Match-up Discussion Batman Match-Up Discussion

[Baby Moses]

I'm starting to realize Doomsday can be a problem, anyone have good experience against one? I fight random ones from time to time online and they basically face roll the controller to victory against me. lol I suck at blocking cross ups, timing dashes, and back 3 armor uping against this guy. I know there's threads on how to deal with this guy, but as Batman mains do you guys have any tips to help? There was nothing in the spoiler tag in the OP when I checked.

b23 is the bane of Doomsday's existence. Every time he activates his trait just b23 him, it keeps him in place and lets you escape. Actually, even outside his trait, there isn't much Doomsday can do about b23. You can parry his d1 and his shoulder charge, so keep him honest or make it so he thinks twice. Also, Doomsday really doesn't have an anti-air. You can jump in on him willingly and he can't do much on reaction. Know you can b3 armor his meteor smash (dunno its real name) and make sure you block with bats, which is another thing Doomsday doesn't have much of an answer to. Of course, online in this game is a completely different setting, since your combos are limited, and the lag makes Doomsday high-low groundpound thing pretty much unblockable.

 

[Red Reaper]

you cant punish aquaman on hit confirmed bat, aquamans trait saves him from being combo"d... also batmans bats are not an option for free pressure (only if you jump for cross-over after bats) because if you dash cross-over jump aquamans d2 stuffs the jump and sometimes stuff just a standing normal combo starter if you choose not to cross over after bat bots are homing in... aquaman takes away batmans bats because of aquamans trait..also aquaman outzones batman if you block a ground trident you cannot check him with grapple or batarang because aquaman will get another free ground trident, batman can only like you said " get your trait out/ dash forward to close distance" or you can double jump forward to avoid another ground trident....im sorry but if you play a high level aquaman its at best 6-4 aquaman at worst 7-3

My theory was just to play the lame game with him.. Backdash trident and load bats, then once you have your three loaded get in range and make the read with your Bats. If you mess up get away and wait for your Bats again. Boring but it's aquaman... Lots of matches in this game are like that against the top tiers.

Edit: Nvm.. His trait is just bullshit. The most retarded in the game. I guess you kan go for your mix ups on hit and grind the lameness out to victory.

 

[The_PayBack]

I'm one that does this too, but you're leaving a ton of damage on the table by dropping combos. Try using more mixups and frame traps once you're in to keep pressure on him.

The strings 12 and b11 leave you at advantage. Try keeping the bats up for longer. It seems you cb then rb immediately. Instead of crossing him up, push him to the corner, too.

Yup I totally agree, ive been playing him recently and we go 50/50 even now since i keep him in the corner now.

 

[ryumanjisen]

Never played a good Hawkgirl until Boodendorf kicked my ass several times. I don't know, but the matchup seemed like a very uphill battle for us, Batman players. It's really hard to get in against her, her frame traps and corner combos are really nasty and most of the time my j2 crossup whiffed (although I suppose that was because of the lag).

Any advice?

 

[Boodendorf]

Never played a good Hawkgirl until Boodendorf kicked my ass several times. I don't know, but the matchup seemed like a very uphill battle for us, Batman players. It's really hard to get in against her.

Any advice?

I've fought another batman player offline and online, a friend of mine so he knows my HG better than most batmans, here's some footage of him:

He didn't win but you might learn a thing or two.

Also if you want a sure way to bring down hawkgirl from full screen:
jump, trait, forward grapple as soon as you land. If hawkgirl tries to divekick to avoid bats, she'll eat grapple, if she tries to mace charge, she'll eat the bats. Free damage and meter for batman.

 

[ryumanjisen]

Thanks a lot, man. That way to bring down HG is really a useful trick.

 

[Epoch Masamune]

Foreal though, FUCK NIGHTWWING. I got my ass beat by a couple of Nightwings last night fighting me in Escrima stance. His wingdings( I believe that's what his air projectile is called) is ridiculously good. He basically shut down my attack from the air, out projectiles and out zones me, and when I try to rush him down with Batmans limited reach, he dashes back or waits for a whole and starts wupping my ass with those sticks of his. Didn't we train this fucker since he was a kid? I feel like the student has surpassed the teacher ><!

Also on a side note I'm no expert with Batman( although I can say I'm steadily improving) but the Aquaman matchup is not as unmanageable as I had originally thought. I still think that it's in Aquamns favor, but if your patient you can bait out the trident and apply pressure and it is def possible for Bats to pull out a win. Finally I wanted to thank Rapzilla for the advice on Raven and Doomsday. Raven is no problem or me now, and Doomsday as been more manageable( although he still gives me trouble).

