Is this game too easy from an execution standpoint?

[hecta]

This game is as easy as it gets execution-wise (until Divekick), yet the netcode is bad enough that you are able to drop the easiest combos.

 

[Lumpymoomilk]

Why do people have a problem with safe strings? Thats one of the things i hated about some mks was all the unsafe bullshit. Im just wondering.

Just my opinion but I like a game with risk, making reads and reward, not pressing the combo I practiced over and over till it hits.

 

[SaltShaker]

......actually it is still a sentence.......................

and no it doesn't. a skilled person > an unskilled/lesser skilled person wat r u missing here?

English not your first language? I must have missed the part where quoting a few words out of what I was saying = my entire sentence.

Yes, if the execution level is too low it allows players with less gaming skill, who would most likely be slaughtered in SF, KOF, MK, etc, to perform better in THIS game. In SF for example you can't practice for 5 min with a brand new char and pull of 40%+ combos with ease. There's a much higher learning curve to perform well in the game. In almost any other game. Not in Injustice. MUCH less skill is required to pull off high damage, mixups, vortex, resets, etc, which lets players who wouldn't normally be as good in most fighters keep up with guys they wouldn't if it wasnt so easy to do everything.

 

[MagicMan357]

English not your first language? I must have missed the part where quoting a few words out of what I was saying = my entire sentence.

Yes, if the execution level is too low it allows players with less gaming skill, who would most likely be slaughtered in SF, KOF, MK, etc, to perform better in THIS game. In SF for example you can't practice for 5 min with a brand new char and pull of 40%+ combos with ease. There's a much higher learning curve to perform well in the game. In almost any other game. Not in Injustice. MUCH less skill is required to pull off high damage, mixups, vortex, resets, etc, which lets players who wouldn't normally be as good in most fighters keep up with guys they wouldn't if it wasnt so easy to do everything.

So what? Why do people want games for ego trips?

Half of the shit in SF's depth is fucking retarded and backfires on actual good players. Even high level SF players have said that (atleast about SF4). NRS makes games that are fun and easy to pick and play yet hard to actually master. This is why you constantly see people bash MK yet get mopped in it. Why the hell should it be hard to do a combo like seriously.

 

[SaltShaker]

So what? Why do people want games for ego trips?

Half of the shit in SF's depth is fucking retarded and backfires on actual good players. Even high level SF players have said that (atleast about SF4). NRS makes games that are fun and easy to pick and play yet hard to actually master. This is why you constantly see people bash MK yet get mopped in it. Why the hell should it be hard to do a combo like seriously.

Lol why would anyone want a game for an "ego trip"? Don't understand what you're trying to say there. People buy fighters because they want to play it.

I was using SF as an example, but you can use nearly any fighter that's come out in the last decade. Injustice is by far one of the easiest, if not the easiest fighting game. This game is not "hard" at all. Fun? Yes, very much so at times. Hard? Not even close.

My issue isn't that some combos are easy, it's that the BEST combos are easy. It shouldn't be that way. I'll use another example. Take Tekken. Most people can pick up Kazuya, a very popular char and top 3 in the game, and learn some decent damage combos to have fun and enjoy the game while being decent. They'll do good damage, good whiff punishing, mix up some people, etc. They'll enjoy competing with people around their level. But to be great with him you have to master EWGF and when to use it, master the step, practice the harder combos which do much more damage, etc. This is how a fighter should be. The more you put in, the bigger the barrier from someone who puts in less.

It's ridiculous that anyone with 5min of time can learn a chars 40%+ combos. It's even more ridiculous that some chars harder combos do LESS damage than their easier ones. That alone makes certain combos obsolete. In fighting games there should be setups, combos, vortex, etc, that only the high level players can do from many hours of practice, and those should also be the most rewarding. Not the case in Injustice. Lets not even go into super safe 40% mixups where the only "skill" involved is if you guessed correctly on block.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the game and will be playing it for a very long time, but it being so easy to pick up and do things some guys would never do in any other fighter on the market is a bit of a turn off at times.

 

[Pakman]

Turn off release check in the controller preset

Done that. Still get the stupid problem ;(

 

[Neariak]

Lol why would anyone want a game for an "ego trip"? Don't understand what you're trying to say there. People buy fighters because they want to play it.

I was using SF as an example, but you can use nearly any fighter that's come out in the last decade. Injustice is by far one of the easiest, if not the easiest fighting game. This game is not "hard" at all. Fun? Yes, very much so at times. Hard? Not even close.

