Match-up Discussion Bane Matchup Discussion

[Doombawkz]

You're smoking crack.

You act like you are going to stuff them EVERY time and that they will do no damage at all while you are trying to get in on them.

Honestly as Bane, what else do we have aside from frame traps and oki game?
Its not even a matter of what they have, its our own limited tools. For us, oki and traps are all

 

[big_aug]

Honestly as Bane, what else do we have aside from frame traps and oki game?
Its not even a matter of what they have, its our own limited tools. For us, oki and traps are all

Exactly. Bane is fucked.

And people don't even know how to play against him. God forbid when people know what to do.

 

[Doombawkz]

Exactly. Bane is fucked.

And people don't even know how to play against him. God forbid when people know what to do.

That's why I want to put things off for now. Theres a bit of stuff i'm looking into, and if you know anthing about me I don't look into stuff that doesn't help the only guy I play. Keep your eyes open.

 

[Khaoz77]

As Bane, I can't do shit against Black Adam. That is not a matchup, its a massacre. ANY Black Adam that loses to Bane should just drop the character, that's how bad it is.

 

[Qwark28]

Some games against Metzos 's Doomsday and Grundy and Rapshody's Superman.

I think DD is 4-6 at worst, maybe it's even. Grundy is 4-6 definately.

http://www.twitch.tv/zaelock/b/411174790

Starts at 2:09:02 then 2:30:00 or so until 2:59:00

I play Bane as a 3rd char or so and don't practice body press alot, hate having to do it on both xbox and ps3, fucks up my execution and I end up doing random standing 3s and F3s which judging from the way they're blocked I'd be spot on with the body press read.

 

[Doombawkz]

Some games against Metzos 's Doomsday and Grundy and Rapshody's Superman.

I think DD is 4-6 at worst, maybe it's even. Grundy is 4-6 definately.

http://www.twitch.tv/zaelock/b/411174790

Starts at 2:09:02 then 2:30:00 or so until 2:59:00

I play Bane as a 3rd char or so and don't practice body press alot, hate having to do it on both xbox and ps3, fucks up my execution and I end up doing random standing 3s and F3s which judging from the way they're blocked I'd be spot on with the body press read.

4-6 as in they are the 6?
If so, no for grundy. b.1 into anything and he can't do bollocks about our block strings. Can't super us, hell once we hit level 3 he can't even use special attacks anymore for 6 seconds, then has to fanangle his way through a 12 second frame trap that practically never ends. His backdash is also something that we can take advantage of iirc.

Doomsday is also not a 6 against us. He is probably the only character we naturally outdamage aside from deathstroke, we can laugh at his trait and do our strings on him and he can't do a thing about it. Trait? d.1 b.1 loops forever, enjoy taking the damage. If he gets us in the corner we can just MB body press on wake-up and chuck him into it where we are much more dangerous. We can stop supernova with venom upper, everything else gets double punched in the face on wake-up. Also his attacks are a little on the slow side so once he is in the frame traps its not easy for him to get out.

 

[Qwark28]

4-6 as in they are the 6?
If so, no for grundy. b.1 into anything and he can't do bollocks about our block strings. Can't super us, hell once we hit level 3 he can't even use special attacks anymore for 6 seconds, then has to fanangle his way through a 12 second frame trap that practically never ends. His backdash is also something that we can take advantage of iirc.

Doomsday is also not a 6 against us. He is probably the only character we naturally outdamage aside from deathstroke, we can laugh at his trait and do our strings on him and he can't do a thing about it. Trait? d.1 b.1 loops forever, enjoy taking the damage. If he gets us in the corner we can just MB body press on wake-up and chuck him into it where we are much more dangerous. We can stop supernova with venom upper, everything else gets double punched in the face on wake-up. Also his attacks are a little on the slow side so once he is in the frame traps its not easy for him to get out.

Outdamage? SMH, this "doomsday has no damage" bullshit is still going on?

Your logic of a bad matchup is "can't super" and "once we hit lvl 3"? What happens if you're caught at lvl 3? 50% Command grab at best. What 12 second frametrap?

Have you ever played a good doomsday? You don't laugh at his trait, Bane has slow attacks and has to go lvl3 in order to nullify it. MB body press can be jumped, same as double punch and full combo punished for 40% into oki in the corner.

Good luck landing those frametraps on doomsday, you can't jump in on him and you always have to respect venom and his D1 to earth shake.

From the fast reply I get you haven't even watched the footage. From the reply itself I get you've never played a good doomsday.

 

[Doombawkz]

Outdamage? SMH, this "doomsday has no damage" bullshit is still going on?

Your logic of a bad matchup is "can't super" and "once we hit lvl 3"? What happens if you're caught at lvl 3? 50% Command grab at best. What 12 second frametrap?

Have you ever played a good doomsday? You don't laugh at his trait, Bane has slow attacks and has to go lvl3 in order to nullify it. MB body press can be jumped, same as double punch and full combo punished for 40% into oki in the corner.

