Are interactables too good?

[NkdSingularity]

I think the respawning ones need much longer cooldowns too.

 

[THTB]

Damage reduction on the less avoidable interactables. I also think some interactables should be more avoidable without meter, like the ones that have expanding hitboxes. And maybe better invincibility or even the option to MB movement interactables for agility characters.

Even then, though, I don't have a big enough problem with them.

Losing to the random select isn't something I can entirely complain about...Tekken players have had to deal with this since Tekken 4 lol. Smash players, too. Even MK9 players had to deal with that, as well as 3D MK players.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

I feel Power Characters greatly benefit from interactibles than anyone in the entire game, using them as mobility isn't even good, I haven't seen anyone use them for mobility. As a gadget character, it's only useful to prevent someone else from using them, yes, you may occasionally bait on a read and catch someone with an explosive but it's not as frequent as, herp, derp, throw and get free damage.

And I also feel people saying to backdash them and use invincibility frames are full of crap. I haven't seen a single successful consistent backdash to avoid them, not to mention they have absurd tracking, and even if you do manage to avoid, there is debris and after explosion that almost 100% catches you.

Any one noticed the really shitty hitbox on Metallo this weekend or when people tried to avoid the Robot on Metropolis that the after explosion still hit them?

I think they're kind of silly.

Gadget characters probably get it better, IF they have explosives. Batman has multiple stages where he gets a free invincible corner escape that can lead to 40+ % for no risk.

 

[Juggs]

So you're telling me that knowing the rules before you sit down and play, you lose because of those rules and then call the rules bullshit?

Why does knowing the rules make any difference? Knowing the rules is irrelevant. What are you supposed to do, not play because you don't agree with the rules? Have you ever been to a tournament?

So you're tellling everyone, as a mod of this site, that it's not possible to go into Practice Mode with every stage and develop strategies to counter and prevent your opponent from using these "bullshit" interactibles?

No, your straw man argument is not what I'm "telling everyone". I said there's many different ways to get around the interactables, but most of the time they're inconsistent. And all of those ways are useless when the interactables are used as resets. It's also not all interactables that are ridiculous, as Vulcan pointed out, but a lot of them are.

LBSH. The only way you can lose a match before it starts is if you give up. You tell yourself that a match is over before the loading screen is done, then yep. It's over. I never complain about interactibles when I get nailed with them. I might curse about my damned luck or rage a little that I fell for it but I always say "Sure, you got me this time. But next time will be different." If you can't say that then you might want to consider a new hobby.

That's not what I mean by losing the match before it starts. I don't mean literally losing before the match starts, because for one that's not even possible. What I mean by that is the opponent already, before the match starts, has a huge advantage based purely on luck if it's random stage or 50/50. And for some match-ups, the stage makes, for example, a 5-5 MU turn into a 7-3 or worse MU.

Again though, this isn't what the thread is aimed at. That is a ruling problem, and if the interactables are nerfed, it won't be nearly as big of a problem. Also, you need to check that attitude at the door, and remember who you're talking to.

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

Juggs, STORMS, Tom Brady, REO, CD jr, GGA 16 Bit, GamerBlake90 STB TakeAChance, Tim Static

Let's have a community meeting on this. Endless threads aren't going to help. We need to get together and talk this out.

I propose a skype session with multiple community leaders. A "mandatory" live podcast with stream chat for everyone at TYM. Discussing the following:
- banning certain stages permanently, if any
- banning certain stages temporarily, if any
- making certain stages start in certain zones first, so you have to stage transition to access the respawing interactables
- a united voice on what we want to petition NRS to change, if anything

I'll volunteer to host it, if the community would allow it. I can keep my cool, I can argue my own perspective, and try to find some kind of compromise that would make everyone happy. We can hear the arguments for any side in a serious talk about this. Because this needs to be resolved or we'll tear each other apart.

Can we do this? Forum posts aren't going to solve anything for anyone.

 

[Juggs]

Juggs, STORMS, Tom Brady, REO, CD jr, GGA 16 Bit, @Gamerblake STB TakeAChance, Tim Static

Let's have a community meeting on this. Endless threads aren't going to help. We need to get together and talk this out.

Can we do this? Forum posts aren't going to solve anything for anyone.

We can do this, of course.

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

We can do this, of course.

Talk to me about when, I'll gladly host the thing, prep questions, etc. We just have to get the most influential players to care about having the discussion. Can you help make this happen?

 

[NightwingDayZero]

Fighting games are a spectator sport so much as they are a competitive game.

Marvel 3 is so huge because X-factor is some bullshit. Injustice needs its own brand. No one wants to see me throw a street sign and do 5% damage. There needs to be a reward to the risk.

That said, I do believe there should be some limit to the infinitely respawning stage interactables. Increase their value by making them less readily available. This makes them more pertinent to the moment in the match. If I know that drone will only swoop overhead but a couple times on Watch Tower, I might adjust my gameplan to accommodate.

 

[Koor]

Maybe if they made them blockable (with chip) but if not blocking you take the full damage?

 

[Rip Torn]

I only like the background bounce and combo extender type of interactables (like the machine gunner in the tank on the left side of Metropolis: Street). At least those require you to hit your opponent into them mid-combo.

I don't like that power character's can get 22% for slamming the car on you and it's also unblockable. That's too much damage.

 

[Jer]

Under_The_Mayo Could I possibly be in this conversation as well?

 

[chessmaster]

I only like the background bounce and combo extender type of interactables (like the machine gunner in the tank on the left side of Metropolis: Street). At least those require you to hit your opponent into them mid-combo.

