The Quan Chi Improvement Thread: Speak Up!

[M2Dave]

REO and I started exchanging Quan Chi strategies one night on AIM and we were disappointed to discover how limited this character really is. To make matters worse, while the previously known low tier characters (i.e., Baraka and Sheeva) have received buffs in the hotfix, Quan Chi's powerful tools are being removed with no apparent compensations in sight.

I know that the developers browse TYM / MKU, so gentlemen, can you please fix this character? Below are my personal complaints and suggestions. I encourage REO and other Quan Chi players to post their own opinions too.

Quan Chi's Character Design: strong zoning, risky but rewarding 50/50 mix ups up close, poor defense

Ground Burst series: d,b+1 fires a small pillar of energy right next to Quan Chi; d,f+1 fires one mid screen; d,b,f+1 fires one 3/4th of the screen away. The enhanced version of the move is unblockable. It is the only unblockable attack in the game that can be linked after any cancelable string. The Ground Burst series competes with Cyrax's Saw Blade (b,f+2) for the most useless special move in the game. Its recovery frames on block have been programmed to be laughably long. The move is highly risky to employ yet provides no reward whatsoever.

My Suggestion: I think the Ground Burst series ought to function similarly to Shang Tsung's Ground Skulls. Perhaps that is what the developers initially had in mind. All Ground Bursts should be safe on block with the closest version giving Quan Chi slight advantage. However, the enhanced version should not be unblockable. It should launch instead and propel the opponent toward Quan Chi for a juggle. The enhanced versions should also have more active frames. None of these suggestions would be overpowered if implemented appropriately. The move would only have some usefulness.

Trance (b,f+3): From what I understand, the Trance was very powerful in the beta version of the game, so it has been changed accordingly. Many Quan Chi players feel that the current incarnation of the move leaves something to be desired, but I understand the move's ramifications on gameplay if it were any better.

My Suggestion: I honestly think the move is fine the way it is. The Trance is a "tricky" special move. Make it any more unsafe and it becomes useless; make it any safer and it creates a lot of mismatches against those characters who lack a fast punishment tool. The Trance could perhaps be somewhat faster since Quan Chi lacks a fast punishment tool himself. I have no serious complaints otherwise.

Skeletal Boost (d,b+4): This special move gives Quan Chi a health or power boost. The game randomly decides which one the player acquires which is one of the most absurd things that I have ever seen in any fighting game. Of course, there ought to be two separate notations. The Skeletal Boost is a nice idea, but the special move has few applications due to its slow speed. Besides, not only does Quan Chi lose the health / power boost when he gets hit, he also loses either when he blocks an attack. This makes the move virtually unusable at any level.

My suggestion: First of all, there should be two separate notations for the health and power boost. The health boost could be d,b+4 while the power boost could be d,f+4. It really makes no difference. Second of all, the Skeletal Boost should be applicable after the Trance as currently it is not. Yes, I am well aware that Quan Chi would be able to regenerate his life after each combo. I am also well aware that Quan Chi's combos would do more damage. These two legitimate concerns, however, can be balanced by toning down the life that is gained and the damage that is increased. The EX Skeletal Boost is fine the way it is.

Sky Drop (d,b+3): The Sky Drop is very slow and translates to death on block should you use it carelessly. You can man maneuver Quan Chi to appear in front or behind your opponent which is more of a gimmick than an actual strategy. All of these move properties are acceptable to an extent. The EX version, however, should be a lot better.

My Suggestion: The EX Sky Drop should be safe and faster. I am not out of my mind. Sektor already has a similar tool (i.e., enhanced d,f+4) except his launches too. The EX Sky Drop is meant to be Quan Chi's primary wake up attack at the cost of one bar of super meter.

Skull Ball (d,b+2): The Skull Ball is a great projectile that is overshadowed by Quan Chi's ineffectiveness as a character. It is fine the way it currently is.

My suggestion: None.