Good luck landing those frametraps on doomsday, you can't jump in on him and you always have to respect venom and his D1 to earth shake.

From the fast reply I get you haven't even watched the footage. From the reply itself I get you've never played a good doomsday.

He cannot use super against us. Plain and simple. He has no wake-ups against us because we can b.1 anything and eat through any of his wake-up attempts from cleaver to WCC and onwards.

I played a decent doomsday, and Bane's normal are not all that slow, especially given the advantage they reap. To my knowledge he takes "reduced" stun, but unless he has a 1 frame start-up on his attacks he isn't going to be moving for 12 seconds onwards. Don't even get me started about the corner. We don't even need to nullify it, we can just bully him and his complete lack of armor.

Doomsday can jump double punch and MB body press on reaction while we are stuffing his ground pound oki? I'll have to alert the media. Or perhaps he gets chewed through by our wake-up invuln while he is trying to oki and gets to enjoy a tasty meal of +17.

Its not all that hard to frame-trap doomsday. We really don't even have to respect him when his trait is up since pretty much any landed d.1 (even when it is off) gives us enough advantage to keep clicking him and clicking him while he struggles to make use of the 1f of actual usable movement before getting clicked into more and more shenanigans. IF we decide to go level 3 (since frankly we don't have much need to) then we can chew through everything for 6 seconds, turtle his low (yes, its low. If your full combo punish is only 40% in the corner that's pretty weak) damage attempts or just keep him locked down until we are off CD.

That 1f is if we choose to give it to him too, since honestly we can go for about 8 seconds give or take while giving up literally no open frames to the opponent. +17, +12, and so on. I'll watch your clip because I have nothing better to do, but really just from what you are saying I can tell you aren't as in-depth with Bane as you could be. Questioning his 12 second frame trap in itself, for example, when we have much much longer traps we can do.

 

[Doombawkz]

Saw your match against supes, aside from the random f.2 you go into level 3 way too often. If you are going to clash, don't bother going to level 3. You don't use his b.23 reset and you seem to be getting the power punch instead of overhead a lot. You should be a bit more liberal with your b.1 usage, it links into sooo much stuff. Your oki is a bit too jump-based imo , you could do well to use d.1 on wake-up as a meaty.

Don't be afraid to b.2 into double punch either, its a really nice low-overhead mix-up which will stuff a lot of people's responses if done right.


Against Grundy, you know our b.11 is grab immune as is our charge. You can toss those out and they are safe on block. Also any d.1 can be converted into b.1 to trap people. I'm waiting for it to unpause, but you should probably end off combos with venom upper as it gives you soooo much more advantage than body press and ring toss.

You use f.2d into the 3, which is not all that great since grundy has some kind of range on you. Using f.2d 2 will let you be in the sweet spot for a lot of things like command grab and the like. You do make really good use of your backdash, which is awesome to see.

Outside of the lack of frame traps, your Bane isn't all that shabby. A few things wrong on the level of just use this for that and all, your combo enders could be a bit better, as I said the Venom Upper is a godsend. After that MB Double Punch, doing a dash in b.1 would be the best options. I saw you do I think a b.2 into double punch to break the WCC which was excellent.

Good use of normal throws, its nice to see them being used instead of just command throw after command throw. b.1 on block into the normal throw is an almost true link.


Against Doomsday I notice a few things, mainly a wanton use of charge. Tried to super the venom charge, honestly I woulda done the same thing. Lucho power punch again, so sad it isn't safe. 32% in corner damage isn't that much, we do that much without venom for the most part. Still not much use of b.1 I feel like with how good your pressure is, it would make you much more dangerous to use his tech traps. You make good use of double punch, one match would've ended sooner if you did b.23 123 super instead of just b.23 super. The fact that you are doing well and not even using some of his best tools makes me happy we have so much good talent, and I can't imagine the monster you'd become once you get his other aspects down.


All in all, very good games to watch and you did a phenomenal job representing the league. Even still, I can't agree with 4-6 against grundy OR doomsday. Once you find out the full potential of Bane, you may even agree. But while you are still uninitiated on the finer points, hold your opinion with the knowledge that it could all change. I won't say you are wrong, all I'll say is wait until you see all you can be capable of before setting it in stone.

 

[Metzos]

Doombawkz, DD - Bane could be an even MU. Bane has the tools to stop DD's pressure, but still its harder for Bane to stop DD in his tracks since DD's d1 is a lot faster than Bane's. DD's d3 also helps him a lot in the particular MU.

 

[chief713]

Went to a tournament this past Saturday with a lot of top players in attendance, and Bane doesn't stand a chance. Superman bodies him and the rest of the cast still. That matchup isn't even remotely 5-5. Everyone in the tournament lost to the same 4 characters (Superman, Batman, Aquaman, Black Adam) and GF was a Superman mirror.

