About Superman's Trait and Balance Request.

[Wigy]

Ok so people are complaining about Supereasyman, I don't understand why but I will bite anyway.
1: most if not all the traits in this game affect the opponent when active, forces the opponent to play a different way than before

Lex: opponent cant press buttons, is free to do unsafe stuff and opponent cant do anything about it.

Aquamanpponent has to choose a combo starter that neutralizes his trait usefulness

Supermanpponent has to stop using armored moves when his trait is active

Doomsday: when you know how to deal with this trait it becomes almost useless.

If you cant adapt mid match to the changes that comes with the opponents trait activation then you need to level up and stop being SHIT

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Yeah but not all characters traits do this?
You just picked doomsday and aquaman as examples for balance comparison because they are equally stupid.
And its not like he needs a really got trait to make up for other stuff his game is lacking like grundy, characters like joker who are nowhere near as good as superman and have a next to useless trait? Not saying its overpowered or a broken game mechanic BUT in comparison with other characters it is broken. I can level up all day but it doesn't mean that superman needs a trait that good.

 

[Compbros]

Cooldown is about the only thing that needs to take a hit, it's ridiculous how fast it recovers for how quick it is....though that could be said for like 8 other characters.

 

[PND i2 Gaug3]

cut

all characters force you to respect their trait one way or another, a few exceptions are harley, black adam, flash(useless outside of combos), grundy (not unclashable anymore). name a character and i will easily tell you how their trait affects the opponent


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[Compbros]

don't let it amplify the damage from interactables.

I agree with this with how great interactibles are.

 

[Wigy]

all characters force you to respect their trait one way or another, a few exceptions are harley, black adam, flash(useless outside of combos), grundy (not unclashable anymore). name a character and i will easily tell you how their trait affects the opponent


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Joker.

To some level you're correct but superman negates the one thing big characters have for like half the game and its safe as fuck and can be done mid combo, for an already very strong character to have this is just silly. Anybody denying that the other characters need trait buffs or this needs a nerf they are in denial or in superman mains.

 

[PND i2 Gaug3]

Joker.

frametraps are meaningless, strings with holes in them cant be used, notice the opponents habbits for string usage and abuse them

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[Wigy]

frametraps are meaningless, strings with holes in them cant be used, notice the opponents habbits for string usage and abuse them

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You clearly do not play joker. You cannot use trait as a reversal so its hard to interrupt anything with, it does very little damage, has about... 1femtoseconds of active frames. Its so heavily in the opponents favour for risk/reward that its not worth using it against anything but like banes charge.

Not to mention batman has a much better one that is a special.

And the speed boost isn't even worth mentioning cause you never get more than one HA and one HA is barely noticeable, definitely not game changing by any respect.

This is all in a character that has a distinctly weaker game than superman, a character who has a much better trait

 

[CamChattic]

Joker.

I love how you called out pnd for highlighting like a good chunk of the cast arguing traits are more balanced than not and say all those traits are broken but stand by joker who is a single character as your point as to why they aren't. He's obviously the exception with like 2 other characters who have useless traits. The answer is not to nerf everyone else's traits so they are also useless the answer is to buff the few that need work bring them INTO the meta game not change the entire meta. Even then ive seen joker as a character with out a very useful trait do very well in tournament without it. So if its a matter of personal performance then that all has to do with accountability.

 

[Wigy]

I love how you called out pnd for highlighting like a good chunk of the cast arguing traits are more balanced than not and say all those traits are broken but stand by joker who is a single character as your point as to why they aren't. He's obviously the exception with like 2 other characters who have useless traits. The answer is not to nerf everyone else's traits so they are also useless the answer is to buff the few that need work bring them INTO the meta game not change the entire meta. Even then ive seen joker as a character with out a very useful trait do very well in tournament without it. So if its a matter of personal performance then that all has to do with accountability.

I was using him as an example. Bane's trait also needs further buffing for instance. Just in general balance, superman is already a very good character top 5 at bare minimum and has a better trait than like 4/5 of the cast at least.

Don't even know how this is still an argued thing, i thought people would recognize it's silliness like cyrax's combos.

 

[Wigy]

The answer is not to nerf everyone else's traits so they are also useless the answer is to buff the few that need work bring them INTO the meta game not change the entire meta.

If you read my other posts i do say this.

And a joker is yet to place well in like anything at tournament level.

 

[CamChattic]

Cyrax's combos negated people from playing the game they were completely unintentional. Traits change the flow of the match, they do what they are supposed to do. Not even like close at all. On the topic of bane though I think it's fine I mean if he gets his charges set right and puts you in the right situation you could literally lose the match off one or two bad guesses. That's how he's played. I would only say useless ones would be Harley's and I think she's awesome without it and catwoman's who just adds combo damage and she's considered A+ without it.


Also I've seen kh cats joker place high as well as valles joker place high

 

[PND i2 Gaug3]

I was using him as an example. Bane's trait also needs further buffing for instance. Just in general balance, superman is already a very good character top 5 at bare minimum and has a better trait than like 4/5 of the cast at least.