I don't like that power character's can get 22% for slamming the car on you and it's also unblockable. That's too much damage.

I forgot some interactables are combo extenders. I like those interactables. It's the throwable objects I have a problem with.

 

[CCVengeance]

So if they ban Interactables those that mean I have to turn them off when I play you guys online?
Under_The_Mayo Thank you.Cant wait to see the top members of the community go all JSA on stages.

 

[Lumpymoomilk]

They do a bit too much damage, it certainly does help me out when I'm fighting little runaway zoners with doomsday when I'm out of meter though.

 

[DownfouralitY]

the podcast idea is awesome. definitely do it

 

[CCVengeance]

Under_The_Mayo Could I possibly be in this conversation as well?

No Scrubs Allowed.#Kappa

 

[WaywardStranger]

Interactables are what make this game balanced. Not that it matters but I, for one, will not attend a tournament that bans interactables. Banning select stages is a different story; I wouldn't be entirely opposed to the idea.

Btw, tournament rules should be first match 50/50 stage select, after that loser picks the stage.

 

[Jer]

No Scrubs Allowed.#Kappa

Bahahhaha I lost to interactables at ECT

 

[MastrNCmmndr]

As someone who mains Bane, interactables seem almost unfair when playing against the likes of the zoning power characters. Without any zone control, my opponents are allowed to choose exactly where they want to fight, and that usually ends up near the interactables. Those like the robot on stryker's island, rooftop/watchtower's respawning robots, or the car at wayne manor make it a nightmare for Bane to get in on a competent player without taking big risks/residual zoning damage. Free, high unblockable damage is absurd, and the displacement of the characters when they go for the interactable make it nearly impossible to catch them.

 

[CCVengeance]

Bahahhaha I lost to interactables at ECT

Watching ECT and UFGT it hurt my soul everytime a great player lost because of silly interactable.I used to love the idea but it(like alot of stuff in the game) is highly bullshitstic and as someone said on the thread earlier I wouldnt mind if they get banned.

 

[TH3DISTURBED1]

I think Juggs and UsedForGlue have a good idea on this. I can't tell you the amount of times I've seen the game won or lost based on the stage instead of the player. Rooftop in Metropolis is a pretty stupid one or even Ferris Aircraft.

 

[garik16]

I agree with this. Though I'd suggest making them blockable as a nerf (they can have good chip damage or whatever). I know people talk about how cool it is that the corner is sometimes no longer a bad place to be due to interactables, but to me it's kind of silly that you can get your opponent to the corner and now YOU need to back off lest you take an interactable to the face. Make it so you can block a timely use of them, and voila, still useful yet less stupid.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

lbsh there are only 4-5 problematic interactables that need small tweaking. No reason to start discussing "stage bans" and "universal interactable nerfs".

1. Robots in Metropolis Rooftop/Watchtower -> Reduce vertical hitbox to allow every character to avoid it with a late jump
2. Cars with fullscreen hitbox -> Reduce horizontal hitbox

Besides those, what else truly needs fixing? The Pig? Yo don't touch the Pig. It makes the crowd hype and it's fair because every character uses it the same way.

edit: The dumpster in Gotham City Alley should be limited to 3 uses for gadget characters OR do 10% instead of 18%.

 

[Jer]

Watching ECT and UFGT it hurt my soul everytime a great player lost because of silly interactable.I used to love the idea but it(like alot of stuff in the game) is highly bullshitstic and as someone said on the thread earlier I wouldnt mind if they get banned.

It happens. I had to eat TV's on asylum against GL EVEN though I MB'd the second on reaction and got a full punish, I shouldnt have eaten 20% to get a vortex.

 

[RIF]

Coming from an MVC background, I initially had a very difficult time dealing with and accepting interactables as part of a competitive game. After I started treating these items as assists, I began to have better ways to incorporate them into my gameplay.

However, there are some fundamental issues with interactables that need to be addressed:

- The damage is WAY too high. 20% to throw an unblockable item? I am sorry, but this is a poor design. 5% would be perfect. I have won and lost matches solely based on the ability/inability to reach these items faster than my opponent. Is that what this game should be about? Who can grab this item and abuse it better than the opponent?

- The tracking is absurdly good. The tracking on Sinestro's trait seems to be programmed somewhat fairly while the tracking on these items was done with maximum efficiency in mind. The speed and tracking contribute to the imbalance. Two of the most powerful assists in UMVC3, Vajra and Missiles, are powerful in part due to their tracking. Missiles/Vajra ain't got shit on a heat-seeking robot.

- As many others have stated, the advantages for the power characters far outweigh those for gadget/acrobatic characters. I purposely pick Metropolis rooftop just because I can abuse the items while other non-power characters can simply curse over XBL. Power characters with strong Aeriel movement are extremely annoying to deal with.

While all of the above is certainly true, it's clear that interactables were created as a means of balance. This. Is. Bad. There are match-ups where the success of a character's gameplan is made DRASTICALLY more effective when leveraging interactables. Any changes to the mechanism MAY skew match-ups rather greatly.

I am all for using interactables as a means of escaping a bad situation. I prefer it to trying to pushblock and losing a meter. I am all for variety in gameplay, but not when the core purpose of the game (fighting) is not as efficient as throwing items across the screen.

The solution? I am not sure there is one, but I would like to see the following and gauge the results before further changes:

- Damage on interactables reduced to 5%.
- More corner interactables added to grant characters the ability to escape.