What's new

Whiff Cancel Options to stuff wakeup tactics

Sasuga

Kombatant
This is not an option select stop saying it is.
It's not the first time the NRS community took some well established terms from other fightinggames and gave it a new meaning. Just like 'resets' in MK are different from SF resets.
 

jaym7018

Warrior
It's not the first time the NRS community took some well established terms from other fightinggames and gave it a new meaning. Just like 'resets' in MK are different from SF resets.
You cant give something that has meaning a new meaning. I cant say car actually means airplane cause im part of the NRS community. Not only do aris and the TCs examples serve no purpose they are labeling this something it isnt. The fact the tc has labeled himself a ground breaker is hilarious.
 

Sasuga

Kombatant
You cant give something that has meaning a new meaning. I cant say car actually means airplane cause im part of the NRS community. Not only do aris and the TCs examples serve no purpose they are labeling this something it isnt. The fact the tc has labeled himself a ground breaker is hilarious.
It's just a word. Who cares what it's called.

Btw: Option select already was something else before the SF comm. gave it a new meaning. ^^
 

shaowebb

Get your guns on. Sheriff is back.
Just woke up and thought of something here involving how this effects frame data.

Does this read your whif as a blocked attack or a hit attack because technically that should transfer over some frame advantage into the super you cancel into and THAT is big in either case.

Say your move is +14 on hit and due to armor it hits but they keep going, now when you do this trick and cancel into a super you are suddenly at a +14 advantage to aid the super. So if you had a 16 frame startup on the super would this make it so only 2 frames were punishable ? And if you used the frame count of your meaty + the invincible frames on any super cancelled into that had armor on its startup (if your character has these) then couldn't you frame count this until you knew of a way to pick which meaty and which super when combined for this trick would outlive the active non punishable frames of any armored wakeup in the game?

Lets get technical here and do some frame checking to see if this is padding advantage on startups at all.
 

vegeta

Saiyan Prince
Good exposure for this. I knew about this due to Reo and Tom Brady when they helped me out with Raven a few weeks ago, I use the same concept for her lift. Thought it was specific to her. Nice work :)
 

RunwayMafia

Shoot them. Shoot them all.
It has nothing to do with egos. This literally is left over from MK9 because the wakeup system works the EXACT same way. Invincibility frames that are just armor frames without the armor damage or flash.

It's not really an option select since it works on block, too.

Good effort, though. Discovering this game instead of bitching about shit is what we should be doing.
Yeah...I know. I forget that when typing a body of words on the internet, others won't necessarily pick up on my humor/lightheartedness of what I actually meant. Speaking for myself, I had no idea this was possible in MK, just like Aris, so it was news to me. I was merely poking fun at "that guy/those people" who are always saying "Nawwww man...I've known about this BEFORE the game was released" and then go on repeating it 3 more times, assumably wanting recognition. Also, this post was littered with people obsessed with semantics...so I couldn't help but roll my eyes.

For example, I would find it just as humorous if a Jade player or ED BOON himself announced that all this time Jade could throw air boomerangs and had a teleport, made a detailed public post with the info, and then there would always be "that guy/those people" saying they knew about it this whole time, wanted to keep it secret, "Did you guys know I knew this? Well did you? I'm going to mention it 4 more times, okay?". Lol, that's really what I meant...no disrespect intended to those who did know/ are more knowledgable than I about this tech. ;)
 

vicious1024

Does it matter?
"Option Select describes a situation in a fighting game where the action of the player is ambiguous, and the computer will determine the outcome based on the situation."

The most common example for an option select, is a crouch teching (Street Fighter). To perform a crouch tech, you simply press LP+LK while holding down-back. Since your character isn't standing they won't perform a throw whiff animation, and instead will do a crouching LK. If your opponent attempts to throw you, you will tech the throw.

