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Is this game too easy from an execution standpoint?

SaltShaker

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Soulzityr said:
Just because the learning curve isn't as steep doesn't mean lesser skilled players > better skilled players. Whatever the lesser skilled player does to win, the better skilled player had the same exact tools available to him. Unless you're just referring to complexity of combos as differentiating between high and low skill people. In which case, someone who can hit that 1 frame link is much better than the person who can't, as opposed to the lesser skilled person who has better footsies than the higher skilled person he just beat might actually mean he was better strategically?
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Kind of what you meant in the 2nd part. Yea if you win you def were the better player in this game. I agree. I mean the complexity, the difficulty in executing the actual elements of the fight. If you took a guy who is just learning to play fighting games, and let him play the top 10 fighters 1 week at a time, he'll be better at Injustice than any of the other fighters.
 
shaowebb

shaowebb

Get your guns on. Sheriff is back.
DuskAlloy said:
Do you still play it?
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Not since the launch of Injustice, but I dont consider it "dropped" yet. I absolutely love the game. Most balanced roster I've ever seen and its 3 man marathon style of team building creates incredible depth to your gameplan just based on setting up your order based on meter build vs matchup.

I play Andy, K', EX Kyo. Used to also play Vice and Chin, but didn't like my setup. Now I just use well rounded Andy to start my game with an average mix of good meter and good damage, and utilize K' and Ex Kyo for corner carry damage. K' was my anchor, but Ex Kyo has a better midscreen game so he fit better at combating folks able to rush down and stay on top of K' (KIM).

I only had one other dude locally who'd play me and he dropped it. Too hard to stay on top of. Sad too because I really liked his King/Ralf/Kim team. I lost my only local dude due to how balls hard that game is to consistently hit your combos on. Best footsies, best system, best balance, and worst inputs.



Switch to 8:01 to watch the hype disrespecting of Chris G.

If a game this hype has a small community then you should realize how important ease of entry inputs is to incorporate.
 
Protagonist_1

Protagonist_1

Champion
I'm probably one of the few casual players that likes execution barriers. For example, I like tekken and KOF, mainly for their difficulty to master.

For example, Mishima's in tekken tag 2 are the best characters in the game, but the high execution barrier prevents any top level player from learning that character in a short period of time. Hitting a just frame, or a tough combo in game is just a great feeling. Hardwork and getting results. If someone is willing to go the extra mile for execution, then I feel they deserve to be rewarded. Just my 2 cents
 
DuskAlloy

DuskAlloy

You don't got the cash, You don't get the ass
shaowebb said:
Not since the launch of Injustice, but I dont consider it "dropped" yet. I absolutely love the game. Most balanced roster I've ever seen and its 3 man marathon style of team building creates incredible depth to your gameplan just based on setting up your order based on meter build vs matchup.

I play Andy, K', EX Kyo. Used to also play Vice and Chin, but didn't like my setup. Now I just use well rounded Andy to start my game with an average mix of good meter and good damage, and utilize K' and Ex Kyo for corner carry damage. K' was my anchor, but Ex Kyo has a better midscreen game so he fit better at combating folks able to rush down and stay on top of K' (KIM).

I only had one other dude locally who'd play me and he dropped it. Too hard to stay on top of. Sad too because I really liked his King/Ralf/Kim team. I lost my only local dude due to how balls hard that game is to consistently hit your combos on. Best footsies, best system, best balance, and worst inputs.
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Yeah my usual team is clark, terry, shen/ ex kyo, claw iori, ralf usually, god i love the game but no one on my friends list plays it lol
 
B

Badboy Takuma

Champion
Definitely!
imho high execution prevents uneducated casuals with lack of fundamentals to be part of the player base, for me that is ok because of higher "versus" quality and better matches!
Then they have two choices imo:
1- Lern the game proper, and learn all about fighting games fundamentals ect
2-GTFO
 
DuskAlloy

DuskAlloy

You don't got the cash, You don't get the ass
MAPUSA said:
Definitely!
imho high execution prevents uneducated casuals with lack of fundamentals to be part of the player base, for me that is ok because of higher "versus" quality and better matches!
Then they have two choices imo:
1- Lern the game proper, and learn all about fighting games fundamentals ect
2-GTFO
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I love how you cut out the mexican part lol
 
SaltShaker

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
DuskAlloy said:
You know even if you dont like playing Kof, its still a good buy because if you can get the trials down in that game then execution in most other games should be easy lol
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I love KOF man. I played it for months on in but I could never get past "slightly above average". I've dropped more combos with Kula than all 2D games combined within that span!!! That's an example of execution being a lil too hard. But the game is probably the best 2D out there.
 
sub_on_dubs

sub_on_dubs

Online Scrub Lord
Nrs games are the easiest fighting games out there. This game is just as easy as Mk9 unless you're using Kabal. Now, to actually be a top player in this game is a whole different story.
 
shaowebb

shaowebb

Get your guns on. Sheriff is back.
Honestly I dont think any other game has ever been as hard on inputs as KoF XIII its generally the easiest way to gauge if you've gone too far. Sad too...my God the hype that game bleeds. Best use of meter in a game design I've ever seen. How do you deal with infinites? You make them cost a full bar and let em rock on a timer, then utilize a system that essentially demands you spend meter to utilize move canceling in order to make recovery on moves small enough to land huge combos. If you got the chops to do those combos and are willing to spend everything to hit one then we wanna see it, but its risk/reward baby.

