Match-up Discussion Hawkgirl Matchup Discussion

[TurboTaco]

I know she just came out but I think Batgirl might be a tough matchup for hawkgirl. You can't use fly at all our she does her smoke teleport. Same with throwing maces as the recovery is so long she can smoke drop you. Also I found when try to do mace charge she has some cartwheel move that can kick you out of it.

 

[Boodendorf]

I know she just came out but I think Batgirl might be a tough matchup for hawkgirl. You can't use fly at all our she does her smoke teleport. Same with throwing maces as the recovery is so long she can smoke drop you. Also I found when try to do mace charge she has some cartwheel move that can kick you out of it.

How good is she against pressure and oki setups? If we can't zone her, we'll just have to rush her down, just like DD.

All we need to know is if she got good wakeup/gtfo moves, what are their input, are they on the same button like DS' swordflip and swordspin (meaning you can't crossup to invert their input and fuck them up )?

 

[Boodendorf]

Yeaaah, thanks to the patch Sinestro has now become a 8-2 matchup for Hawkgirl. Great.
As soon as he got his trait, which is now soooo easy to get, it's game fucking over.

Edit: some more details because I was salty and decided not to record my fights against somebody's random sinestro out of salt:
-You have to make sure you don't get hit by ANYTHING up close. Be it a d1, that forward axe move or whatever he can do, because if he does, he's gonna confirm that into a combo that will sends you fullscreen and lets him get his trait for free. This is basically gonna take your WHOLE life bar.
-You have to be very careful once you knock him down, he now got a good reversal that he can even MB on block to annoy the fuck out of you if you tried to punish it. Catching his backdash is hard, and his walk back is annoying to deal with as your only lows are slow. With trait on he's pretty much invincible unless you cross him up using we3 and mess up his inputs for that arachnid attack.
-Once fullscreen, you have to be the most patient motherfucker. Especially if he got his trait on. If you think he's gonna charge his trait, mace toss mb to answer that.
-The sky is not your friend once he got his trait. This is the sole reason that makes the matchup so difficult.
-Dash, block, dash, block. Every projectile is unsafe, except for mb fear ball. Anything can be a trap once he got his trait on, it's all about you guessing right. You can't react to it.
-Clashing Sinestro cancels his trait.

 

[TrulyAmiracle]

Transitions cancel his trait too, and him using super as well. Dunno if it cancels if you super him.

Sucks to hear that the MU is even worse now, that was by far Hawky's worst MU imo

 

[Espio]

I haven't fought any Sinestros since the new patch hit, so I cannot really comment on the match up now, but prior to his buffs I had it as 4-6 in Sinestro's favor, I wanna run it a lot more with the buffed up Sinestro and give my new thoughts. I wanna adjust to his new buffs first.

 

[Tiger Wong]

Played a couple Sinestros and I won twice out of about 12 and those two victories were early. They were also because I made a good guess to get in while his trait wasn't up.

Every other loss was pretty much a massacre. If you get in and have the unfortunate pleasure of getting combo'd into his tentacle MB and they trait charge right after it....... Well I really don't know what to tell you. He already dominates you from long range and because of her jump arc and jump speed, you'll still get nailed by the meteors. With trait up, everything turns into a trap.

"Yes! I predicted a shot and jumped over!....... aw hell, I just got pewed."
"Ok, I stepped in and got to mid range. I'll WE3 to get close and ....... pew! pew!"

Getting in is really tough. With trait, it's near impossible. And the gap between HG and Sinestro isn't as big up close now that the tentacle was improved upon.

Best thing I do is get the first hit or get in with WE3 and stay on his ass while being wary of tentacles and that rising hand thingy. Play your opponent. Not Sinestro. Make him do that straight shot by not jumping or flying and then fly into a quick MC. At least it'll get you close even if you are taking a risk. It's better than the alternative.

Do not jump or Fly when trait is on. EVER.


EDIT* Later tonight I'm gonna lab and use Sinestro, so I can better understand his abilities. I really don't know if the Pew-Pew is automatic or if the opponent presses a button to shoot it. I've been spying the Sinestro forums too to see what I can pick up.

With WW and Superman, and even Batman you can still FLY at times and kind of play a midair mindgame by Flying and then divekick just to see if they'll do something and then they'll whiff and you may be able to punish what they attempt. Or Fly and then MC and fly cancel the fall and divekick really quick if you cross past them.

I don't even know what to suggest as a buff to HG to change the MU vs Sinestro.