The main characters that give me trouble now are Nightwing, Green Lantern, and Flash.

 

[Reptile Orion]

I ran into my first batch of Scorpion matches last night. I didn't do too bad initially but the teleport did start to get the best for me. I didn't play MK9 so I have no idea what his special moves or combos look like. Any advice on how to approach, punish, and ultimately handle this matchup? I'm sure it will be very popular from here on out.

 

[ryumanjisen]

To block the teleport, your best bet is holding down. Not downback or downforward, just down. And he can be punished hard after you block it.

I've run into my fair share of yellow ninjas too. They seem to rely on the teleleport and, after they find you know how to block it, they mix it with that unblockable flame from the ground. My best advice, right now, is this: don't try to rush him, act like if you were playing a Batgirl, bait and punish.

 

[Reptile Orion]

To block the teleport, your best bet is holding down. Not downback or downforward, just down. And he can be punished hard after you block it.

I've run into my fair share of yellow ninjas too. They seem to rely on the teleleport and, after they find you know how to block it, they mix it with that unblockable flame from the ground. My best advice, right now, is this: don't try to rush him, act like if you were playing a Batgirl, bait and punish.

Thanks for the advice. I was holding downback and getting caught quite a bit. I used J2 quite a bit to keep moving and cross up with limited results. The next round I'll play a bit more conservatively and take the Batgirl approach. Any other Scorp observations from Bat mains?

 

[RapZiLLa54]

This might not be news to anyone but I finally got something that can annoy Black Adam players.

If we stay at 3/4s screen we have the double jump so basically we can avoid his reg and ex lightning pretty easy and on whiff its pretty negative so we get a free dash-in to close distance and if we see him going for another lightning we can forward j2 full combo him since batmans dash length is so long.

Or

You can dash in jump back 3 or neutral jump 2. Both completely destroys black adams dive kick and lead to +40% combos with 123 b2 mb sky grapple or mb up batarang etc. Also note his divekick even when it whiffs and hes on the ground which will occur when you back jump2/3 will always register that hes in the air which is why the damage is 40+

Also for those Black adams that love to divekick and backdash, dash with him b23 or even f2 mb grapple. Making that kind of read is sure to make them think twice.

So if we get a life lead we can literally lame him out by just doing neutral/back jump 2s and let him just kill himself.

 

[Rude]

Can anyone give me advice for HawkGirl? Her movement and attacks are so odd, and I find myself bodied by them frequently.

 

[Omgzilla]

I've literally been completely shut down by a yellow ninja just spamming his tele. If i even thought of not holding down to block, I'd two to the face in rapid succession followed by an unblockable ground flame. This MU has me completely stumped.

 

[Rude]

Try using parry on reaction

 

[Omgzilla]

I will do just that! thanks for the tip

 

[The_PayBack]

This might not be news to anyone but I finally got something that can annoy Black Adam players.

If we stay at 3/4s screen we have the double jump so basically we can avoid his reg and ex lightning pretty easy and on whiff its pretty negative so we get a free dash-in to close distance and if we see him going for another lightning we can forward j2 full combo him since batmans dash length is so long.

Or

You can dash in jump back 3 or neutral jump 2. Both completely destroys black adams dive kick and lead to +40% combos with 123 b2 mb sky grapple or mb up batarang etc. Also note his divekick even when it whiffs and hes on the ground which will occur when you back jump2/3 will always register that hes in the air which is why the damage is 40+

Also for those Black adams that love to divekick and backdash, dash with him b23 or even f2 mb grapple. Making that kind of read is sure to make them think twice.

So if we get a life lead we can literally lame him out by just doing neutral/back jump 2s and let him just kill himself.

I agree i started gliding more to close in when they get lightening happy. And baiting out them backdashing does wonders.

 

[feedyourcatbro]

I'm not willing to label Scorpion as a bad matchup or OP or whatever the flavor of the month bitching is, but god damn he is annoying. I feel like the range of Bruce's pokes make it hard to do much when he's not just rushing us hard.

Some things I have found for people who don't know crap about the match:
Using down to block teleports will block them no matter what.
Teleports have some ground recovery but not much. 123 will net you a combo while he is airborne, however.
EX teleports are +9 but push you back.
Hellfire is only guaranteed on wakeup if it's EX. Be careful with your bat activation because he can burn you.
B2 is your only really reliable anti-air, his air moves are fast and have great priority.
Jumping meaty will stuff most, if not all, of his wakeup options

Pretty much all I've got. I feel like I can't shake Scorpion when he's on me as Bats. More practice is definitely needed.

