The Quan Chi Improvement Thread: Speak Up!

[Xstatic]

I was looking forward to using ground burst in block strings, but NRS stated they are not safe on block. IMO Quan Chi got nothing of value in the hotfix.

I don't understand why NRS wouldn't allow trance or skull after b3, 1+2. Was there a reason to do that in the first place? I always do a juggle string after b3, 1+2 anyways. Such a weird nerf...

 

[BigDaddyKrames]

Alright now that the hotfix is out, how do you think the faster runes improve Quan Chi? Personally I don't think it helped anything really. Now whenever I do his b+2,1, b+2,1, b+1,1 it's harder to cancel into rune unless they're really close to the ground. I still think he needs more buffs. They should make it so if you hit the ground burst from far or medium range you have time to safe jump or sky drop and they're forced to block it otherwise if they move they get hit by it.

Also you can no longer cancel b+3,1+2 into trance OR skull, which is really stupid.

Yeah, no idea why b+3,1+2 was nerfed, and the Ground Burst buff barely helps if it's not safe on block, but at least they're a bit more usable for zoning now. As far as using b+2,1, b+2,1, b+1,1 xx Ground Burst, I'm finding that as long as the Trance was a juggle hit, I'd have to try pretty hard to get the Ground Burst to whiff. However, off raw Trances, f+1,2 xx Trance, etc., yeah, it's a bit of an annoyance. I'm finding that it's a bit easier to use the mid Ground Burst instead of far, though. Also, because Quan Chi is able to (has to) hit the opponent with b+1,1 at a lower height, the opponent won't travel as far overall, I believe...

 

[Xstatic]

Yeah, the far ground burst is a problem because in a match you want to do the motion quickly. I found that if you delay pressing 1 after the motion instead of at the same time you press forward, the move comes out easier. I tried using ground bursts more often in matches yesterday, but honestly I found it to be more of a distraction than anything. Skull and Trance are just better. It might be decent against Night Wolf, but only against one that just turtles across the screen.

 

[M2Dave]

I will test the new Groud Bursts in detail with a friend soon enough.

I am sorry, guys, but I doubt NRS is giving Quan Chi any more significant buffs in the future. Should they buff the Skeletal Boost and the Sky Drop, they fear he will turn out to be too good. Therefore, they prefer keeping him the way he currently is. That is literally their mentality as far as Quan Chi goes. Also, Paulo Garcia is under the impression that Quan Chi is "good".

Anyway, I am fairly certain REO is using Johnny Cage at ECT3.

 

[BigDaddyKrames]

I tried using ground bursts more often in matches yesterday, but honestly I found it to be more of a distraction than anything. Skull and Trance are just better. It might be decent against Night Wolf, but only against one that just turtles across the screen.

Ground Burst can't be countered with Smoke's Shake (neither can Trance, though >_>), is harder to react to than a Skull Ball (particularly at mid/far ranges), and cannot be ducked. It is also safer on block than Trance, especially at mid-range. Smoke can't even punish a blocked Ground Burst with Teleport Punch. I think it does have some use in zoning, though risk/reward isn't seeming too great, and Skull and Trance are probably better the majority of the time.

Also, unrelated to the new hotfix, but I found corner Trances to be a good opportunity to whiff Trance for a bit of extra meter, unless someone knows a good way to connect dj.1 after a corner Trance while keeping the opponent in the corner.

 

[Xstatic]

I prefer Trance in most cases because the risk/reward for that move, especially at a distance, is worth it.

I figure that this hotfix will be the last to change the current roster for awhile. The new characters will be getting most of the attention now. I don't blame REO for using Johnny Cage for tournaments at all. You got to do what it takes to win. I don't main Quan Chi either; I just find him very fun to use and explore. He's my main sub character, though.

It would have been great if we actually got a useful wake-up move. Are there any other characters that have as bad of a wake-up game as Quan Chi? It's what is keeping him back the most, IMO.

 

[Cat]

Is the hotfix out already? I swear upball is still not punishable.

