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Tech Batter-up! -- Harley mixups for 1.03

KamkaziChicila

KamkaziChicila

Harley & Zatana is all I need.
Ronald_A_Knox said:
Come to think of it, how big is the window if they do that?

It has been kinda confirmed the AI is unreliable for wake-ups, because it does them faster than humanly possible.
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Its all match-up dependent. Some characters like Lex can't do anything about her f23, even with roll. I tested his roll into Corp Charge and he can't punish her. Even if he rolls into Far Mine, she's still safe. But other projectile heavy characters like Deathstroke (Quick Fire +Low Guns ) or Raven (Soul Crush) can easily blow it up.
 
serge

serge

Mortal
It's nothing very special but I thought this might help the Harley players. I found this nasty 50/50 corner cross up but it only works against big characters (Doomsday, Bane, Lex and Grundy).

Basicly you can TS2 followed by NJ2 into full combo.
If you jump right after TS2 you will land on the right side and if you delay it by a tiny bit you will land on the left side.

ji2, b22, ts2 works for more damage.

 
Fergus

Fergus

Like Father, Like Daughter
Ok this is extremely gimmicky and I wouldn't use it more than once in a set.

But stuff like d1 xx high gunshot (whiff) to force a delayed reaction out of them then d1 xx TS1 can score you a combo.

And if your opponent isn't reacting to Harley's overhead right (like just reacting to her arm), you can whiff 1 and then they'll stand up to block and then go straight to b2,2 xx TS1, again probably only work the once and if your opponent isn't used to Harley's overhead.

Something to keep in mind I guess.
 
k1nG_Qu1nN

k1nG_Qu1nN

The King
Ronald_A_Knox said:
As many of you are aware, Harley no longer has any frametraps. 2d3 string is dead, so is any hope of ever landing f2 on somebody who played Harley more than once and is actually a good player. But! No giving up yet. In fact, just right now, i found some very dirty things with f3 that might interest you or even end up as her real mixups.

Ok, here's the deal.

f3 is godlike. Yes, i said it, a 39 frame normal is godlike. Hear me out.

When you hold 3, it delays. When it delays, you can dash cancel it. At maximum of f3's range dashing once makes you up close. From this you get these options:

  • Option 1: The opp was standing blocking, waiting for your hammer to land. You get in, do a low(b22), COMBO!
  • Option 2: He was blocking low, reacting to dash coming. Do a throw! Throw will end at the exact range of hammer and you can play that roulette again.
  • Option 3: The opp was pressing a button, likely to punish the dash or throw escape. For that you don't dash cancel and just do MB F3 And again, COMBO.
  • Option 4: The opp backdashes. Well, Grundy has to deal with that too and he is fine. You can shoot them on their way back for some damage and chase them into the corner.
  • Option 5: The opp forward dashes with intention to make f3 whiff over themselves and punish it. What do you do? B3! What? MB B3 and MB F3 look really similar, and by the time the opp realises it isn't F3, he'll be flying away baseball-style. And while he is busy trying to respect and identify if it's B3 or F3, he is not forward dashing, allowing you to go for any of the prior 4 options.
  • Option 6: Your opp is punishing the dash/f3 with multi-hit moves. You've trained them to do that on reaction. Very good, don't use F3 for a while. He will be expecting F3 and block for it, so you approach and do b22/throw. By the time he tries to anticipate that one, go back to F3.
And that is a whopping 6 options so far.


Using it requies proper spacing with your F3, and knowing what range it is at, because too close it whiffs. But you can also use all this on wake-up.

After an f1, 3 combo ender your opponent is in hard knockdown. Other enders mostly go in similar range, i say f1, 3 because that is the one i use. Your options from that are as follows:

  • Low: bf3, TS1, you get the drill.
  • Jump-in: forward dash, ji2, etc.
  • Alt low, fake jump-in: forward dash, TS1, etc
  • Zoning: bf2 cupcake. Get back and start zoning while he is hit/blocking.
  • Vs wake-up attack: MB B3 or MB F3 with a delay to let their invincible frames die out.
  • This tech: forward dash, F3, read above.
As you can see, you can squeeze this tech into your oki game as well, allowing for yet another six options, five of them leading into combo, and the last one leading to six more options.


Turns out, Harley is a very dirty girl with very dirty tech. Please post your questions, opinions, and additions. We may get out of this just yet.
Click to expand...
What combos can you do from f3 if it hits though?
 
booivi

booivi

Good Game :)
k1nG_Qu1nN said:
What combos can you do from f3 if it hits though?
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You can go into a hard knockdown combo into oki. Example : f3, j3(learn the timing), 112(hard knockdown), then you are back into good spacing for anything "Ronald_A_Knox" mentioned. Thanks, Ronald_A_Knox.
 
booivi

booivi

Good Game :)
Although, I'd like to know how in the world are you going to get the opponent to respect your f3 delayed pressure. especially zoners, don't expect to be putting pressure on them at all. Superman for example.
 
booivi

booivi

Good Game :)
After a combo ending with 112, harley gets a free f3 that either hit confirms or gets blocked,..
I'M GOING TO LIST SOME THINGS HARLEY CAN DO AFTER THE OPPONENT BLOCKS F3. IF F3 HITS YOU CAN SIMPLY RESTART THE PROCESS.
Vs. f.jump you can j3/j2/j1 into 12,PD(for damage) or 112 to restart the process...(tested, works)
Vs b.jump you can dash j2 into 12,PD(for damage) or 112 to restart the process...(tested, works)
Vs. Special Moves you can either b3 Mb, f3 MB, block punish or cupcake/MB or not(beats a handful of wakeups)...(not tested, but its common sense?)
Vs. f.dash you can d1 TS1/2/3(your choice) or b22 TS1/2/3...(not tested)
Vs. b.dash you can SS, TS1/2/3(your choice)...(not tested)
DON'T FORGET YOU CAN CANCEL THE F3 TO MESS WITH YOUR OPPONENT.
 
