Match-up Discussion Superman Matchup Discussion

[KDZ]

Spam it to gain meter to force him to do something. You dont have to initiate.​

 

[chronos411]

Is there anyway we can consoldate all this data and put it on the front page? I noticed in the OP all the spoilers are empty. I dont mind reading through stuff but its just easier to have all our stuff consolidated. I'd maybe even be willing to start a new thread and run it if thats what it takes.

But a Superman question. KDZ how do you approach the Black Adam matchup? I struggle sometimes against the divekick in particular and its really hard to catch his insanly good backdash

 

[SnoopyClownGang]

Spam it to gain meter to force him to do something. You dont have to initiate.​

Agreed. Once you get super, hawkgirl can't do anything without eating 40%. Which is more than any amount of chip you take from mace throws.

Thoughts/tips on KF matchup? I feel like she shuts down a lot of his tools. My gameplan at the moment is to build enough meter to be able to punish her 50/50 with super, but you really can't abuse lasers in this matchup. She seems to be able to counter supes zoning effectively, and slide really messes with any sort of mid-range spacing game you attempt. It seems like you have to rush her down to build meter, while still accounting for her 1-frame parry and the fact that slide goes under f2. I definitely think this is superman's worst matchup besides maybe scorpion.

 

[KDZ]

She absolutely 100% loses to Superman zoning. She has to come in.

 

[GGA Max]

Hey guys,

As of late, can anyone comment on who you believe is superman's worst MU's? Maybe like your top 3 hardest?

 

[SnoopyClownGang]

She absolutely 100% loses to Superman zoning. She has to come in.

http://www.twitch.tv/pandaxgaming/b/420495292
My match against 16 bit starts around 4:04.
I tried to zone in the matchup. It definitely seemed like the way to play the matchup, but I'm not sure you can really keep her out. Totally got outplayed though.

 

[SnoopyClownGang]

Hey guys,

As of late, can anyone comment on who you believe is superman's worst MU's? Maybe like your top 3 hardest?

I would say in NPO: Killer Frost, Scorpion, and maybe Wonder Woman or Black Adam. Possible runner-ups include Batgirl and hawkgirl imo. I don't really think Superman has many bad matchups though.

 

[Scalabrine]

What do you guys think about the Joker MU?

Maybe im wrong but i see it pretty even, supes can't zone him and Joker has some pretty quick normals.

How do you guys see this mu?

 

[xQUANTUMx]

once you get passed his low high mixup, you can F23whiff punish in to insanity (as my buddy SquirtMcGirt likes to say). Obv there are really good jokers out there. Generally, I find its better to pressure him. His gun is really good. if you air laser, its on a read. I would still say its adv superman though. Get Joker in the corner and pressure. Push block? thanks for the bar. still in the corner.

 

[chronos411]

I've never fought a really good joker but I have fought some decent ones online so take this with a grain of salt. Pistol is definately good against Supes zoning but he cant really react to your heat zap he has to do it preemptivly so you can abuse that by making a read with the air heat or if you dont think hes gonna do it just using that time to walk and dash toward him. You can duck pistol on reaction pretty easily from full screen. Remember if he actually blocks a near full screen heat zap then you get 2 free dashes that no character can do anything about. Once your in f23 range then there isnt really much he can do to stop you. I can see J2 and J3 giving Supes a little bit of an issue but not enough to swing the match in his favor. probably 6-4 Supes

 

[shinyokoh]

Agreed. Once you get super, hawkgirl can't do anything without eating 40%. Which is more than any amount of chip you take from mace throws.

Thoughts/tips on KF matchup? I feel like she shuts down a lot of his tools. My gameplan at the moment is to build enough meter to be able to punish her 50/50 with super, but you really can't abuse lasers in this matchup. She seems to be able to counter supes zoning effectively, and slide really messes with any sort of mid-range spacing game you attempt. It seems like you have to rush her down to build meter, while still accounting for her 1-frame parry and the fact that slide goes under f2. I definitely think this is superman's worst matchup besides maybe scorpion.

ive tried this against against many kf users low block her slide then grab from low block , if its teched send out the f2, 3

 

[xQUANTUMx]

She can also MB ~whatever the hell she wants. I feel she dictates the pace here. Her guesses are much safer than ours

 

[Death]

How do you guys fight KF?

 

[xQUANTUMx]

How do you guys fight KF?

I go to the select screen and pick scorpion.....TROLOLOLOLOL

she's tough man. I hate her. You cant air laser bc iceberg. You cant really do much against slide. she can parry your pressure... Her overhead i find is deceptively fast. she can zone faster than us (Iceberg or daggers vs heatzap). Ive only had success whiff punishing and damaging (he needs it) her as much as I can before getting caught in that fucking vortex and trying to guess right...