 

[TrulyAmiracle]

Honestly, the main issue im noticing is stupid moves that have auto-tracking result in a shitty match for hawkgirl by default. if a move from above (Doomsday's supernova, Sinestro boulders, Batgirl teleport) coz that alone clips Hawkgirl's wings and pretty much shuts down any flight stuff you can do. Ones from below like Nightwing's and Aquaman's arent really an issue obv but its still a pain to deal with when you're on the ground.
The whole design aspect is fuckin stupid and imo i think they should all be directed like Viper's seismos or Skrull meteor smash with L/M/H having set ranges or like Raven's pillars and Cyborg's missiles arent tracking and you direct them with b/f/u after the special's input. This auto-tracking garbage is omega dumb.

I dont think a buff to Hawky is gonna make the Sinestro matchup better, only buff i can think of that miiight help is faster startup on ground mace toss and even that i'm not sure of. idk, maybe some BS like making WE3 meterburnable and have armor or some shit loool. Thats obviously not happen though.

Its just how the designs of characters clash, characters that are usually "unique" or have special aspects will have skewed matchups be it in their favor or against it. SF4 Blanka (or blanka in general) is the best similar example i can think of where he has the same issue with him dominating some matchups and losing terribly in some others.

 

[Tiger Wong]

Honestly, the main issue im noticing is stupid moves that have auto-tracking result in a shitty match for hawkgirl by default. if a move from above (Doomsday's supernova, Sinestro boulders, Batgirl teleport) coz that alone clips Hawkgirl's wings and pretty much shuts down any flight stuff you can do.

Seriously, that's why these moves are stupid and people think they're broken.

Autotracking drop down moves are really BS. Like you said, you press a button or a motion and it should go full screen, another motion/button it goes midscreen, another motion/button right in front. MB can be autotrack.

 

[Chongo]

As a Nightwing main, I feel that Hawkgirl wins this MU. When she's in flight mode she effectively takes away all of his dirt. You cannot Ground Blast her, you cannot WingDing her, you cannot Ground Spark her, etc. Flying Grayson is a decent option, though you'll most likely get hit out of hit by a Mace trying to get in or you'll hit her and put her back full screen.

However, once NW either gets in or he gets the life lead, the mu is in his favor. He can keep up the pressure long enough to make a difference. Up close is the only time Staff is preferred.


I think it's a hard 6-4 her favor.

 

[Boodendorf]

I haven't fought any Sinestros since the new patch hit, so I cannot really comment on the match up now, but prior to his buffs I had it as 4-6 in Sinestro's favor, I wanna run it a lot more with the buffed up Sinestro and give my new thoughts. I wanna adjust to his new buffs first.

Basically Sinestro's trait is like a fullscreen instant lantern's might that can be done three times after any combo u_u. Guessing correctly becomes impossible, you can't react to it and avoid it ._..
Imo once Sinestro got his trait up it easily becomes a 9-1 matchup in his favor.
Waiting to find decent batgirl players, I'm sure it's possible to deal with her teleport similarly to DD's supernova (mb b3) so it shouldn't be all that bad as long as you play the matchup just like against dd, as in rush the fuck outta her.

 

[Jon Berg]

Basically Sinestro's trait is like a fullscreen instant lantern's might that can be done three times after any combo u_u. Guessing correctly becomes impossible, you can't react to it and avoid it ._..
Imo once Sinestro got his trait up it easily becomes a 9-1 matchup in his favor.
Waiting to find decent batgirl players, I'm sure it's possible to deal with her teleport similarly to DD's supernova (mb b3) so it shouldn't be all that bad as long as you play the matchup just like against dd, as in rush the fuck outta her.

Well as far as batgirls teleport, its insanely easy to deal with. Just hold down, and full combo punish lol. You can easily do it on reaction, even online. I find the teleport is the easiest thing to deal with in regards to her. The only problem is anytime you go into the sky at all she will teleport and destroy. Have to stay grounded in this matchup for the most part.

 

[TrulyAmiracle]

Not to mention she's actually decent upclose, bitch has a DP yo..

 

[learis1]

I'm confused about Raven's attacks. Is her soul crush pretty much a near full screen lantern's might, or can you avoid it flying at max height? It's so annoying fighting her online. She just walks back spamming that and I get my one dash and then have to downback and wait for another.

 

[TarkatanDentist]

I'm confused about Raven's attacks. Is her soul crush pretty much a near full screen lantern's might, or can you avoid it flying at max height? It's so annoying fighting her online. She just walks back spamming that and I get my one dash and then have to downback and wait for another.

Fly at any height above her head and outside of Singularity range and there's nothing she can do about it.

 

[TrulyAmiracle]

yeah it doesnt reach max height if you're flying, and Soul crush's range is around 80% of the screen. and she's very negative on block. You can dash after blocking one till you're close enough to punish with d1 or w/e if she tries to through anything out.

If you're in range to WE3 try to bait her to do anything then WE3 to get in and wreck her, she's really ass upclose.

if she's doing teleport shenanigans just d2 and you'll smack her no matter what teleport she does.