As far as normal attacks are concerned, u+3 is special-cancelable yet 2,1,u+3 is not even though the combo ends with an attack that is normally special-cancelable. This makes no sense and should be changed.

 

[REO]

Excellent write-up. I 100% agree with skeletal boost and ground burst needing buffs.


My suggestions for buffs:

Ground Burst
- Make it safe on block by removing some recovery or start up frames. I really don't understand why it isn't safe to begin with. It has poor start up and horrible recovery, can be avoided easily, is blockable and doesn't even lead to anything if it happens to hit. The current form of this move is virtually useless.
- Reduce the negative edge window on his close rune and medium rune, this is to prevent it conflicting with his far rune. It puts a lot of unnecessary struggling into some of his simple combos that end in far rune because of the horrible negative edge.
- Enable him to use it as a wake-up attack.

Skeletal Boost
- Allow us to use skeletal boost after U+2 or 1,1,2 knockdown. Okay, for whatever reason if you do skeletal boost after U+2 or 1,1,2, the game will automatically remove your buff. I don't understand why? Do you know how much damage Quan Chi sacrafices when he goes for a U+2 after trance, it's basically a whole combo loss for a (random) situational boost. This would give Quan Chi the option to go for a semi-guaranteed boost but for a price. (damage)
- Give an option to go for health boost or damage boost like m2dave mentioned in the original post. Right now it is just random and it will give you damage when you don't need it or health when you could've used damage. This special, like the ground burst, is non-existant in decent level play (and above) which is a complete shame.
- Skeletal boost needs to stay active and not be removed when hit or chipped.


Bugs that should be fixed:

Sky Drop
- Give Quan Chi more space when choosing to land behind the opponent. Right now the move is bugged where if you decide to land behind them he lands too close and if your opponent crouch blocks, they block it as if you wanted to land above them.

2,1,U+3
- Allow us to 2 in 1 (cancel with special) off the last hit. The last hit in this string is the same exact move as standalone U+3 in which you could cancel with specials. Why can't we cancel with specials after the string? It would definintely make this string worth using as it feels currently bugged.




Overall, Quan Chi is slow, unsafe, and very gimmicky. He has the worst wake-up option (not even options) I've ever seen in a game, with it just being his unsafe sky drop. He has no air control and poor punishing as well, two areas where if lacking, is a big downside. Quan Chi is also heavily meter reliant, match-ups where he cannot build meter he struggles severely in.

 

[mPariah]

Really good points, I agree with them all. Do we know if he's getting buffed in the upcoming patch or is that unknown? Who knows, they might buff him up.

 

[Krayzie]

An issue I have with his guided stomps is that you can crouch block his backward guided stomp on reaction. Which sort of eliminates the point of the guided stomp in the first place.

Other than that, I like this thread. I think Quan Chi has potential to be a pretty good character if he gets tweaked a bit.

 

[DanCock]

very nice write up.. i agree with all this.. quan may seem hard to face at first when your unaware of his gimmicks, which i was last night vs reo and got owned by them. but then i went into practice and found out how to punish and face his stuff..

the one thing that stood out is i just couldnt understand why his Ground Burst moves were so unsafe

 

[REO]

An issue I have with his guided stomps is that you can crouch block his backward guided stomp on reaction. Which sort of eliminates the point of the guided stomp in the first place.

Other than that, I like this thread. I think Quan Chi has potential to be a pretty good character if he gets tweaked a bit.

I totally forgot to include this in my post. His sky drop is bugged so that if you choose to land behind them Quan Chi lands too close which enables them to crouch block it. It's weird and makes a risky move even more risky.

 

[M2Dave]

Really good points, I agree with them all. Do we know if he's getting buffed in the upcoming patch or is that unknown? Who knows, they might buff him up.

I hope they do. Bone is right when he says that Quan Chi only needs minor tweaks to be good. I feel the same. Honestly, I hope NRS buffs Jax too. He deserves some buffs. We'll see what happens.

By the way, it's great that the developers are patching infinite combos and improving low tier characters. Some of us who have been around since MK: DA / MK: D have been disappointed many times.

