General/Other Shazam buffs we want.

[DuskAlloy]

Who would you put below him currently? my bottom 3 right now is Bane, Lex, Shazam.

I would of put joker instead of bane due to bane's new buffs, he is still bad but better the other bottom tiers imo

 

[G4S Killin Natzees]

Who would you put below him currently? my bottom 3 right now is Bane, Lex, Shazam.

I currently believe, and this could just be me being ignorant, idk, that he goes above:
Lex, Bane, Lobo, harley, Joker, Hawkgirl and maybe Ares.

I could be very wrong, as I don't main him. I just feel he's being downplayed. I see that a good AA is being a common suggestion, but not many people have that strong of AA's

 

[ll Nooby ll]

Seriously! He's very bad considering.

I mean what advantage does he have over other grapplers?

Lobo has the same setups but way better, because his combos do full damage and end in a 50/50 throw setup where Shazam's need to lose a lot to go back to that situation. He also has better throw traps on block.

Grundy's command throws also work on knockdown/block and deal as much meterless as Shazam's do with meter.

Frost has the same command throw setup on knockdown (223 > Dash > DBF2) and she gets insane damage for it.


It isn't like his normals or zoning are any better either. His normals are all short, unsafe, or super slow. His zoning is a joke in 90% of matchups.

Low damage, bad normals, inferior mixups, bad AA, VERY meter dependent, weak damage off of fast punishers, weak zoning, etc.

All he can do is get a knockdown and keep 50/50ing them (assuming he has meter) and other characters do that way better.

Can't you end combos in sweep and get setups like frost?

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

I would of put joker instead of bane due to bane's new buffs, he is still bad but better the other bottom tiers imo

Yo Joker is actually really good in my book.

I thought he sucked at first but after playing Valle I see that the char is strong. The fact that he can hold that gunshot and release it at any time is insane. He outzones a lot of chars too. His hitconfirm buffs last patch were really nice too.

 

[THTB]

Just saying, Chef, you can no longer punish Shazam for doing 22 xx command throw of choice. In fact, he's actually at a slight frame advantage now, depending on the backdash.

I don't think Shazam needs much. AA is such a moot point because a huge chunk of the cast have a tough time dealing with jumps. His sweep being safer, though, I totally agree. That's probably the only thing I want to actually see done to him at this point, aside from the usual AA buffing for some characters.

 

[DuskAlloy]

Yo Joker is actually really good in my book.

I thought he sucked at first but after playing Valle I see that the char is strong. The fact that he can hold that gunshot and release it at any time is insane. He outzones a lot of chars too. His hitconfirm buffs last patch were really nice too.

Maybe, Joker isnt a character I know a lot about although yes i have heard his buffs were nice but still a good player can make any character seem godlike, there was also a great player who I forgot the name of who was destroying with Lex

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

I currently believe, and this could just be me being ignorant, idk, that he goes above:
Lex, Bane, Lobo, harley, Joker, Hawkgirl and maybe Ares.

I could be very wrong, as I don't main him. I just feel he's being downplayed. I see that a good AA is being a common suggestion, but not many people have that strong of AA's

I promise you that Lobo is a better Shazam. People don't understand that he literally has Shazam's mixups but more consistent with higher damage. Similar mobility, although Lobo BF3 MB is a great great great way to get in. Lobo's normals are waaaay better, plus he has multiple viable AAs and air mobility in the form of D3.

Harley idk I feel like she has lots of potential but idk who is taking her seriously right now.

Joker I spoke about in my previous post, he's VERY dangerous.

Hawkgirl is either my last pick for bottom 4 or REALLY REALLY good I have no idea lol.

Ares I don't know. Maybe.

 

[DuskAlloy]

I promise you that Lobo is a better Shazam. People don't understand that he literally has Shazam's mixups but more consistent with higher damage. Similar mobility, although Lobo BF3 MB is a great great great way to get in. Lobo's normals are waaaay better, plus he has multiple viable AAs and air mobility in the form of D3.

Harley idk I feel like she has lots of potential but idk who is taking her seriously right now.

Joker I spoke about in my previous post, he's VERY dangerous.

Hawkgirl is either my last pick for bottom 4 or REALLY REALLY good I have no idea lol.

Ares I don't know. Maybe.

Hawkgirl is that one fucking character who nobody knows how good she is but has 7-3 MUs on characters like nightwing lol

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

Just saying, Chef, you can no longer punish Shazam for doing 22 xx command throw of choice. In fact, he's actually at a slight frame advantage now, depending on the backdash.

I don't think Shazam needs much. AA is such a moot point because a huge chunk of the cast have a tough time dealing with jumps. His sweep being safer, though, I totally agree. That's probably the only thing I want to actually see done to him at this point, aside from the usual AA buffing for some characters.

That isn't right at all.

You can still punish 22 xx command throw by standing/ducking correctly. Backdash is just a way to completely get out of the situation without guessing... which sucks for Shazam too...