 

[Jon Berg]

yeah it doesnt reach max height if you're flying, and Soul crush's range is around 80% of the screen. and she's very negative on block. You can dash after blocking one till you're close enough to punish with d1 or w/e if she tries to through anything out.

If you're in range to WE3 try to bait her to do anything then WE3 to get in and wreck her, she's really ass upclose.

if she's doing teleport shenanigans just d2 and you'll smack her no matter what teleport she does.

Also if you are in the air for teleport d3 beats it everytime as well.

 

[Xenrail]

wtf do i do against mace charge as flash?

 

[EmInEnTShAdOw]

wtf do i do against mace charge as flash?

Do you mean like if Hawky does it on wakeup? I don't play as the flash, but I just went to the lab real quick. If you're baiting it out on her wakeup, you could do speed dodge. If its on wakeup, you can backdash and do sweep. Sweep allows flash to go under it, you just have to time it right. Not sure what you can do after.

 

[Xenrail]

Do you mean like if Hawky does it on wakeup? I don't play as the flash, but I just went to the lab real quick. If you're baiting it out on wakeup, you could do speed dodge. If its on wakeup, you can backdash and do sweep. Sweep allows flash to go under it, you just have to time it right. Not sure what you can do after.

when i backdash her charge catches it. from the looks of it mace charge is fullscreen

 

[TrulyAmiracle]

Its not fullscreen, its around 65% or so. Against mace charge jumping back and using a normal on the way down usually works for most characters.
You can also cross it up, basically hit her while she's still doing the twirl thing before she charges.

In short, the idea is that you need to stuff it from another direction or make it whiff. If you block it she's safe.

 

[Boodendorf]

Lex - HG : 7-3

I was sure Lex was a bad matchup for HG, but never fought one, until now, I finally fought an amazing lex.
I got stomped, 15-3, Lex is exactly like Green Lantern: He annihilates both HG's zoning and rushdown ability.
-He outzones you, completely, you have to rush in.
-He controls the space much, much better than you. J3, eyeball laser thing and air corp charge won't let you rest.
-It's like he has infinite armor, his trait comes back very quickly and will destroy nearly everything you do. Best thing to do against it is to try to close on him without actually attacking. Just block, tech throws and wait for his trait to run out.
-If you guess right and if you're about 3/4 screen away, a mb mace toss can destroy his trait on startup, even if he tries to backdash out.
-The ONLY stage where I managed to win was Great Hall. He'll destroy you on any other stage, especially atlantis.
-Armor makes EVERYTHING YOU DO, except we3/we2, unsafe.
-Think of his "suck in" gravity attack as a mini, worse lantern's might, it can catch your wing evade.
-Gravity hand thing and corp charge are both on the same button and have opposite inputs, meaning that we2 setups to reverse intups will just get you destroyed half of the time. On the other hand gravity hand is very unsafe on block so try to bait that out if you do use we2 setups.
-There are no real ways to deal with j3, except HG's early j1.
-He got LOTS of frametraps, pushblocking is your friend against those. This guy is surprisingly safe.
-Wakeup mace charge definitely isn't your friend here, especially when he got armor. Wakeup mace charge is good against his mine setups though.

On a side note, he knew the HG matchup very well as he fought against me multiple times. He practically could read my mind sometimes, that didn't help lol.

That's all I can think of right now. Unfortunately while I was recording my computer ran out of battery (I thought I did plug it in, guess I didn't), so I got like 2 match and a half recorded lol... Guess I have to wait for my next encounter against him then lol.

 

[EmInEnTShAdOw]

btw, what do you use to record Boo? HDMI straight to laptop with some kinda video recording software?

 

[Boodendorf]

Got the lex footage, ended up losing 10-6. You guys will see what I'm talking about lol, it really is a nightmarish matchup.

btw, what do you use to record Boo? HDMI straight to laptop with some kinda video recording software?

HD PVR, didn't know it was possible to just plug in and use a software. DID I WASTE 250€ FOR NOTHIIIIIING D: ?

 

[EmInEnTShAdOw]

Got the lex footage, ended up losing 10-6. You guys will see what I'm talking about lol, it really is a nightmarish matchup.


HD PVR, didn't know it was possible to just plug in and use a software. DID I WASTE 250€ FOR NOTHIIIIIING D: ?

Actually, my badd. PCs just have HDMI outputs to transmit data versus receive it, so that won't work. Like I could blast stuff from my laptop onto an hdtv, but not from an hdtv onto my laptop. so no-you didn't waste all that money, lol. I also have an SD tv, so i should just look into easycap. I've never really had an interest in recording anything for gaming until now.

 

[ApertureBlack]

How do I get her out of the air as Frost