 

[Xstatic]

The hotfix is out. There are 6 more frames of recovery and 2 more frames of start-up on the upball. The upball was -6 frames before, so you need to punish it with something that is 12 frames or less on start-up.

 

[Cat]

The hotfix is out. There are 6 more frames of recovery and 2 more frames of start-up on the upball. The upball was -6 frames before, so you need to punish it with something that is 12 frames or less on start-up.

So quans rune is safer as well? Is this on xbox? And what punisher do you guys do against a blocked upball? I tried 1,1,2 didn't work. And back 3,1+2 didn't work either.

 

[Zebster]

So quans rune is safer as well? Is this on xbox? And what punisher do you guys do against a blocked upball? I tried 1,1,2 didn't work. And back 3,1+2 didn't work either.

Rune is safer, not completely safe however. The hotfix is out on both systems now.

 

[Xstatic]

Outside of uppercut, Quan Chi's notmals are very slow. I would just uppercut.

 

[BigDaddyKrames]

Never mind. ...Guess I can't delete my post, then?

 

[Albo]

finding it really difficult to get the best out of quan chi than when i tried the week the game came out. i know he's had considerable nerfs and buffs since release but i'm just not comfortable using him as i once was. pretty strange.

 

[Xstatic]

finding it really difficult to get the best out of quan chi than when i tried the week the game came out. i know he's had considerable nerfs and buffs since release but i'm just not comfortable using him as i once was. pretty strange.

Quan Chi takes time because you need to use many tools as well as learning to deal with none. You need to use all his tools for offense, and learning all of those takes time. His zoning is pretty obvious, but you need to learn which match-ups and situations to use his Trance; it's a round changer. His defense and punishing is weak because he doesn't have a good wake-up or a fast long range attack. So, he takes time...

 

[TheCreator316]

In my opinion sky drop should have invincibility frames on startup to make it a viable wakeup option and a way to get out of pressure. Trance should have a faster startup so Quan can punish moves like Kanos upball. Ground blast should be safe on completely safe on block. Skeletal boost should have different inputs and I should be able to do it anytime I want. Skullball is perfectly fine. Also improve some of his normals like make 1,1,3 safer on block if its not to much. But I agree with both m2dave and Reo.

 

[Xstatic]

You can punish upball with uppercut at the very least. Trance is fine the way it is. 113 should only be used if the opponent is blocking high so you can tack on a skullball at the end safely; otherwise, 1 and 11 are amazing for tick throws. 212 is the better block string as a whole. Skeletal boost needs more than just different motions: the move is just garbage in general. Everything else I agree with.

 

[TheCreator316]

Thanks didnt know uppercut was that good of a punisher but Quan needs a move that can punish Cyber Subs divekicks.

 

[Robotic]

The more I think about this, the more I think Quan Chi is a serious headache to NRS. Consider this:

The MK9 gamers can be split into 2 categories (probably more, but humor me): 1. The Casual, and 2: The Die Hard.

Right off the bat, the casual gamer may not even know this site or others like it even exists. They don't know what BnB stands for or what a safe jump means. They go to general video game websites for cheats on which krypt to open and what their respective character's stage fatality is. Insofar as that is the case, Quan Chi's unique move set makes him a VERY good character for these people. One could argue that he could be S-tier for the beginner to slightly serious but still mediocore player. They may never know that En trance removes meter from the other player! Quan Chi's Trance, Runes and Boosts could almost be labeled broken by a casual player who either doesn't do his homework, or doesn't have TIME to do his homework because of other responsibilities (other games, kids, wife, job, you name it). There are millions of players out there who fit this mold. Hell, there are casual players out there who don't even have him because they can't beat Shao Kahn in Story mode!

If you try to fix Quan Chi to make him a tournement viable character ("tournaments? people play this outside of their HOMES?!"), you may have effectively ruined the gaming experience for the great many casual players, as NRS may have turned him into a broken character from a for-fun-let's just-play-MK9-to-pass-the-time perspective.