My issue isn't that some combos are easy, it's that the BEST combos are easy. It shouldn't be that way. I'll use another example. Take Tekken. Most people can pick up Kazuya, a very popular char and top 3 in the game, and learn some decent damage combos to have fun and enjoy the game while being decent. They'll do good damage, good whiff punishing, mix up some people, etc. They'll enjoy competing with people around their level. But to be great with him you have to master EWGF and when to use it, master the step, practice the harder combos which do much more damage, etc. This is how a fighter should be. The more you put in, the bigger the barrier from someone who puts in less.

It's ridiculous that anyone with 5min of time can learn a chars 40%+ combos. It's even more ridiculous that some chars harder combos do LESS damage than their easier ones. That alone makes certain combos obsolete. In fighting games there should be setups, combos, vortex, etc, that only the high level players can do from many hours of practice, and those should also be the most rewarding. Not the case in Injustice. Lets not even go into super safe 40% mixups where the only "skill" involved is if you guessed correctly on block.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the game and will be playing it for a very long time, but it being so easy to pick up and do things some guys would never do in any other fighter on the market is a bit of a turn off at times.

::Cough:: Play Joker at a Major after spending 5 minutes with him ::Cough::

 

[SaltShaker]

::Cough:: Play Joker at a Major after spending 5 minutes with him ::Cough::

Nowhere in anything I wrote did I say 5min of practice turns you into a tourney player.

 

[bloodsport]

English not your first language? I must have missed the part where quoting a few words out of what I was saying = my entire sentence.

Yes, if the execution level is too low it allows players with less gaming skill, who would most likely be slaughtered in SF, KOF, MK, etc, to perform better in THIS game. In SF for example you can't practice for 5 min with a brand new char and pull of 40%+ combos with ease. There's a much higher learning curve to perform well in the game. In almost any other game. Not in Injustice. MUCH less skill is required to pull off high damage, mixups, vortex, resets, etc, which lets players who wouldn't normally be as good in most fighters keep up with guys they wouldn't if it wasnt so easy to do everything.

lol...... not sure if serious... english must not be my first language because i quoted a part of your post and referred to it as sentence when it does, in fact, work as a sentence on its own... gurl u cray.

so what you're saying is that you're upset at the fact that a player who can't beat you in another fighting game, can beat you in injustice? i mean i don't mean to call your point retarded, but...

 

[Neariak]

I was referring to your snippet of

It's ridiculous that anyone with 5min of time can learn a chars 40%+ combos. It's even more ridiculous that some chars harder combos do LESS damage than their easier ones. That alone makes certain combos obsolete. In fighting games there should be setups, combos, vortex, etc, that only the high level players can do from many hours of practice, and those should also be the most rewarding. Not the case in Injustice. Lets not even go into super safe 40% mixups where the only "skill" involved is if you guessed correctly on block.

Following this logic, anyone could spend 5 - 10 minutes in practice mode and be tourney ready or is the game actually harder than that? Cause all I am seeing this thread is a lot of QQ.

 

[DuskAlloy]

So what? Why do people want games for ego trips?

Half of the shit in SF's depth is fucking retarded and backfires on actual good players. Even high level SF players have said that (atleast about SF4). NRS makes games that are fun and easy to pick and play yet hard to actually master. This is why you constantly see people bash MK yet get mopped in it. Why the hell should it be hard to do a combo like seriously.

I actually love games with high execution like in KOF, it means that the people I play will either be great players or mexicans...

 

[Neariak]

Yes, if the execution level is too low it allows players with less gaming skill, who would most likely be slaughtered in SF, KOF, MK, etc, to perform better in THIS game. In SF for example you can't practice for 5 min with a brand new char and pull of 40%+ combos with ease. There's a much higher learning curve to perform well in the game. In almost any other game. Not in Injustice. MUCH less skill is required to pull off high damage, mixups, vortex, resets, etc, which lets players who wouldn't normally be as good in most fighters keep up with guys they wouldn't if it wasnt so easy to do everything.

You know theres a really simple answer to your bitching and moaning. Just don't play Injustice? Cause it seems like you don't enjoy it.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

Most combos in this game aren't really "super hard/complex" but the way they designed input recognition and the buffer window makes everything feel super scrubby.

So in the end combos are hard when they shouldn't be. Just look at any tournament footage we had so far. The majority of top players drop more than 60% of their combos and I'm not even exaggerating lol. The combo drop rate is much higher in Injustice than in MK, AE, SFxT or TTT2. There must be a reason for that aside from tourney nerves.