 

[G4S Killin Natzees]

I promise you that Lobo is a better Shazam. People don't understand that he literally has Shazam's mixups but more consistent with higher damage. Similar mobility, although Lobo BF3 MB is a great great great way to get in. Lobo's normals are waaaay better, plus he has multiple viable AAs and air mobility in the form of D3.

Harley idk I feel like she has lots of potential but idk who is taking her seriously right now.

Joker I spoke about in my previous post, he's VERY dangerous.

Hawkgirl is either my last pick for bottom 4 or REALLY REALLY good I have no idea lol.

Ares I don't know. Maybe.

With the Lobo thing, I'd say he's pretty dependent on meter himself, maybe not as much as Shazam, but it's still where he gets his big damage. I'd say he takes about just as much risk as Shazam for his mixups, although Lobo wins the reward department.

 

[ZigZag]

EGP Wonder_Chef okay, I can see some of his problems now, but I really don't think that qualifies him for bottom 3 or 4 lol.

So i bring this to your attention you think nothing of it, Wonder chef does and it's all cool.. Pffft.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

With the Lobo thing, I'd say he's pretty dependent on meter himself, maybe not as much as Shazam, but it's still where he gets his big damage. I'd say he takes about just as much risk as Shazam for his mixups, although Lobo wins the reward department.

Yeah they're exactly even in terms of meter dependency and risk, but lobo has higher reward and better setups overall.

Lobo 12 xx Command Throw and 21 xx Command Throw are way way better than 22 xx Command Throw.

Shazam has to end his combos in his Low Throw to keep them in the mixup which takes his combos down to 29-32% damage MAXIMUM. All of Lobo's combos (including his meterless combos!) end in his BF3 which is optimal for damage AND puts them back into the mixup. Lobo gets 38% off of a straight command throw back into mixup, Shazam gets 32%. Lobo does higher if you combo off of any string, Shazam does lower if you combo off of any string.

 

[GAMETIME]

agreed with the buffs

 

[PND OmegaK]

He doesn't need an easier way of getting in, he just needs to be rewarded more or have an easier time once he is in. I agree that sweep should be safe and that b2 needs fixing. I'd like to see f2 be a little faster on startup too so he can maximise on punishing.

 

[killa_solid]

The two buffs that I def think he needs are:
D3 being around -4 and his torpedo having a faster startup.

 

[Hellion_96]

Man when i said Flash should have a safe sweep I was almost hanged and burned.

 

[killa_solid]

Man when i said Flash should have a safe sweep I was almost hanged and burned.

To be fair flash already has fast low that he can even combo off of and strings with good reach. Shazam d3 is his only low and his go to move for a fast long reach move. He is too reliant on his sweep for it to be unsafe imo.

 

[Hellion_96]

To be fair flash already has fast low that he can even combo off of and strings with good reach. Shazam d3 is his only low and his go to move for a fast long reach move. He is too reliant on his sweep for it to be unsafe imo.

Flash's d1 is outranged by every other d1 in the game and flash's sweep doesn;t lead to a 50/50 of wakeup attack or eat an unblockable grab

 

[killa_solid]

Flash's d1 is outranged by every other d1 in the game and flash's sweep doesn;t lead to a 50/50 of wakeup attack or eat an unblockable grab

I thought flash did get a 50/50 after every hard knockdown with his overhead or low.
d1 being out ranged, while it might be true, doesnt eliminate the fact that it gives him a safe overhead or low mix up close into a full combo.

 

[Hellion_96]

I thought flash did get a 50/50 after every hard knockdown with his overhead or low.
d1 being out ranged, while it might be true, doesnt eliminate the fact that it gives him a safe overhead or low mix up close into a full combo.

All flash's offence comes from hard knockdowns into his 50/50 but flash's 50/50 is blockable your not forced to wakeup. My point is they should both get safe sweeps

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

Flash's d1 is outranged by every other d1 in the game and flash's sweep doesn;t lead to a 50/50 of wakeup attack or eat an unblockable grab

Also Shazam is sort of forced to use it in footsies since his other normals are kinda bad at it. Flash has other footsies options.

 

[Hellion_96]

Also Shazam is sort of forced to use it in footsies since his other normals are kinda bad at it. Flash has other footsies options.

Haha iam not trying to start a flash argument in a shazam thread i just thought it was funny everyone thought Flash would be broke with a safe sweep. I'm all for shazam buffs

 

[Mojo]

I don't know how anyone else feels about this, but I think HM should get a damage buff to about 20%, and low grab should do about 15%. I hate having high low command grabs that I can't get decent damage off of without meter.

 

[theSkareqro]

I want his 3 to be useful. What the hell is that used for?!
db.2 to hit mid

 

[Mojo]

I use 3 a lot in footsies never tested any of this in training mode, but I'm pretty sure you get a torpedo or HM mixup on block or hit.