 

[TH3DISTURBED1]

Out of curiosity, is this thread going to have the information put into the first few posts?

 

[Red Reaper]

Out of curiosity, is this thread going to have the information put into the first few posts?

Most likely not, though I would hope so.. It all depends on the OP...

 

[The BatMuchacho]

Hello everyone, I am a batman player and was a contender at NWM this last weekend and was hoping to get more involved with this thread:

I tied for 9th in injustice after blowing my semi-finals winners match on stream (against superman 2:1) and then losing my semi-finals losers match off stream (against black adam 2:0) winning either would have put me in top 8...props to trevar and colinLG
I had two streamed matches (one against GRUNDY and another against SUPERMAN). I decided it might be helpful to lay some of the more technical aspects of each match out, to better understand the match-ups. Plus, I am in desparate need of help against superman. (Note: I'm separating these by match to avoid confusion and length).

See the link below for my two streamed matches.

http://www.twitch.tv/khaosgaming2/b/414304770 (MATCHES START AT 6:12:00)

BATMAN VS. GRUNDY MATCH-UP NOTES: (6:12:00 - 6:18:10)

1st: Bait wake-ups, you'll see me do a lot of neutral jumping (6:16:59) in this match on his wake-up in hopes that he does an armored command grab or some type of punishable wake up move (cleaver, walking corpse, trait grab). After the opponent respects the jump, you can resume pressure and other mix up options on his/her wake up.

2nd: I know there were a few unsafe jumps that I did where he should have grabbed me but in most cases, use your trait to make your jump ins safe. The only exception to this is if you know the cross up will be deep enough to not get anti aired, grundy can lay the beat down off his crouching 2 so avoid that at all cost, plus he gets a free mix up off air grab so be careful jumping.

3rd: Utilize the 112 ex batarang pressure to get free mix ups. This is a general thing against everyone, but use it! It's crucial.

4th: I got hit by one intractable in both matches because I used his double jump backwards, this helps against all power characters but you'll notice he only tagged me like 1/4 times. The saved damage adds up quick.

5h: IMPORTANT – Know the opponents strings/mix-ups!

@ 6:15:00 & 6:16:35 -> This is an inescapable Grundy reset if it is done correctly, do not be fooled by 6:16:35, that was simply a mistake by my opponent.

@ 6:15:06 -> Block low for the two hits and then jump, I knew how to escape this, I just jumped to early. But had it worked, I would have been able to punish for 40%.

@ 6:16:23 -> You cannot back dash on wake up out of this mix up as you can see, I never tried it and now I never will. Live and learn. Just block the two hits (1st hits low) then jump and punish.

@ 6:16:54 -> Block this string like I did, his 112 (All mids) string leaves you with 5 frames to escape, had I neutral jumped I could have punished this.


SEE NEXT POST FOR SUPERMAN MATCH NOTES

 

[The BatMuchacho]

CONTINUATION OF LAST POST:

Now, for the real reason I came by, what am I supposed to do against superman? I keep on hearing that this is a good match up for batman, am I missing something? Is there some secret way to make superman’s zoning a non-factor or am I just crazy.

SUPERMAN MATCH-UP NOTES: (MATCH STARTS AT 6:19:45)

1st: Bait wake-ups, the best way to block superman wake ups is to block low just in case he decides to do the reaching low move (6:20:14). This particular opponent opted to use superman’s air grab wake-up attack more often than the other options, which is very punishable as you will see throughout the match ( I successfully baited it at 6:22:00 & 6:20:38 but both resulted in a horrible punishes – tournament nerves I guess)

2nd: PARRY THE BREATH PRESSURE! In order to stop superman f23 breath pressure, do a parry in between the breath and the following f23, you’ll get him the first time. I do not recommend doing this 2 times in a row because most players are smart enough to attempt baiting it out later on in the match. (6:20:04 – Successful & 6:24:02 – Unsuccessful)

3rd: Do not let superman get any space, the only reason I was able to win the 2nd match is because I kept him close (most of the time) and when he got some distance, I used my trait to safely dash up closer. Batman will not be able to out zone superman, even with staggered bats. I almost lost this one due to full screen panic DON’T DO THAT! Which segue’s nicely to the next section…

THINGS NOT TO DO!

1st: Don’t forward double jump (like me) to try and avoid zoning, he punished me all day for trying to get in with batman’s glide. Plus I looked like an idiot coming down everytime.

2nd: Don’t back dash out of breath pressure, batman’s back dash sucks and although it worked once this match, I know for a fact that won’t fly if the opponent times the f23 right.