 

[DuskAlloy]

Comboes being easy to perform holds no bearing on how good a fighting game is, if you are getting aggravated by scrubs beating your ass with combos, then learn to play better so you dont get opened up as easily

 

[Neariak]

Comboes being easy to perform holds no bearing on how good a fighting game is, if you are getting aggravated by scrubs beating your ass with combos, then learn to play better so you dont get opened up as easily

My only complaints with this game so far....

Interactables = Pain

...Fix Joker's trait, his combos are fine, fix his trait and I would be hella happy

 

[Troispoint]

I do agree that those 40-50% combos are too easy to pull off in this game. But I never believed 1frame links for bnbs ever served anyone. It only creates an artificial barrier for a select few able to pull those off.

 

[shaowebb]

I think easy to execute moves and combos should be STANDARD. It opens up the genre to more people and grows the amount of stuff the community learns to do. In other games some folks never get unlocked because they are simply too awkward to input combos for. Spiderman is hardly played in UMVC3 because he has to do insanely fast shoryu's in mid air to land his combos so no one picks him up as he is easy to drop things with and dont get me started on how good Iron Man's tools are and that no one plays him either.

One of my favorite fighters is King of Fighters XIII and I dropped Marvel for it. That thing is soooooooo damned hard to start a scene for its stupid. The entry barrier of execution on some characters is insane. Look at the inputs you got to do for a Vice HD combo in that game and tell me that is a game that folks just hop onto. You cant. Its probably the most balanced and one of the most hype fighting games ever made and its community lives on word of mouth and on convincing people to spend months just improving their timing and even then even its best players drop the soap on their own combos regularly.

Easy inputs are not a negative thing for a fighting game. The fewer hurdles to jump between you regularly getting the combo you want when you want it on reaction the better and this should always be how designers tackle the issue IMO.

 

[DuskAlloy]

I think easy to execute moves and combos should be STANDARD. It opens up the genre to more people and grows the amount of stuff the community learns to do. In other games some folks never get unlocked because they are simply too awkward to input combos for. Spiderman is hardly played in UMVC3 because he has to do insanely fast shoryu's in mid air to land his combos so no one picks him up as he is easy to drop things with and dont get me started on how good Iron Man's tools are and that no one plays him either.

One of my favorite fighters is King of Fighters XIII and I dropped Marvel for it. That things is soooooooo damned hard to start a scene for its stupid. The entry barrier of execution on some characters is insane. Look at the inputs you got to do for a Vice HD combo in that game and tell me that is a game that folks just hop onto. You cant. Its probably the most balanced and one of the most hype fighting games ever made and its community lives on word of mouth and on convincing people to spend months just improving their timing and even then even its best drop the soap on their own combos regularly.

Easy inputs are not a negative thing for a fighting game. The fewer hurdles to jump between you regularly getting the combo you want when you want it on reaction the better and this should always be how designers tackle the issue IMO.

Appearently Mexicans are the master race of fighting games because they have no problem showing my ass up in KOF lol

 

[SaltShaker]

@ Bloodsport- I think you're mistaken where I'm coming from. I play tourney level Tekken, near tourney level Marvel, and enjoy other fighters. I'm pretty good in most 3D games (Tekken/VF/SoulCal), but I'm usually "ok" in non Marvel 2D games. The only reason I'm so good in THIS game is because it is so easy. I like the game, but I'm upset at how damn easy it is to do everything.

Every. Effective. Thing. Is. Easy.

That's what I'm saying. Which is why I say less skilled players can be good in this game because it takes less skill. Dudes are not walking up on any of the games I mentioned and doing maximum damage combos and resets with new chars in less than an hour. It just won't ever happen. Only in Injustice. I like to be rewarded for the time I put into a game. It feels good playing Tekken and knowing that my Heihachi EWGF anyone who breathes, and if you haven't put in the time to play and practice you can't do it, nor will you be able to stop it. That's my point.


@Neariak- You on the other hand are just saying something completely diff than I am. I never once mentioned anything to where 5min=tourney level, I said 5min=learning BnBs. HUGE diff. Knowing how to do set ups, combos, vortex, etc is not the same as applying them against better players. That has nothing to do with my point. My point was LEARNING the set ups, combos, vortex, is ridiculously too easy, and there should be a higher skill gap between say, the 27% combos and the 45% combos. 50/50s should be like the Mishima's or SF Cammy, not as easy and safe as Frost. Execution is ridiculously easy for no reason in this game, and there isn't a real fighter out even close. It would be better if there was much more separation from a combo leading to reset that Pig can do, compared to me watching his vid and doing it in 5min. Not that i'll ever beat Pig, but i shouldn't be able to do one of his best tech in no time at all. That's redunkulous. As is what the thread is about.