A more advanced option select would be Yun's crouching LK, stand LP/Ultra setup, in Street Fighter IV. Here you're buffering Ultra (qfc.(2x)+3P) after a crouching LK. If done slow enough, the engine will go into a standing LP on hit or block. However, if the crouching LK whiffs due to the invincibility frames of your opponent's wakeup option (e.g: backdash or Shoryuken), Ultra will come out instead. This allows you to simultaneously buffer Ultra, and continue a combo or block string on hit or block, respectively. The engine will perform either option depending on the situation.

The option select presented here appears to only have one option. Essentially, you're either still special canceling, or you're whiffing an attack/string. It's still technically an option select, I suppose. Though, the real exploit here is the ability to special cancel normals that pass through your opponent's invincibility frames.
 
TYM member doubleperfect seems to have made a discovery that could literally shake Injustice's meta-game to its very core! What is that tech, you may wonder? Please read his italicized post below and be sure to review the recording that comes after it. If this is something you were not initially aware of...you may want to hit the lab and run some experiments (may have to vary on a few things depending on your character of choice).

I call this new tech, "whiff cancel option select". Just like in Super Street Fighter 4 (if anybody has played it, you'll understand the reference), you have an option to do multiple setups depending on what your opponent is gonna do, something that we refer to as an "option select." In Injustice, this kind of function works the same, but under a SPECIAL condition. What makes it awesome too is that you don't get punished hard for guessing wrong on their wake up attack when they backdash (will explain more on this).

Best way to explain it is that any normal move can be canceled with a special/super if it whiffs the opponent but ONLY when they do a invincible attack on wake up. Pretty much do a meaty attack (that is cancellable) on your opponent. If the opponent backdashes, the special won't come out!

For example, let's say you are playing against Superman and you are Solomon Grundy. One way to find out easily that what I'm saying is true is to get close to Superman and hit d+3 (sweep) immediately dash in and do d+1 (crouch jab) as a meaty attack (doesn't have to be perfect timing). If Supes does his rising grab, d+1 misses due to his invincibility going right through your attack. Now, here's the CATCH. If you know Supes is going to do rising grab as a wake up attack, you can do d+1 and buffer d+f+1 (anti-air) which grabs him out of the air! Even though the d+1 missed, it still registers the special attack!

That is freakin' INSANE! And this doesn't work just with Grundy, either; I also tested it on a few other characters, meaning that this "whiff cancel option select" is UNIVERSAL to the whole cast.
I am certain this has not been discovered yet! :D Also, please NRS, don't get rid of this even if this was not intended! I think this will blossom the meta game at a level much greater then it already is, perhaps even changing some of the tier list already released by top players. (I think even low-tier characters might rise up from this)

In short, you can cancel normals into specials only when opponents do an invincible wake up attack! This does NOT work if whiffed from far away when this condition has not been met.

Want proof? Check out the link to this Twitch archive below.

http://www.twitch.tv/doubleperfect/b/408444336

Watch @ 2;50 , 6;00~6;10 11;10, 12;43, 13;35 and 14;10.

Execution is sloppy if anybody decides to watch the whole 18 minutes, lol (super tired when I made this recording). :)


Post updated with a straightforward recording of the aforementioned tech, which can be seen below.

Article edited by GamerBlake90.[/quote]

wow this is really awesome and its a great discovery for all the low tier characters in the game as well nice work man! thumbs up from the Kommunity
 

Aris

Noob
You cant give something that has meaning a new meaning. I cant say car actually means airplane cause im part of the NRS community. Not only do aris and the TCs examples serve no purpose they are labeling this something it isnt. The fact the tc has labeled himself a ground breaker is hilarious.
Just because that's what they called option selects after 2009 doesn't mean that is the definition of an option select. The "option" part is referring to the opponent's options, not yours. If you only need to do one thing to beat many things, that is an option select. An example in Tekken would be a mid homing move when you are option selecting between a crouch and a side step from your opponent. An option select refers to any action that covers multiple options by the opponent, not you. This video lays the ground work for finding them.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Its pretty much like the OHVCS.
Covers jump, backdash, clash, and you can't techroll it.