Creates a game where you go from SF style poke and small punish into marvel style shenanigan combos...but at what cost...you still have a 3 man team to go through and meter/damage carries over. There next dude can crush you with a start up of full bars, and a life lead.

Shit is hype...shit is HARD. Be thankful this game is easy on inputs folks. If the game meta was hidden behind an execution wall it'd be so bad.
 
K

Killzone

Warrior
bloodsport said:
this sentence makes no sense
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He means, that lesser skilled players go for the braindead tactics like picking up interactive objects and throwing them and that they have more success with that, than someone who has a lot of skill and tries to somehow make that work in this game.

I had matches, where I had the momentum with Doomsday and was throwing stuff at my opponent in Arkham Asylum, supernovaing him, throwing more objects and doing Earthshakes. He ragequit.
I saw matches, where someone tried to use cheap tactics, but the opponent used perfectly timed MB F3's / B3's and changed the flow of the fight instantly.

I see where he is coming from, if he thinks that people who realize that this game (the engine) offers sooo much and therefore they try to make the best use of it might look less impressive sometimes, than people who simply pick stuff and throw it.
But once the actual thinkers have figured it out, this game will be a skill-fest and I'm looking forward to that.
 
DuskAlloy

DuskAlloy

You don't got the cash, You don't get the ass
shaowebb said:
Honestly I dont think any other game has ever been as hard on inputs as KoF XIII its generally the easiest way to gauge if you've gone too far. Sad too...my God the hype that game bleeds. Best use of meter in a game design I've ever seen. How do you deal with infinites? You make them cost a full bar and let em rock, then utilize a system that essentially demands you spend meter to utilize move canceling in order to make recovery on moves small enough to land huge combos. Creates a game where you go from SF style poke and small punish into marvel style shenanigan combos...but at what cost...you still have a 3 man team to go through and meter/damage carries over. There next dude can crush you with a start up of full bars, and a life lead.

Shit is hype...shit is HARD. Be thankful this game is easy on inputs folks. If the game meta was hidden behind an execution wall it'd be so bad.
Click to expand...
God now I gotta pick KOF back up again, hey do you have an xbox live account, I could use someone to play against?
 
shaowebb

shaowebb

Get your guns on. Sheriff is back.
Back on topic are there any moves folks feel in Injustice are too easy that should be changed or that you feel would be better suited to a different input?
 
DangerousBacon

DangerousBacon

Mechanical Engineering Bitch!
shaowebb said:
Honestly I dont think any other game has ever been as hard on inputs as KoF XIII its generally the easiest way to gauge if you've gone too far. Sad too...my God the hype that game bleeds. Best use of meter in a game design I've ever seen. How do you deal with infinites? You make them cost a full bar and let em rock on a timer, then utilize a system that essentially demands you spend meter to utilize move canceling in order to make recovery on moves small enough to land huge combos. If you got the chops to do those combos and are willing to spend everything to hit one then we wanna see it, but its risk/reward baby.

Creates a game where you go from SF style poke and small punish into marvel style shenanigan combos...but at what cost...you still have a 3 man team to go through and meter/damage carries over. There next dude can crush you with a start up of full bars, and a life lead.

Shit is hype...shit is HARD. Be thankful this game is easy on inputs folks. If the game meta was hidden behind an execution wall it'd be so bad.
Click to expand...

Calm down dude. You're going a little overboard. I'm afraid you might faint.
 
DuskAlloy

DuskAlloy

You don't got the cash, You don't get the ass
DangerousBacon said:
The only real crazy hype that I ever noticed from KOF was at EVO grand finals. Anywhere else, not so much.
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The game is amazing, it's just not may people play it because of th difficulty and the almost non existent scene in america
 
SaltShaker

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
shaowebb said:
Back on topic are there any moves folks feel in Injustice are too easy that should be changed or that you feel would be better suited to a different input?
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I've went deep on how I felt, but the actual single special moves and normals are ok. The only thing I would change is make Grundy's chain grabs a combination of 360,180, and 90 degree motions. Down down up up is too easy for that type of damage. I'd also have supers done in traditional fashion and not the two back buttons. That might be it though.
 
Bildslash

Bildslash

Goro Lives 
MAPUSA said:
Definitely!
imho high execution prevents uneducated casuals with lack of fundamentals to be part of the player base, for me that is ok because of higher "versus" quality and better matches!
Then they have two choices imo:
1- Lern the game proper, and learn all about fighting games fundamentals ect
2-GTFO
Click to expand...
Fundamentals =/= Execution

Fundamentals means knowing movement, spacing, poking, baiting, punishment, counters, mix ups, so on.

Fundamental stands for the basic, the core of the subject at hand.

The execution is what you need to optimize your net damage results and widen your options.

There are plenty of top FG players with poor execution, but great fundamentals. The reason they are successful is because of the latter not the former.
 
DangerousBacon

DangerousBacon

Mechanical Engineering Bitch!
SaltShaker said:
I've went deep on how I felt, but the actual single special moves and normals are ok. The only thing I would change is make Grundy's chain grabs a combination of 360,180, and 90 degree motions. Down down up up is too easy for that type of damage. I'd also have supers done in traditional fashion and not the two back buttons. That might be it though.
Click to expand...

So you want to make things unnecessarily complicated? Grundy already struggles against the top tier characters. No need to make him worse just because someone screwed up an input. It's your opinion though and I respect it.
 
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