The Die Hard knows better, but is severely outnumbered. We all just need a second to figure Quan Chi out and discover he's not as great (tier wise)as people think. Then again, casual gamers may not know what tier means or why it's important with respect to fighting games. If NRS listens to the Die-Hards, they break Quan Chi for beginners. If they don't, they leave a bad ass character left to wither on the vine at tournaments. They are essentially screwed no matter what they do, because of the character and moveset that they designed.

Of course, I could be trippin balls.

 

[Xstatic]

Meh, if they cared that much about the casuals, Raiden's teleport would be nerfed up the ass by now. Instead, they just got rid of his jail string. Casuals don't even know what a jail string is, and probably will never notice the frame difference on moves. Most casuals don't even know that Kano's upball and knife have been nerfed. I think you're reading into things a bit much.

Quan Chi is not as bad as everyone thinks. Sure, he gets dry raped by Kung Lao and Cyber Sub-Zero, but a lot of characters have really bad match-ups too. I think they are scared to make moves like trance (which is good the way it is IMO) and skeletal boost (absolute shit) better because they are afraid to make him stupid. I'm sure they look back at the Kano buffs everytime they evaluate a character now. If you've noticed, ever since Kano got his huge buff, most characters got only slight buffs and nerfs. They have been very safe. The ground burst buff was very conservative to the point it is almost useless. At least we have something against Nightwolf now, but it doesn't help that much.

Quan Chi's bad match-ups are bad not because of his terrible wake-up (although, that is a big fault of his), it's the fact that he can't punish things quickly from even a bit of distance. The problem is, how are they going to fix that without making one of his moves overpowered? Fuck if I know.

 

[Robotic]

Meh, if they cared that much about the casuals, Raiden's teleport would be nerfed up the ass by now. Instead, they just got rid of his jail string. Casuals don't even know what a jail string is, and probably will never notice the frame difference on moves. Most casuals don't even know that Kano's upball and knife have been nerfed. I think you're reading into things a bit much.

Quan Chi is not as bad as everyone thinks. Sure, he gets dry raped by Kung Lao and Cyber Sub-Zero, but a lot of characters have really bad match-ups too. I think they are scared to make moves like trance (which is good the way it is IMO) and skeletal boost (absolute shit) better because they are afraid to make him stupid. I'm sure they look back at the Kano buffs everytime they evaluate a character now. If you've noticed, ever since Kano got his huge buff, most characters got only slight buffs and nerfs. They have been very safe. The ground burst buff was very conservative to the point it is almost useless. At least we have something against Nightwolf now, but it doesn't help that much.

Quan Chi's bad match-ups are bad not because of his terrible wake-up (although, that is a big fault of his), it's the fact that he can't punish things quickly from even a bit of distance. The problem is, how are they going to fix that without making one of his moves overpowered? Fuck if I know.

Sounds like a thread in it's own right: how to fix Quan Chi without breaking him to bits.

Anyway, I hear ya. I do analyze, but I think the truth might be somewhere between your statements and mine. Another truth might be, this is as good as Quan Chi is going to get. It's cool, I'll still roll with him.

 

[Xstatic]

Sorry if my reply sounded hostile; it wasn't meant to be. I agree with you to a degree.

You know, I agree with his tier placement. He is in the same boat as many other lower-tiered characters, but I don't think there are any bad characters in this game. There should be more activity here, but I feel people aren't givin QC a chance. I might write a guide to outline some new technology that I have found. Man, it is dead here.

 

[HurlingDervish]

I know where you guys are coming from and I present a different predicament.

Any player that is skilled enough to gain recognition from NRS isn't likely to admit to ANY needed nerfs/buffs, at least publicly, outside of rare game-breaking exploits that kill competition. Whether its ego or just wanting to be that one odd match-up in the mix, we can't say, but its pretty clear that the only people who actually know what could be done, can't say what SHOULD be done to the character without "admitting defeat" in one way or another. Does anybody want to be the guy who came in 2nd place in a tourney, then gets quoted repeatedly calling for a buff/nerf? On the flip side how would people like to be the guy who won with a "shitty" lesser used character?
I can't blame them for making the most out of a situation, but I'd rather them be feeding NRS info, then NRS acquiring it solely on their own

 

[King]

I think I have a couple of ideas that might give Quan Chi the edge he needs.