 

[DanCock]

I totally forgot to include this in my post. His sky drop is bugged so that if you choose to land behind them Quan Chi lands too close which enables them to crouch block it. It's weird and makes a risky move even more risky.

interesting bone and reo i didnt know that either..

i still feel like the worst player ever since i got so owned by quan yesterday.... one things for sure after the patch im taking every character into practice and learning everything about them as i can..

 

[Fallacy]

I like quan alot and i wish rune trap wasn't being removed he really will need something to replace it.

Personally I feel that sky drop should definitely be improved, as it stands quan has no wake up options so i agree with m2dave's suggestion of an improved ex sky drop which can be thrown out on wakeup to escape certain situations.

I actually don't think skeletal boost is bad as it is mostly because of it being free off trades with trance, personally i think this makes a lot of matchups vs zoners much improved because if they do trade with you, you are guaranteed either damage boost or health regen. I think changes to other moves allowing for a chance to skeletal boost would be much better than changing skeletal boost itself, right now the main problem with skeletal boost is there are no setups for it.

Ground burst is a move which i don't really understand the intention behind, i mean with the rune trap at least the move is getting used but without it there is no reason to ever risk an unsafe ground burst especially when i can just throw a skull to control space without worrying about where my opponent is. Even if ground burst where made safe i don't think it would be that useful. Personally i would like to see a rework of this move, m2dave suggested that the ex would launch instead of being unblockable and this i can get behind: if the move was both safe and i got a launch which i could combo off and maybe link into trance that would be worth it, and if i had time to skeletal boost after a hit and maybe go for a mixup instead even better now this still leaves me with not much reason to use the regular version but tons of reasons for the ex so my other suggestion is to have ex linkable after the normal version so i can hit confirm ground burst --> ex ground burst for a launch, this gives me a reason to use both versions of the move.

Quan chi is currently a character who depends on meter perhaps more than any other character because of the rune trap. with this rebuild he is still highly meter dependent perhaps moreso he is a monster with meter but a shy lamb without it, and first hit is a must get. Yet i really like the character and i hope beyond hope that he is improved in some way.

 

[M2Dave]

Good post, Fallacy.

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. Keep it coming.

 

[Clone1]

Good shit guys, I agree 100% with all this too.
I really do hope NRS look into these suggestions for the upcoming patch.

 

[Phase 3]

I agree, Quan Chi has some of the most powerful tools in the game, but he's held back by some genuinely striking deficiencies.

Quan Chi needs to control space better. When you look at the moves he has, it's not hard to get an idea of what he was supposed to be, it's just that he's far from it because half his specials are completely broken and beyond any practical applications.

If they made it so the Runes could actually be used for zoning, he'd be a lot better. Given that it's not unblockable, it should at least track the opponent. The suggestion for having it launch is interesting, and something worth exploring. I don't think it should necessarily propel the character towards Quan Chi, but if it simply popped them up it could afford Quan Chi time to dash up and Trance, or go for a Skeletal Boost. In fact, this could improve the safety of his mixup game. If you go for a naked overhead with his U+3, you have to go for a Trance since you can't follow it up with anything else. If they block it, this is very unsafe. If you could potentially Rune afterward and have it pop up, this could solve that assuming Rune was made remotely safe. It could even lead to new combo opportunities. Speaking of that Skeletal Boost though...

Skeletal Boost is garbage. If you do it, tons of characters can punish it on reaction. You can try to use it after uppercuts, but even that's not very safe and you're often sacrificing a damage or a mixup opportunity for something that disappears on block. As mentioned, the worst part of Skeletal Boost is, beyond even its random element, is the fact that both buffs disappear when any damage is taken, including chip. This is such an interesting move, and it could truly be a defining gameplay characteristic. Quan Chi could really be built around strategically using these boosts but instead they're all but forgotten.