Raynex Compbros SatsuiYesHadou

 

[nfdsallwd]

Death
i mostly try to bait her slides with jumpbacks, also it is possible to zone her a bit with low air lasers. don't do high ones because she can slide under you and do a combo to vortex, and if you are too far you will have to meterburn, which is not the best idea. after a blocked slide you have to try to throw her for a couple of times, it is a good option. last kf i played with tried to punish it with neutral jump 2 but i blocked in time.
if you get her to corner and catch her with f23 she is dead most of the time, if she catches you with a slide and overhead its a terrible guessing game. her vortex is pretty stupid because both options are safe. matchup is 6-4 kf i think, when she gets a damage nerf it will be a bit more reasonable, because she will have to guess more times.
also her anti air is pretty damn good already even before the universal d2 buffs, so i only try to jump on her in setups after knockdowns. pick a stage with some interactibles to throw at her, it will also help.
mix up your pressure more, with f2 d1, tick throws, f23~heatzap for frame advantage and normals cancelled into trait.
this matchup will require you to read her a lot, i am not aware of a true strategy for kf yet, unfortunately her design makes it a guessing game.
im not sure about keeping meter to punish slides with super, because i try to save it for combos and punish her as hard as possible for every mistake.
hope it helps a bit.

 

[chronos411]

I've played a couple KF players in tourny. You have to be super careful in this match. I dont think Supes loses it but its definatly one of his harder matchups. You have to approach her slowly and watch for slides. try to get in supes sweet spot which is max f2 range. From here if she tries anything but slide you should be able to whiff punish and if you have bar you can MB B3 if you want. I try to save super in this match that way her only safe option is to F3 me. Be careful though you cant super through daggers because it hits twice. Her parry can be troublesome too but you just have to make good reads. alot of times when i put frost into F23xxbreath mixups they get frustrated and try to parry my next F2. So just wait and react accordingly. Also after a block slide she is -4. Super is a punish but if you dont have super you can try to check her with D1. Again be careful here because she has options that beat that parry and unless you are frame perfect on the D1, MB F3 will get you. You cant ever really Air Heat unless you are planning to MB it because she gets a punish everytime. Heat Zap is ok but she can make a read and hit you out of it also slide will go right under so I would only do it from full screen. Pretty much stay at the distance where you F2 hits and slide is reactable. She has a couple more options against F23xxbreath than most but its still good against her. Ill post more if I can think of something i missed

 

[nfdsallwd]

isnt her f3 also minus on block? if i recall correctly its -5, so you can punish her for every vortex attempt. but im not a fan of this strategy maybe i should try it also

 

[chronos411]

I thought it was + cause most peoples are but I just double checked and according to the frame data it is -5 so yah you can punish it as well unless the frame data is wrong. I can see how people could put it in her favor though. I just think just because she does good against Supes zoning game doesnt mean she beats him. Her vortex is really good but so is Supes F23xxbreath pressure. I just feel its pretty even

 

[nfdsallwd]

my main problem is her general safety in mixups and resets which lead into itself. after just 1 blocked slide she makes you play her game, that is why i don't like this matchup at all. but if you whiff punish and mixup her properly, 2 combos from f23 and she is nearly dead. so its not a hopeless match

 

[shinyokoh]

How do you guys fight KF?

who

 

[Raynex]

my main problem is her general safety in mixups and resets which lead into itself. after just 1 blocked slide she makes you play her game, that is why i don't like this matchup at all. but if you whiff punish and mixup her properly, 2 combos from f23 and she is nearly dead. so its not a hopeless match

When you block her slide you play her game? You got it backwards man. She's at -4 after a blocked slide, your D1 will beat any move she attempts aside from [MB] F3 / B3. If you throw, you'll execute faster so it will grab her out of moves (this forces her to tech). F2 also blows up anything she does after slide. Do not just sit there when you block it, that's one of the few times her pressure actually ends.

 

[nfdsallwd]

Raynex
our d1 is beaten by parry, so you have to guess once again. the only real viable option is to go for a throw, if you can't make a read

 

[Raynex]

True, I forgot about the parry! MB B3, pretty sure its slow enough to blow up parry and also beat any of her buttons.

 

[Kidsnipa]

Anyone have any good solid tips/advice for fighting BA? I used to use him as well and fighting a few good ones online I have somewhat an idea, but I just got bodied yesterday by Sabin he was on point with whiff punishing a lot of what I did

 

[SnoopyClownGang]

True, I forgot about the parry! MB B3, pretty sure its slow enough to blow up parry and also beat any of her buttons.

i'm pretty sure d1~slide blows up mb b3