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Match-up Discussion Post-patch Match up List and Discussion

Crimson Panther

Crimson Panther

Noob
CrimsonShadow said:
That was before the patch; now if you duck the non-MB tele it whiffs high and he's left standing right next to you, which gives you a free b1 combo.
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Yea I know, I was talking about on block. Before the patch it wasn't -42.

But yes Trip Se7ens I should mention that on whiff (been ducked) it's -27 for him which still allows for both punishes. B1 is 9 frames and B2 is 14.
 
CrimsonShadow

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
GnG CrimsonPanther said:
Yea I know, I was talking about on block. Before the patch it wasn't -42.

But yes I should mention that on whiff (been ducked) it's -27 for him which still allows for both punishes. B1 is 9 frames and B2 is 14.
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Yeah. I mean, if you're able to standing-block all of scorpion's tele's on reaction, more power to you. But that seems risky :)
 
Orochi

Orochi

Scorpion Scrub
You have GL beats doomsday 6-4, Does he really have the advantage? I think the match is pretty even at best. I'll also go ahead and say that scorpion vs GL seems pretty even, Scorpion can't get jumpy because of lift and GL has good punishes for whiffed/blocked teles.
 
Crimson Panther

Crimson Panther

Noob
Zogyark said:
You have GL beats doomsday 6-4, Does he really have the advantage? I think the match is pretty even at best. I'll also go ahead and say that scorpion vs GL seems pretty even, Scorpion can't get jumpy because of lift and GL has good punishes for whiffed/blocked teles.
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This is true. I'm working on the DD MU. I don't wholeheartedly believe it's 6-4 right now. I'll put a "?" on it.

The Scorpion MU is based off of pre-patch Scorpion so I'll put a "?" on there as well.
 
S

shoshinsha

Apprentice
Why is Superman 4-6? I've had a number of Superman players (including some high-level ones) say that they feel GL has the advantage in that fight.
 
THTB

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
I really do think Bane is 4-6 Bane, after playing PND_Mustard for a good lengthy set and having troubles with Bane from others.

No, I'm not just in a state of salt, because I've been trying to figure this matchup out for a while now. Hear me out on this one.

The thing with Bane is, you don't want to be close. Yeah, of course. HOWEVER, here's where the whole idea of keepaway sorta falters a little bit. Bane's venom charge forces you to mini gun, specifically trait mini gun. However, that's only a good few seconds of being able to stop his charge from full screen. The problem with mini gun, though, is GL has to MB it constantly to keep Bane from charging on the whiff, and this only really is a great idea with trait up, because if mini gun whiffs just once, Bane can charge on whiff, and he's pretty much in, block or hit. Not to mention, when blocked, you have to MB OR, or Bane will just dash in, unless he's level 3. At that point, Bane gives no fucks about ANYTHING not mini gun.

The whole keepaway process sucks simply because you're constantly burning through meter to keep him there, because it's the only way you will. Once in, you might as well hope you didn't blow everything on mini gun. Wakeups are out of the question, and GL's backdash is so bad, it's very easy to catch him with Bane's stuff. So up close he's mauling you. But what about once venom runs out? If you managed to survive his onslaught without too much damage taken...what are you doing to get into his face? His backdash is retarded good, even with the debuffs. You have to do stuff like OR or LM to catch backdashes, and without much meter that you may have spent trying to keep Bane away, you don't really have much left to convert for damage on those options.

Bane forces GL into using too much meter for him to get damage where he can, and can even fuck him over for using the meter pretty well. Without meter, Bane becomes extremely difficult to manage. With meter, you can do stuff, but you have to make the right reads way too often with it for the usage to pay off. Not to mention you're stuck trying to keep Bane full screen, with a keepaway game that doesn't necessarily keep him out.

I'm willing to hear what everyone else is doing to combat Bane, but I don't see how GL wins it, or even how it's even for him.
 
PND_Mustard

PND_Mustard

"More stealthful than the night"
Elder God
i 100% agree with the Bane MU being 4-6 Lantern, and here is why:

GL needs meter to keep Bane out, regular chaingun is not an issue as it can be easily reaction punished by a delayed raging charge, regular rocket is crouchable and GL cannot enhance it because he NEEDS MB chaingun to keep Bane away, he lives and dies by MB chaingun in this MU.

this means that GL will always have very little meter, which in turn makes it very easy for Bane to wager for health, Bane doesn't need to use any meter at all unless you're powering up charges or setting up something meaty in the corner with MB double punch.

but the main meat and potatoes of this for Bane comes from the fact GL has an awful backdash and just as bad wakeup attacks. if Bane is on venom (which he will be as GL can't stop it) he can't wakeup at any point to beat a command grab, and his backdash only works from certain ranges after a raging charge, other than that he is forced to guess in a worse way than other characters, as he has less ways to escape.

to top it all off GL can't chip you from fullscreen even with trait, which means GL can never be fullscreen away from you, and he must come to closer distances than the other zoners that Bane struggles against to even chip you, which means Bane is always one dash away from being in GL's face.

the only reason we consider it a 6-4 Bane and not any worse, is because MB chain gun does a monstrous amount of damage. a trait MB chaingun does 34%, which is pretty much the same amount as our level 3 charge MB.
 
THTB

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
PND_Mustard said:
a trait MB chaingun does 34%, which is pretty much the same amount as our level 3 charge MB.
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It does 23% (luckily unclashable), more with venom debuffs, but during debuffs, why would Bane be falling for MB mini gun is the problem lol. Still a hefty chunk, but considering Bane getting in oftentimes completely offsets it, it's only a small to medium reward.
 