I'd have the buffs be different commands, sure, but I'd also change the buff strengths. I'd greatly improve the recovery of both buffs, and make them persist through chip damage (but still disappear if someone lands a clean hit) while simultaneously nerfing Quan Chi's damage output a bit. This way, Quan Chi could be a character that must buff himself to do decent damage or just focus on longevity through health returns. I think this would make him an even more unique character, although this might be too radical of a shift for many players. I would personally welcome this because of the strategy it would incorporate into his gameplan. Do you finish a combo with a damage buff, finish it with a health buff, or just finish out the combo for the extra guaranteed damage? I think this could be a really interesting dynamic, and if his damage was nerfed, it would make it feel like a necessity instead of some extreme damage reward. The necessity of the buff for good damage would add more weight to the decision as well, since if you choose health you know you're sacrificing your damage opposed to having a character that has pretty decent damage anyway. Whether or not it's like this, Skeletal Boost needs to be addressed.

I'm all for this thread, because not only does Quan Chi have a lot going for him, the things he lacks shouldn't be that hard to fix. It's also particularly depressing because I've been playing Quan Chi since before the game came out and at no point did I see regular Runes or Skeletal Boost as anything more than useless. They're just obviously bad moves, everyone can see it and nobody really defends either. Something this blatant should have been caught during balancing, but I guess that's why we're here now.

On a side note, his teleport is okay. I think it should be fixed so that the crouch doesn't mess it up, but I'm unsure if it should be improved if they're going to step up his zoning game. If they're just going to ignore Rune's issues and Skeletal Boost as a whole, at least perhaps they can adjust the Sky Drop. I will say this though, EX Sky Drop should absolutely be safe no matter what so he has at least ONE decent wake-up option.

 

[Loot]

Make him say woolay and a beeda bado may more.

 

[LunaticSoul]

Yeah, most of the Quan Chi specials are way too punishable. Skeletal Boost is useless,non-enhanced runes are useless too, too slow and too predictable to properly hit, and punishable if you do them at close range. If they remove the unblockable property from his ex ones, he'll just lose one of his most useful tools, without receiving anything in exchange.
The only good this he has is a great reset/mix-up mindgame, that destroys everyone who doesn't know how to deal with him. But that's not useful when you use Quan Chi against an experienced player..

 

[REO]

So I was talking to Tom Brady and he informed me on the changes Quan Chi will be getting in the full patch, which are as follows:


Nerfs
- When trance trades with a projectile he will not be able to skeletal boost for free anymore.
- When trance trades with a projectile he will not be able to reset into another trance anymore.
- Maximum spaced trance into whiff D+3 for another trance reset is removed.
- Safe jump on sky drop is being removed due to reduced hit stun.

Buffs
- Quan Chi can immediately move after after landing a trance.

 

[Tom Brady]

So I was talking to Tom Brady and he informed me on the changes Quan Chi will be getting in the full patch, which are as follows:


Nerfs
- When trance trades with a projectile he will not be able to skeletal boost for free anymore.
- When trance trades with a projectile he will not be able to reset into another trance anymore.
- Maximum spaced trance into whiff D+3 for another trance reset is removed.
- Hit stun on sky drop is being removed.

Buffs
- Quan Chi can immediately move after after landing a trance.

sky drop hit stun isnt being removed, its just less advantage.

FYI, rune trap was removed in the last tweak NRS just didnt tell anyone. i just found out yesterday.

 

[REO]

That's what I meant, you can't safe jump in for free anymore off the hit stun. But how much stun is being reduced exactly, can you still walk up and do something so they must block or do they have a chance to get out?

Anyway, edited post to make it more clear.

 

[G4S KT]

Make him say woolay and a beeda bado may more.

HAHA. Oh man, funniest thing I've read all week.

 

[Shadowzan]

So I was talking to Tom Brady and he informed me on the changes Quan Chi will be getting in the full patch, which are as follows:


Nerfs
- When trance trades with a projectile he will not be able to skeletal boost for free anymore.
- When trance trades with a projectile he will not be able to reset into another trance anymore.
- Maximum spaced trance into whiff D+3 for another trance reset is removed.
- Hit stun on sky drop is being removed.