3rd: Don’t panic, if you start panicking (like me) when you get full screen, superman will laugh at you at while his eye lasers drain your health.

Well that’s about it. Please let me know what you guys think about my matches and what other tech I should incorporate. I know, I dropped a lot of combos, and I know I can do a full combo off of jumping 2 air confirm, but if there’s any advice or tactics you all have had success with, I would greatly appreciate it.

Open to any harsh criticism I embrace it. I’m trying to get good at this game.

Thanks!

The BatMuchacho

(X-box Tag: The BatMuchacho)

 

[The BatMuchacho]

I've picked up Batman this week.

What do you guys mainly use to whiff punish? I ask this because his grapple is too slow and his normals don't have much range.

Also, how do you punish Aquaman's trident rush?

B113 gives you a full combo but lacks range. Try B2 into forward grapple, if you have a bar you can EX the grapple and pull off 30-35% combos. B2's start up is pretty quick and as pointed out by many others it got the range.

Either you jump over him while he's whiffing it, or you push block while getting hit. Other than that, pretty much unstoppable.

 

[Vigilante]

B113 gives you a full combo but lacks range. Try B2 into forward grapple, if you have a bar you can EX the grapple and pull off 30-35% combos. B2's start up is pretty quick and as pointed out by many others it got the range.

Either you jump over him while he's whiffing it, or you push block while getting hit. Other than that, pretty much unstoppable.

Also, you can whiff punish with f2 > MB straight grapple. It is a little slower than b2, and deals less damage, but it has better range.

 

[RapZiLLa54]

Going to give a MU Chart a shot.

Aquaman 4-6 his trait negates ours

Ares 5-5

Bane 7-3 Has to come to us and parry beats lvl 3 running charge

Batgirl 5-5 Still learning this one, shes annoying as hell.

Black Adam 4-6 I think this will become 5-5 soon enough. He has no answer for neutral/back jumping

Catwoman 6-4 she has to do a lot of work to get in

Cyborg 5-5 No more block infinite yay

Deathstroke 5-5 One of my favorite matches to play J360

Doomsday 5-5 I'm thinking this might be in Batmans favor as things progress

Flash 5-5 He has to come to us but I think he can make his lightning charge MB on block now so this could change.

Green Arrow 6-4 We outzone him, grapple or bats when he tries to pull out arrows. mb b3 causes him problems

Green Lantern 6-4 Just stay away from him and be patient. You can win the zoning war and when you're out of b1 range he suffers.

Harley Quinn 6-4 Have to stay in tight so she can't get her zoning going but watch out, her sweep is plus.

Hawkgirl 5-5? Not enough experience so I'm not sure but I know up batarang and sky hook give her trait of flight fits.

Joker 7-3 Batarang animation goes under Joker gun shot for whatever reason making it even more laughable

Killer Frost 5-5 We can punish slide with Bats which they have to respect.

Lex 6-4

Lobo 6-4, 7-3?

Nightwing 4-6 When he gets in its scary and his ability to outzone us in staff stance make this one tough

Raven 5-5? .....

Shazam 4-6 This match drives me insane. His d1 (batmans kryptonite) is great and he can spam torpedo on us. Even with bats, its difficult to punish and he has a great j2 as well. With all his wake up or die setups and Batman getting practically no damage off slide, he has nothing to fear.

Sinestro 5-5? ...

Grundy 6-4 He has to come to you and bats plus any combo string or f3/b3 beat out his WC.
Every blocked swamp hands allows us to get a batarang on screen. He also can't jump over mb batarangs

Scorpion 5-5 flip kick being -10 doesn't change this MU for the trex.

Superman 5-5 Parry doesn't allow him most of his mixups so you can always block low and then parry 22*3 on reaction. Also nj2 beats f23 ice breathe loop. Try to avoid zoning battle, you will lose lol

Wonder Woman 6-4 She has to come to you so you can create a wall of bats and up batarang for win/win situations.


discuss

 

[The BatMuchacho]

@RapZiLLa54

I'd say you're about dead on in my opinion at this point in the game.

From personal experience, I feel that the superman match-up is slightly in supermans favor (4-6). You can argue that parry negates his f23 breath pressure and the majority of his mix-ups, but all it really does is give good superman players additional mix up options. Parry is ridiculously punishable and if you're facing a good superman that knows that they can bait it out, you get some near 50% optimized combos thrown your way. Plus, as you said, the zoning game is clearly in supermans favor.

Also, I think the neutral jump only works if the superman player does the f23 too late, it will catch back-dash and neutral jump if they do it correctly. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong but I have definitely been caught n.jumping by good superman pressure.