PND_Mustard

PND_Mustard

"More stealthful than the night"
Elder God
THTB said:
It does 23% (luckily unclashable), more with venom debuffs, but during debuffs, why would Bane be falling for MB mini gun is the problem lol. Still a hefty chunk, but considering Bane getting in oftentimes completely offsets it, it's only a small to medium reward.
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really? i must have caught it as i debuffed and ended normally, still 1/4 life though yeah
 
CrimsonShadow

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Does anyone else have issues with the oki game vs. Batman? I feel like some strange things happen vs. the bat. For instance, when he gets a longer hard knockdown, his b1 seems to stuff out wakeups, and even catch wakeup backdash attempts. Also his j2 seems to be harder to catch with lift than a lot of other jumping attacks in the game.

Sometimes it seems like you're forced to block the 50/50 on wakeup because anything else will fail.

Generally I do pretty well in the matchup -- but I'm still working on figuring exactly what's going on with the oki puzzle.
 
Crimson Panther

Crimson Panther

Noob
PND_Mustard said:
i 100% agree with the Bane MU being 4-6 Lantern, and here is why:

GL needs meter to keep Bane out, regular chaingun is not an issue as it can be easily reaction punished by a delayed raging charge, regular rocket is crouchable and GL cannot enhance it because he NEEDS MB chaingun to keep Bane away, he lives and dies by MB chaingun in this MU.

this means that GL will always have very little meter, which in turn makes it very easy for Bane to wager for health, Bane doesn't need to use any meter at all unless you're powering up charges or setting up something meaty in the corner with MB double punch.

but the main meat and potatoes of this for Bane comes from the fact GL has an awful backdash and just as bad wakeup attacks. if Bane is on venom (which he will be as GL can't stop it) he can't wakeup at any point to beat a command grab, and his backdash only works from certain ranges after a raging charge, other than that he is forced to guess in a worse way than other characters, as he has less ways to escape.

to top it all off GL can't chip you from fullscreen even with trait, which means GL can never be fullscreen away from you, and he must come to closer distances than the other zoners that Bane struggles against to even chip you, which means Bane is always one dash away from being in GL's face.

the only reason we consider it a 6-4 Bane and not any worse, is because MB chain gun does a monstrous amount of damage. a trait MB chaingun does 34%, which is pretty much the same amount as our level 3 charge MB.
Click to expand...
So 6-4 in favor of Bane?

Sent from my SCH-R830 using Tapatalk 2
 
Crimson Panther

Crimson Panther

Noob
THTB said:
I really do think Bane is 4-6 Bane, after playing PND_Mustard for a good lengthy set and having troubles with Bane from others.

No, I'm not just in a state of salt, because I've been trying to figure this matchup out for a while now. Hear me out on this one.

The thing with Bane is, you don't want to be close. Yeah, of course. HOWEVER, here's where the whole idea of keepaway sorta falters a little bit. Bane's venom charge forces you to mini gun, specifically trait mini gun. However, that's only a good few seconds of being able to stop his charge from full screen. The problem with mini gun, though, is GL has to MB it constantly to keep Bane from charging on the whiff, and this only really is a great idea with trait up, because if mini gun whiffs just once, Bane can charge on whiff, and he's pretty much in, block or hit. Not to mention, when blocked, you have to MB OR, or Bane will just dash in, unless he's level 3. At that point, Bane gives no fucks about ANYTHING not mini gun.

The whole keepaway process sucks simply because you're constantly burning through meter to keep him there, because it's the only way you will. Once in, you might as well hope you didn't blow everything on mini gun. Wakeups are out of the question, and GL's backdash is so bad, it's very easy to catch him with Bane's stuff. So up close he's mauling you. But what about once venom runs out? If you managed to survive his onslaught without too much damage taken...what are you doing to get into his face? His backdash is retarded good, even with the debuffs. You have to do stuff like OR or LM to catch backdashes, and without much meter that you may have spent trying to keep Bane away, you don't really have much left to convert for damage on those options.

Bane forces GL into using too much meter for him to get damage where he can, and can even fuck him over for using the meter pretty well. Without meter, Bane becomes extremely difficult to manage. With meter, you can do stuff, but you have to make the right reads way too often with it for the usage to pay off. Not to mention you're stuck trying to keep Bane full screen, with a keepaway game that doesn't necessarily keep him out.

I'm willing to hear what everyone else is doing to combat Bane, but I don't see how GL wins it, or even how it's even for him.
Click to expand...
I recently played a really good Bane. Though I won more than he it was surprisingly difficult. I thought it was lack of MU knowledge.

Sent from my SCH-R830 using Tapatalk 2
 
Squizz

Squizz

Corps Speedster
How the FUCK do you beat Ares? He lives in both of GL's deadzones and can tele any missle barely punishable with ring grab and can projectile any air incoming turbine. Please help I'm tired of losing to my roommate
 
Orochi

Orochi

Scorpion Scrub
Air OA's rocket will shut down his zoning after that he'll probably teleport then it's a close up fight from there on.
 
Squizz

Squizz

Corps Speedster
Zogyark
Checked out your latest Youtube video. Gave me some hope for GL after a day of getting my ass beat by my roommates Ares. Thanks man, keep up the good work.
 
CitizenSnips

CitizenSnips

A seldom used crab named Lucky. AKA Citizen Snips.
I don't really keep up with this game too much, is Green Lantern still considered one of the best characters? I remember people talked about him being the best, and I didn't really agree but I kept my mouth shut because honestly I haven't been a ton of time into the game.
 
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