Don't even know how this is still an argued thing, i thought people would recognize it's silliness like cyrax's combos.

the thing is Traits that are really really good normally have limited uses,

Superman: combos/against characters that have armour out the ass
aquaman: Only useful when getting combo-ed on the ground
Doomsday: only when he has no meter and wants to get in, and only useful (when used this way) against characters that have no answer for it.

Then you have the ones that excel at the neutral game

Nightwing: i really shouldn't have to explain this
Batman: this shit don't have any drawbacks if you believe his trait has any drawback your playing him wrong
Hawkgirl: if you play a character that cant deal with flight too bad.
Ares: AXE

Then the ones that are only good in specific situations

Flash: During combos
Greenarrow: Self explanatory
Green lantern: combo extenders/full screen minigun
Shazam: corner combos
Black adam: combo extenders/ free damage
Cyborg: Playing against a blind retarded Paraplegic.

The ones that are so good you have to work to get them

Sinestro: He turns into everyone worst nightmare when he gets his trait
Deathstroke: up to 40 percent unblockable damage.

I could go on but CBA

 

[JaredL]

I made a thread about this in the superman forums and I think a good compromise is possible.

Let Superman keep his trait as it is, cooldown and armour break and all.

But change it, so that it doesn't affect trait armour. Only special/universal armour.

 

[CamChattic]

Then you have the ones that excel at the neutral game

Nightwing: i really shouldn't have to explain this
Batman: this shit don't have any drawbacks if you believe his trait has any drawback your playing him wrong
Flash: During combos

Honestly I think the stance traits are the most op I play ww for example people have to deal with so many retarted options I feel bad for putting them through it. Plus mix ups / frame traps layered with stance cancels n shit that lead to more bs.

Batmans trait = Vergil spiral swords without the need for meter

I wanted to comment on flashes trait as well I've seen that flash players are finding ways to use it in the neutral especially paired with his shake for tsubaki and whiff punishing purposes that character in general is one that's gonna take time to develop though

 

[Obanye]

So... not to be rude. But it seems like a lot of people want every matchup in the game to be 5-5... however if the game did patch and patch and patch until EVERY matchup was 5-5. No one would even play the game anymore because people like "broke". Usually the most balanced fighters have the smalles communities.

Not sure where this idea comes from but it's completely wrong. When Yun and Yang were dominating the game in sf4 people quit. Ae2012 is the most balanced fighting game ever made and its extremely popular. People cry when their character gets nerfed but that's about it.

 

[CamChattic]

Not sure where this idea comes from but it's completely wrong. When Yun and Yang were dominating the game in sf4 people quit. Ae2012 is the most balanced fighting game ever made and its extremely popular. People cry when their character gets nerfed but that's about it.

Idk what ae 2012 you been playing but that game is FAR from balanced its neutered to shit and watered down but stale =/= balance. You want balance check out vf5 or tekken tag tournament. I also think you got it a little sideways people cry "till other people's characters get nerfed"

 

[RYX]

Idk what ae 2012 you been playing but that game is FAR from balanced its neutered to shit and watered down but stale =/= balance. You want balance check out vf5 or tekken tag tournament. I also think you got it a little sideways people cry "till other people's characters get nerfed"

Spoiler

People cried for this character to get nerfed and people cried when he did(myself included)

So everybody's right?

 

[King Checkmate]

imo, trait armor should be universal except against supers, which is also universal.

maybe you could argue against doomsday, since it would negate superman's trait, but i don't see why it's necessary to have lex's armor vulnerable. it's 1 hit of armor for a character already not on the level of doomsday or superman.

Bro, Doomsday's trait DOES NOT negate superman's trait. A single laser will take out Doomsdays Trait.
A single df2 with trait nullifies all of bane armored trait specials, doomsdays trait, lex luthor's trait AND any ULTRA. Plus we have the 100% AA accurate SUperman ULTRA that hits nothing less than 38%, MINUMUM.

PLUS he gets it up to 3+ times per round.

I say it should have a DAMAGE buff, a slight one. But at the same time a slower cooldown, so he only gets it about 2 times per match.

 

[King Checkmate]

THANK YOU

Cooldown is about the only thing that needs to take a hit, it's ridiculous how fast it recovers for how quick it is....though that could be said for like 8 other characters.

 

[King Checkmate]

I could live with this:

I made a thread about this in the superman forums and I think a good compromise is possible.

Let Superman keep his trait as it is, cooldown and armour break and all.

But change it, so that it doesn't affect trait armour. Only special/universal armour.

Reason is, heavy characters already have a hard time dealing with superman , hes a natural bad machup for bane,lex,doomy and grundy. But on top of that he gets to break the traits of 3 of them?

I think its a little unfair to be honest.NAh unfair is not the word. IS broken. And if anyone will say the opposite, please be someone who doesnt use Superman...

And im not even getting into his trait breaking ULTRAS but well...

 

[rev0lver]

Bro, Doomsday's trait DOES NOT negate superman's trait. A single laser will take out Doomsdays Trait.

I meant if they made Superman's armor-breaking ineffective against trait armor. It would be fair for Lex but maybe not for Doomsday.

 

[JaredL]

I meant if they made Superman's armor-breaking ineffective against trait armor. It would be fair for Lex but maybe not for Doomsday.

How does everyone else deal with doomsday?