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Guide Shazam BnBs may 2013

iShinnok03

iShinnok03

Noob
So after watching some comment saying B3 J3 J2 1 xx AC MB 12 xx HM MB J3 AC (48%) was Shazam's most damaging combo midscreen I decided to do some testing and found that HM at the end actually did 49% lol. Well, here are some other combos, if anyone has already posted them I apologize in advance, I will put in parenthesis trait damage as the last guy did:

Midscreen:

D2 J2 1 xx AC MB 12 xx HM MB J3 HM = 34% [46%]
AAD2 J3 1 xx AC MB 12 xx HM MB J3 HM = 36% [51%]
AAJ2 J2 1 xx AC MB 12 xx HM MB J3 HM = 46% [57%]
F223 1 xx AC MB 12 xx HM MB J3 HM = 43% [59%]
F3 J3 1 xx AC MB 12 xx HM MB J3 HM = 47% [63%]
J3 3 xx HM MB B3 J3 2 xx AC MB 12 xx HM = 53% [66%]

Corner:

112 J2 1 xx AC MB 12 xx HM MB J3 HM = 43% [63%]
F223 112 3 xx AC MB 12 xx HM MB J3 HM = 45% [63%]
J3 3 xx AC MB 12 xx HM MB J3 HM = 51% [64%]

Stage bounce:

D2 J2 1 bounce B3 J3 2 xx AC MB 12 xx HM MB J3 HM = 38% [51%]
HM MB bounce B3 J3 2 xx AC MB 12 xx HM = 43% [52%]
1 bounce B3 J3 J2 1 xx AC MB 12 xx HM MB J3 HM = 48% [61%]
F3 J3 1 bounce J2 1 xx AC MB 12 xx HM MB J3 HM = 50% (52% if you use J3 instead of J2 but it's too difficult) [66%]
J3 1 bounce B3 J3 2 xx AC MB 12 xx HM MB J3 HM = 54% [71%]

FOS Lab:

Ship trait 1 bounce B3 J3 2 xx AC MB 12 xx HM MB J3 HM = 65%
J3 3 teleporter trait J3 112 112 xx AC MB 12 HM MB B3 HM = 58%


Metropolis Street:

J3 3 xx AC MB 12 xx HM MB J3 bullets B3 HM = 59% [73%]
 
iShinnok03

iShinnok03

Noob
Shazam is a meter whore sadly, I do think is worth at least using 2 bars, since you gain almost half a bar at the end of this combos, so you would be using like 1.5 bars lol.
 
S

stealthychainsawninja

Noob
iShinnok03 said:
Shazam is a meter whore sadly, I do think is worth at least using 2 bars, since you gain almost half a bar at the end of this combos, so you would be using like 1.5 bars lol.
Click to expand...
It's precisely because Shazam uses so much meter that 2 bar combos usually aren't worth doing. That said, I've closed out a good number of games using them, and there some that can add about 15-20%, so they're not exactly something that should be ignored, just less prioritized.
 
iShinnok03

iShinnok03

Noob
Yeah, and even then, the timing is too strict to be used consistently. Better just do B3 J3 J2 1 xx AC MB 12 xx HM MB J3 HM which is 49%.
 
MashPotatoTower

MashPotatoTower

Noob
stealthychainsawninja said:
It's precisely because Shazam uses so much meter that 2 bar combos usually aren't worth doing. That said, I've closed out a good number of games using them, and there some that can add about 15-20%, so they're not exactly something that should be ignored, just less prioritized.
Click to expand...
I think SHAZAM players will benefit more from using there trait instead of pissing away meter
 
iShinnok03

iShinnok03

Noob
stealthychainsawninja said:
It's precisely because Shazam uses so much meter that 2 bar combos usually aren't worth doing. That said, I've closed out a good number of games using them, and there some that can add about 15-20%, so they're not exactly something that should be ignored, just less prioritized.
Click to expand...

I agree, I wouldn't waste meter unless the difference in damage is high enough.
 
Shawi

Shawi

Noob
Just reading through these posts quickly and MashPotatoTower is absolutely correct. It is so not worth it to use more than a bar.

1. You need a bar for AC mb setups
2. To even do a combo
3. To push block
4. For wagers
5. To mb interactables

One thing I hate is not getting the first hit because if I get in, I can't do anything.

However, great work with the combos. They are cool and they look AWESOME - SHAZAM!
 
Shawi

Shawi

Noob
MashPotatoTower said:
Shazams, I think ending combos in a safe trait is the best way to go for maximizing the power of Shazam. This is the wisdom of Solomon
Click to expand...
It is still useless in my opinion. Ending with a trait after a hard knockdown is giving up on getting a HM if they don't wakeup.
 