 

[shaowebb]

Appearently Mexicans are the master race of fighting games because they have no problem showing my ass up in KOF lol

Yeah Mexico loves them some KoF. Honestly its way bigger a fighter around the world, but over here in America it never seems to reach the community sizes of other countries. Japan, Korea, Mexico, Europe in general...its big in all those areas. In the states it resides on permanent life support. Considering its a game where every character can cancel moves into other moves and HD mode is like unlimited cancel combos you'd think Dante loving America would be all over it.

Truth is its too hard for most to stick with. When KOF XIV hits someday I honestly hope they make it with some easier inputs to lower the entry barrier into this amazing series for new folks.

 

[DuskAlloy]

Yeah Mexico loves them some KoF. Honestly its way bigger a fighter around the world, but over here in America it never seems to reach the community sizes of other countries. Japan, Korea, Mexico, Europe in general...its big in all those areas. In the states it resides on permanent life support. Considering its a game where every character can cancel moves into other moves and HD mode is like unlimited cancel combos you'd think Dante loving America would be all over it.

Truth is its too hard for most to stick with. When KOF XIV hits someday I honestly hope they make it with some easier inputs to lower the entry barrier into this amazing series for new folks.

Do you still play it?

 

[Soulzityr]

English not your first language? I must have missed the part where quoting a few words out of what I was saying = my entire sentence.

Yes, if the execution level is too low it allows players with less gaming skill, who would most likely be slaughtered in SF, KOF, MK, etc, to perform better in THIS game. In SF for example you can't practice for 5 min with a brand new char and pull of 40%+ combos with ease. There's a much higher learning curve to perform well in the game. In almost any other game. Not in Injustice. MUCH less skill is required to pull off high damage, mixups, vortex, resets, etc, which lets players who wouldn't normally be as good in most fighters keep up with guys they wouldn't if it wasnt so easy to do everything.

Just because the learning curve isn't as steep doesn't mean lesser skilled players > better skilled players. Whatever the lesser skilled player does to win, the better skilled player had the same exact tools available to him. Unless you're just referring to complexity of combos as differentiating between high and low skill people. In which case, someone who can hit that 1 frame link is much better than the person who can't but still won at footsies?

To be honest though interactables kinda change my argument. I believe it's possible that we break the maps down to where interactables are understood well enough to be part of everyone's game strategy but right now since our knowledge as a community is rather limited on the subject it's hard to consider it more than a pseudo-random variable.

 

[SaltShaker]

I think easy to execute moves and combos should be STANDARD. It opens up the genre to more people and grows the amount of stuff the community learns to do. In other games some folks never get unlocked because they are simply too awkward to input combos for. Spiderman is hardly played in UMVC3 because he has to do insanely fast shoryu's in mid air to land his combos so no one picks him up as he is easy to drop things with and dont get me started on how good Iron Man's tools are and that no one plays him either.

One of my favorite fighters is King of Fighters XIII and I dropped Marvel for it. That thing is soooooooo damned hard to start a scene for its stupid. The entry barrier of execution on some characters is insane. Look at the inputs you got to do for a Vice HD combo in that game and tell me that is a game that folks just hop onto. You cant. Its probably the most balanced and one of the most hype fighting games ever made and its community lives on word of mouth and on convincing people to spend months just improving their timing and even then even its best players drop the soap on their own combos regularly.

Easy inputs are not a negative thing for a fighting game. The fewer hurdles to jump between you regularly getting the combo you want when you want it on reaction the better and this should always be how designers tackle the issue IMO.

KOF is the opposite end of the spectrum. Probably my fav of all 2D fighters, but god damn is it hard to be really good in that game. Imo somewhere in the middle is where it should be. Easy enough for casuals to feel Boss, but higher difficulty stuff for the hardcores and pros.

 

[DuskAlloy]

KOF is the opposite end of the spectrum. Probably my fav of all 2D fighters, but god damn is it hard to be really good in that game. Imo somewhere in the middle is where it should be. Easy enough for casuals to feel Boss, but higher difficulty stuff for the hardcores and pros.

You know even if you dont like playing Kof, its still a good buy because if you can get the trials down in that game then execution in most other games should be easy lol

 

[Chrishaspads]

Turn off release check in the controller preset

yeah i know but execution wise, he is stupid easy to execute combos.