Also I thought an option select is when the computer chooses the best options when presented with two choices? Like Ryu's fireball tech where since you can't have 2 fireballs at the same time on screen or something, doing an option select when the opponent is waking up into it will either give you another fireball or give you the punch if the fireball whiffs.

And while I wouldn't say its necessarily "ground breaking" for everyone, it does change a lot of MUs and make people with bad wake-ups a good amount worse. The best example that comes to mind would be Bladum since to my knowledge his lightning cage is the only really viable wake-up he has and it now has a way around it for most every character.
 

jaym7018

Warrior
I find it useful when players try to counter poke my d1 they get blown up but yeah probably FADC a DP on ssf4 has no purpose either.
Thats not an option select thats you guessing if they will counter poke the mb b3 will come oit regardless.
 

Posthuman

Where's TJ Combo?
Thats not an option select thats you guessing if they will counter poke the mb b3 will come oit regardless.
Exactly and it does has purposes... your efforts off putting me down are pathetic, go back to trolling srk front pages lol.
 

SPECTRELIGHT

F, D, F + HP
Nice find. However, as several have already stated:
The normal is NOT whiffing. A whiff is a move that misses the opponent, that hits nothing. The normals in this tech ARE hitting the invincible frames of the wake-up/reversal. Obviously, the normal loses to the invincible frames, so even though it hits the hurtbox, the person waking up takes no damage.
What this tech is doing, is allowing you to connect with specials on invincible wake-ups because the normal's frames are eating up the time of the active invincible frames. When you cancel into the special, there may be no more invincible frames and your attack hits or your evade doesn't get punished.
Thus, it shouldn't be called a "whiff" cancel.
I'm only refuting the whiff claim, not taking anything away from the potential of this tech.
 

shaowebb

Get your guns on. Sheriff is back.
Call it whatever you want it works. Green Arrow can punish Black Adam's lightning cage wakeup now thanks to this and you can't tell me thats not good.
 

7r17r1

Noob
Thats not what happens did you evn try this? It comes out no matter what.
You actually read the part where it states "the move doesn't come out if the opponent backdashes" right ?

So yeah, it is an option select, but it would be great if the original post was pointing out that if your opponent is just blocking on wake up (I know, it doesn't happend much often), then your option select will come out
Which is a bit important to underline so that people really understand what it means

So, for example, if you go for d1 OS b3 and the opponent blocks, you are going to waste 2 meter bars, and I don't think you want this

Some characters may find usefull tech from this, but I don't think it will affect the majority of the cast
 

jaym7018

Warrior
Nice find. However, as several have already stated:
The normal is NOT whiffing. A whiff is a move that misses the opponent, that hits nothing. The normals in this tech ARE hitting the invincible frames of the wake-up/reversal. Obviously, the normal loses to the invincible frames, so even though it hits the hurtbox, the person waking up takes no damage.
What this tech is doing, is allowing you to connect with specials on invincible wake-ups because the normal's frames are eating up the time of the active invincible frames. When you cancel into the special, there may be no more invincible frames and your attack hits or your evade doesn't get punished.
It doesnt eat up the frames the frames are there regardless. Doing the d1 serves no purpose you could simply delay your special 7frames and get the same result. As i said this is nothing more than an aid for your timing.
 

Laos_boy

Meow Hoes
It was in MK9 as well, I thought they removed it in Injustice.
Good shit for discovering it again.

So pretty much if a meaty attack hits someone in his invincibility frames, you can cancel it. It was more viable in MK9 since you could input an armored special to counter the wake-up.
I miss f4 ex red dash...
 

KH StarCharger

Kombatant
I had this in my vortex videos for Catwoman some time ago. The "Empty Buffer" from MK that uses an armored special or attack to blow up reversal attempts. This isn't news I'm afraid.