S

stealthychainsawninja

Noob
MashPotatoTower said:
Shazams, I think ending combos in a safe trait is the best way to go for maximizing the power of Shazam. This is the wisdom of Solomon
Click to expand...
I've been trying to think of a way to do this as well, and I believe it works well in the corner. But midscreen, I'm not sure how to go about it. Whether doing trait in or at the end of a combo, you have to sacrifice either damage or oki to do it. I found a few mid-screen combos that sacrifice 12-15% for a trait into sweep ender, but even then, as far as I can tell by looking at the numbers, in order to actually deal more damage this way, Shazam has to either make his next combo damage-focused and sacrifice pressure, or land a sweep-ender combo and then a damage-focused combo. With the first option, the difference is about 1-3% (general estimation) more or less than he would normally deal (so about the same damage), and then he has to work his way back in, by which time the trait will likely be gone. With the latter, the increase in overall damage is about 5-7% (again, general estimation), and in my opinion, not worth the risk.

Ending combos with trait itself by doing something like d2 xx trait or 112 xx trait as an ender gives him about 10 seconds to get back in and deal damage, which isn't easy for Shazam against the majority of the cast. The damage lost from such an ender is about 5% in comparison to a damage-focused ender, which is approximately the amount gained from trait sweep enders relative to non-trait sweep enders. So in order to get a noticeable net gain, he has to either get in with enough time to land a sweep-ender combo and a follow-up combo (so get in and start a combo within about 2.5 seconds, very difficult and trait will likely run out during the second combo), or get in and land a damage-focused combo (Shazam has about 5 seconds to get in for trait to last a full combo), again sacrificing pressure and getting an extra ~10-12% relative to a non-trait damage-focused combo. So essentially, you are gambling about 5% for a potential 5-7% gain. Not sure how I feel about this. On the off-chance Shazam does get in in time for both a traited sweep ender and follow-up traited combo, the opponent's health bar will be empty, but this is almost true as well for two non-traited damage-focused combos and a non-traited sweep ender (the opponent's health bar will be either empty or within a few percent of empty if it starts at 100%), so I don't think it's a significant possibility to consider.

I don't think I like this idea of ending midscreen combos in trait, not really because of the small-scale damage gambling, but because it sacrifices pressure, but I'm open to other opinions on it. Please tell me if I've overlooked something major as well. I know I'm not considering 2 bar combos and AC enders above, for example. 2 bar combos at a glance don't look like they fare much better mathematically and I dislike AC enders, though I believe the latter gets a bit more damage out of traiting. I've also ignored trait chip damage, as I've never been able to make use of it (Is there any good way to take advantage of this?).
 
MashPotatoTower

MashPotatoTower

Noob
stealthychainsawninja said:
snip
Click to expand...

I strongly disagree because of what iv come up with so far. The stuff im working with will decrease his damage by about 2%-3%, keeps within a HM distance, and wastes no to minimal burning time of trait, and safe from super mans 2 frame super. Take into account you get about a 15% combo damage boost, a whopping 2% pressure boost, and build meter 5 times fast from blocks and hits. The huge meter intake it great for Shazam.

However your concerns make scene to not just pop onto this thread. I will make a separate trait ender bnb thread and see what all the Shazams think and get their input. I myself am adapting this style indefinitely because of my results
 
Btt Ownge Mble

Btt Ownge Mble

Noob
MashPotatoTower said:
I strongly disagree because of what iv come up with so far. The stuff im working with will decrease his damage by about 2%-3%, keeps within a HM distance, and wastes no to minimal burning time of trait, and safe from super mans 2 frame super. Take into account you get about a 15% combo damage boost, a whopping 2% pressure boost, and build meter 5 times fast from blocks and hits. The huge meter intake it great for Shazam.

However your concerns make scene to not just pop onto this thread. I will make a separate trait ender bnb thread and see what all the Shazams think and get their input. I myself am adapting this style indefinitely because of my results
Click to expand...

Hold on hold on.... so have we determined that trait increases block stun and builds meter faster? Cause if that's the case I gotta find more ways to use his trait... I'm going to try some trait setups when I get back, see how they work.
 
MashPotatoTower

MashPotatoTower

Noob
Btt Ownge Mble said:
Hold on hold on.... so have we determined that trait increases block stun and builds meter faster? Cause if that's the case I gotta find more ways to use his trait... I'm going to try some trait setups when I get back, see how they work.
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It does not at all increase block stun, but I have confirmed way back when in the general discussions that meter building is based on damage and his chip damage goes up 200% and regular damage goes up 15%ish
 
Btt Ownge Mble

Btt Ownge Mble

Noob
MashPotatoTower said:
It does not at all increase block stun, but I have confirmed way back when in the general discussions that meter building is based on damage and his chip damage goes up 200% and regular damage goes up 15%ish
Click to expand...
Ah ok, I was confused by what you meant by "2% pressure boost". The problem I still see is that most of his fist based strings start high... so you can be poked out of them. although if you managed to land a YOLO b2~HM MB then you could probably do some sick damage there. I need to check whether trait affects damage on Atlas Torpedo. I thought I noticed the damage being a little higher there but I'll confirm and then check back in
 
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