Buffs
- Quan Chi can immediately move after after landing a trance.

Beforehand, thanks for the info REO.

So the loss of hit stun on sky drop means that Quan Chi won't be able to effectively end a combo with sky drop to lead to mix-ups? I'm sorry if I'm understanding that incorrectly.

I can understand the loss of a free skeletal boost, but there has to be changes that makes skeletal boost useable. I agree completely that you should be able to choose which boost you get. If it becomes possible to choose, then....
-The boost(s) need to come out quicker.
-The amount of life Quan Chi receives from life boost should be toned down and should still be lost on block.
-Damage boost can be nerfed down also but shouldn't go away on block. (I'll probably get heat for suggesting that haha, but I'm thinking maybe a net gain of 5% or something on combos with boost active. Significant but not overpowered.)

Ground burst needs to be useful. Simple as that. The idea for it to juggle would make it very desireable and would open up new combos.

 

[M2Dave]

So the loss of hit stun on sky drop means that Quan Chi won't be able to effectively end a combo with sky drop to lead to mix-ups? I'm sorry if I'm understanding that incorrectly.

All combos ending in the Sky Drop will remain. However, the Sky Drop will give less advantage on hit. You will still be able to force 50/50 mix ups on your opponent, but you will no longer be able to safe jump and mix up.

With Jax, Sheeva, and Baraka getting major buffs, Quan Chi is the only low tier character getting nothing. Rightfully, no one likes glitches and infinite combos. I agree with removing them. However, you would expect NRS to compensate for these losses. I see no compensations in sight, though. Nonetheless, Quan Chi will have some tools, but he will unquestionably be one of the most limited characters in the game. Quan Chi players will have to suffer until NRS decides to balance his special moves. Admittedly, his special moves are "tricky" to balance as I have said before. Currently, NRS is taking the easy way out and just making them useless.

 

[Robotic]

All combos ending in the Sky Drop will remain. However, the Sky Drop will give less advantage on hit. You will still be able to force 50/50 mix ups on your opponent, but you will no longer be able to safe jump and mix up.

With Jax, Sheeva, and Baraka getting major buffs, Quan Chi is the only low tier character getting nothing. Rightfully, no one likes glitches and infinite combos. I agree with removing them. However, you would expect NRS to compensate for these losses. I see no compensations in sight, though. Nonetheless, Quan Chi will have some tools, but he will unquestionably be one of the most limited characters in the game. Quan Chi players will have to suffer until NRS decides to balance his special moves. Admittedly, his special moves are "tricky" to balance as I have said before. Currently, NRS is taking the easy way out and just making them useless.

Harsh, but if true, appropriate. MODS, how can we make sure Netherrealm here's these concerns? Quan Chi is too cool a character to be last in line at the cafeteria.

 

[DanCock]

quan chi isn't a low tier. his stuff is just as good as scorpions and scorpion isn't a low tier.


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[mPariah]

quan chi isn't a low tier. his stuff is just as good as scorpions and scorpion isn't a low tier.


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Can you explain why he isn't? Just curious because from what I've seen there's a lot of evidence pointing to being low tier, and the statement you made was kind of vague. Not arguing just honestly curious.

 

[REO]

There are no low tiers in this game, everyone is mid (at worst) to high tier. And you can't compare Scorpion to Quan Chi anymore, Scorpion is keeping his safe jump loops, Quan Chi isn't. Scorpion is definitely a better character, I don't understand why he gets to keep his safe jump bullshit. (same with Sonya and Ermac)

 

[DanCock]

There are no low tiers in this game, everyone is mid (at worst) to high tier. And you can't compare Scorpion to Quan Chi anymore, Scorpion is keeping his safe jump loops, Quan Chi isn't. Scorpion is definitely a better character, I don't understand why he gets to keep his safe jump bullshit. (same with Sonya and Ermac)

excellent point.

where is this damn patch!!!!! it's driving me nuts waiting.





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