I won't say that they're unbeatable and that there's no tech to find against them, but right now it looks like until the game gets patched again, you have to pick up one of those 4 characters or you're just playing for fun/giving away money.

 

[big_aug]

4-6 as in they are the 6?
If so, no for grundy. b.1 into anything and he can't do bollocks about our block strings. Can't super us, hell once we hit level 3 he can't even use special attacks anymore for 6 seconds, then has to fanangle his way through a 12 second frame trap that practically never ends. His backdash is also something that we can take advantage of iirc.

Doomsday is also not a 6 against us. He is probably the only character we naturally outdamage aside from deathstroke, we can laugh at his trait and do our strings on him and he can't do a thing about it. Trait? d.1 b.1 loops forever, enjoy taking the damage. If he gets us in the corner we can just MB body press on wake-up and chuck him into it where we are much more dangerous. We can stop supernova with venom upper, everything else gets double punched in the face on wake-up. Also his attacks are a little on the slow side so once he is in the frame traps its not easy for him to get out.

The frame trap is over after a blocked d1. Not real difficult to do. You act like someone is going to sit there and keep pressing buttons as we b1 and d1 them lol

 

[Doombawkz]

The frame trap is over after a blocked d1. Not real difficult to do. You act like someone is going to sit there and keep pressing buttons as we b1 and d1 them lol

After a blocked d.1 sure, we are still 3 frames up so we essentially have a 8 frame d.1 after to work with. One hit is another block string, and people will press buttons what looks to be punishable.

 

[chief713]

Anybody know what to do against Shazam on wakeup? I went into training mode to try and figure out how to punish his evade teleport on wakeup and I couldn't find any answers for it.

 

[big_aug]

Anybody know what to do against Shazam on wakeup? I went into training mode to try and figure out how to punish his evade teleport on wakeup and I couldn't find any answers for it.

If they are habitual teleporters, you can start a command grab as soon as they start to teleport. Your inputs will be opposite of the direction your character is facing though. You can also do a b1 and immediately start a 113 string or something that will come out on the other end. If they are teleporting away from you and not behind you, I think you can get them with charge maybe?

 

[chief713]

If they try to teleport behind me I just neutral jump j.d3. That's not a problem. The problem is that the evade teleport (the one that goes away from you) seems to be a free escape out of anything. Charge is too slow and gets blocked. It's invincible from startup so you can't meaty it. And you can't chase it with forward dash because the startup has a force field that bumps you away.

 

[big_aug]

If they try to teleport behind me I just neutral jump j.d3. That's not a problem. The problem is that the evade teleport (the one that goes away from you) seems to be a free escape out of anything. Charge is too slow and gets blocked. It's invincible from startup so you can't meaty it. And you can't chase it with forward dash because the startup has a force field that bumps you away.

Well, that's a problem then. I've never had anyone use it for me.

 

[big_aug]

Yes, shazam gets out of knockdowns completely free.

 

[Doombawkz]

Put him in a corner, j.d.3 for life

 

[Red Venom]

So I've played against a few Scorpions today and realized the following, as fast as Scorpions teleport is, that and his super can be blocked low and punished accordingly. Has anyone else figured out how to counter him because his hellfire is also an issue to deal with, also crouch under his spear or use venom to charge in as he uses it pretty obvious but I'm looking for any other tips.

 

[Onilordasmodeus]

You've got to stay on him as you can't zone him. You can't stay full screen (especially with Bane) against him as his Zoning game is pretty good. That's my take anyway.

 

[big_aug]

If only it were that easy. You have to jump back to hit him if he's in the corner. It's a real fucking gimmick that teleport. It seems there's invulnerable frames on once it starts even outside wake up.

And once you start looking for the teleport, he's free to do any wake up he wants. Or just stand up.

 

[Asodimazze]

Against Grundy, you know our b.11 is grab immune as is our charge. You can toss those out and they are safe on block. Also any d.1 can be converted into b.1 to trap people. I'm waiting for it to unpause, but you should probably end off combos with venom upper as it gives you soooo much more advantage than body press and ring toss.

B11 is grab immune only on a few frames on the second hit, if you mistime it Grundy gets you, and there is no way to perfectly time it everytime since you can't know when Grundy is going to throw out WC.
Using shoulder against Grundy is suicide unless you are on level 3 Venom, punishing it with WCC is extremely easy, it doesn't matter if it's throw immune.

 

[big_aug]

B11 is grab immune only on a few frames on the second hit, if you mistime it Grundy gets you, and there is no way to perfectly time it everytime since you can't know when Grundy is going to throw out WC.
Using shoulder against Grundy is suicide unless you are on level 3 Venom, punishing it with WCC is extremely easy, it doesn't matter if it's throw immune.

You can't punish it at point black range. It trades or you lose. Charge i mean.

 

[big_aug]

It's complete bullshit that he can throw out the Hellfires with no risk and it's unblockable.