I have done so in writing and speaking.

Players complain about the character that gives their main character the most problems. When I complain, I am hurting the community and the game. When others complain, nobody says anything.

No but when you complain after admitting that you had an agenda (because you're bitter about Deathstroke) in your OWN podcast you invalidate your own arguments. I have no idea how you got lumped into "community leader status". It's embarassing.

 

[Saboteur-6]

I think he's balanced. One of the top characters but not different from the rest of the top. I was in favor of him being legal. I don't care how many Scorpion's were in the top 8. I don't base my opinions on balance and banning based on the exact number of appearances in a top 8. I played 3 of the 4 Scorpion players in the top 8. I used Catwoman to show it wasn't just Killer Frost. At CEO we saw Doomsday, Superman, Harley and Green Arrow competing with Scorpion as well. Going into CEO the talking point was only Killer Frost, Wonder Woman, Batgirl and Aquaman can compete. Over the course of one weekend the list might have doubled. Does no one see what that means?

Yeah, that some of the supposed "community leaders/players" jumped the gun and don't want to admit it.