Jermball

Jermball

Noob
Brahma said:
Only use SS~f2 if you know they aren't going to wakeup attack or backdash. Other than that it's pretty free, it beats anything 6f or slower (without armor of course) and they still get hit if they jump out. If they BD then they get hit by the 2nd hit of f23.

EDIT: Tested some and if you cancel 112 ender into SS then f23 on the 1st frame then it seems you can't backdash the f2, at least vs another Harley. Needs further testing.
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On paper, they should be able to backdash out due to invincibilty frames, but..112 SS is the best setup for the F2. The way i choose to throw this out is i'll end my combo 112 SS, and then just see what they do. depending how they wake up / react is how i determine if i should try to F2 them on their wake up.

I use 112 a lot for pressure, it just seems if they block it, it's very hard for them to do anything. even with the 2D3 nerf, she still has frame traps. 33 is +8 if i'm not mistaken
 
Jermball

Jermball

Noob
booivi said:
After a combo ending with 112, harley gets a free f3 that either hit confirms or gets blocked,..
I'M GOING TO LIST SOME THINGS HARLEY CAN DO AFTER THE OPPONENT BLOCKS F3. IF F3 HITS YOU CAN SIMPLY RESTART THE PROCESS.
Vs. f.jump you can j3/j2/j1 into 12,PD(for damage) or 112 to restart the process...(tested, works)
Vs b.jump you can dash j2 into 12,PD(for damage) or 112 to restart the process...(tested, works)
Vs. Special Moves you can either b3 Mb, f3 MB, block punish or cupcake/MB or not(beats a handful of wakeups)...(not tested, but its common sense?)
Vs. f.dash you can TS1/2/3(your choice)...(not tested)
Vs. b.dash you can SS, TS1/2/3(your choice)...(not tested)
DON'T FORGET YOU CAN CANCEL THE F3 TO MESS WITH YOUR OPPONENT.
Click to expand...
i've actually been messing around with F3 lately, and it's surprsingly effective, good shit..people should look into this mixup too.
 
k1nG_Qu1nN

k1nG_Qu1nN

The King
booivi said:
After a combo ending with 112, harley gets a free f3 that either hit confirms or gets blocked,..
I'M GOING TO LIST SOME THINGS HARLEY CAN DO AFTER THE OPPONENT BLOCKS F3. IF F3 HITS YOU CAN SIMPLY RESTART THE PROCESS.
Vs. f.jump you can j3/j2/j1 into 12,PD(for damage) or 112 to restart the process...(tested, works)
Vs b.jump you can dash j2 into 12,PD(for damage) or 112 to restart the process...(tested, works)
Vs. Special Moves you can either b3 Mb, f3 MB, block punish or cupcake/MB or not(beats a handful of wakeups)...(not tested, but its common sense?)
Vs. f.dash you can TS1/2/3(your choice)...(not tested)
Vs. b.dash you can SS, TS1/2/3(your choice)...(not tested)
DON'T FORGET YOU CAN CANCEL THE F3 TO MESS WITH YOUR OPPONENT.
Click to expand...
wait? Cancel F3?
 
k1nG_Qu1nN

k1nG_Qu1nN

The King
booivi said:
Yes. Hold f3 for a bit then forward/backward dash to cancel out.
Click to expand...
I'm learning new things every day....I'm such a noob, they didn't teach me that in the tutorial in the game a few months back also how do you meter burn B3 and F3? Not bounce cancel but normal meter burn.
 
Laos_boy

Laos_boy

Meow Hoes
Has anyone brought up this set up?

112 ts~forward cancel neutral jump 2. If they don't tech roll the j2 crosses them up.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4 Beta
 
Jermball

Jermball

Noob

do your bnb but end your combo with tantrum stance roll forward and neutral jump. NOW

2 situations happen here.
They do not tech roll :
- If they use a wake up attack, this will cause them to wake up THE OTHER WAY, example killerfrost's slide will go the wrong way and you can punish her(also they have to input their wake up in the opposite direction)
- It becomes a a very confusing cross-up because you roll on top of them, so after the roll you nj 2 and you end up behind them, and they must immediately block the cross up which is already hard to see.

They do tech roll
- you are already able to move long before they tech roll.
- if you know they plan to use a wake up attack, neutral jump is safe and you can MB expected wakeup.
- you are still in a sweet spot for zoning with cupcakes or gun or air to air 2.

I've been testing this against my offline scene and against online players, if they don't tech roll, it's a free combo 90% of the time. hope this helps get things going in the right direction, or possibly further keep your harley unpredictable.

However this does not work against everyone, I just wanted to put out a concept, but there are a few things i didn't show, like what you can do after tech roll.

Superman - Flying Punch
Wonder woman - Lasso Spin (you can actually avoid this another way)
Lex Luthor - Corps Charge (you could avoid this, but can be tough)
pretty much any wakeup with a hitbox that surrounds them will not work that well.

I hope this helps.
 
Jermball

Jermball

Noob
serge said:
It's nothing very special but I thought this might help the Harley players. I found this nasty 50/50 corner cross up but it only works against big characters (Doomsday, Bane, Lex and Grundy).

Basicly you can TS2 followed by NJ2 into full combo.
If you jump right after TS2 you will land on the right side and if you delay it by a tiny bit you will land on the left side.

ji2, b22, ts2 works for more damage.

Click to expand...
nice, you can actually full combo someone and wall carry them to get the same effect too, it's very tricky.
 
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