1) Give EX Sky Drop invincibility and make it safe on block.
2) Make the following Skeletal Boost (SB) changes:

a. Make the normal SB a health regeneration only. EX version will give the damage boost only.
b.Chip damage does not remove the effects of the EX or normal SB. Only a clean hit does.
c. Allow Quan Chi to use SB when opponent is in trance.
d. The bonuses given by SB for both EX and normal are 75% of what they are now. So if Quan gains 20 life back from SB now, make him gain only 15. Same idea with damage.
e. Make the recovery of the normal SB longer when activated during trance so that by the end of the recovery of the SB, you and you're opponent are "even" on frames. i.e. You're opponent recovers from the trance as soon as you recover from the SB.
f. If you get hit (clean hit not chip) while either of the effects of SB are active, you cannot breaker out of the combo even if you have the meter for it.

I know the inclusion of all of these would make Quan godlike, but NRS doesn't have to include them all. I put these ideas out just as food for thought. Now I'll lay out my thinking behind these ideas.

Number 1 is obvious: Quan Chi needs better wake-up options. You would need to spend meter in order to get that safe wake-up however.

Number 2 is a lot more complicated and needs a lot more elaborating. First of all, the effects of SB shouldn't be taken away when Quan takes chip damage; that just entirely defeats the usefulness of the move. The rest of the buffs I have suggested stem from a situation where you have your opponent trapped in the trance move. With these buffs, the following options will become open to you:

1) Finish the combo.
2) Activate SB for a chance to gain some health but no frame advantage.
3) Activate EX SB which will give you additional damage, but at the cost of meter.

The reason that SB was made to recover evenly with the opponent's trance is to not give Quan an easy way of recovering health and not waste meter. In this way, the Quan player will have to either just settle for normal damage, take the risk of getting rushed down while gaining health (but losing some due to chip) or use meter to dish out big damage. The Quan player will also have to put in mind that by using the damage boost he is going to give the opponent more meter by hitting them harder whereas, when he uses the health boost, he will not be giving the opponent meter but he will be opening himself up to further pressure. Each option will come with its advantages and disadvantages. The point will be that SB will actually be useful and will have to be put into Quan Chi's toolbox. The nerfs on the effects of SB are put in order to ensure that the SB isn't too good of a move and isn't completely game-changing - like X-factor in MvC3 if you will. Finally, the threat of using SB and getting caught with your pants down is huge because you will not be able to breaker any combo when hit while the SB's effects are on. This puts another dent into SB and really forces the Quan player to make smart choices.

On another note, this will make Quan players much more wary of their meter usage. Between using EX Sky Drop to escape tight situations, X-rays, combo breakers, and EX SB for a damage boost, Quan players will have to juggle all of these options and decide which method of meter usage is best for them. So in short, Quan will be a meter-relient character with some really good options.

What do you guys think about these suggestions and this scenario I present?

 

[Albo]

well if you manage to land a combo with quan chi and you are good at executing combos, you can get a MINIMUM of 50% with quan chi. the hard part is just trying to land that combo against those advanced players


tom brady explains it a bit better at about 1:29:00 of last weeks show

http://www.justin.tv/s1lent1/b/289012305

 

[Robotic]

snip

I can tell you put a lot of thought into that and some of those are pretty good ideas. Very interesting skeletal boost ideas. Quan chi may be finalized, though. Everything we do now, I'm afraid, is for our own amusement/therapy.

Nonetheless, NRS if you're reading, these are ideas to consider. Let me add one more: Make En Trance like Sektor's En Teleuppercut - to continue a combo. You can scale the damage if you like, gravity the shit out of the opponent, whatever. If you use En trance to BEGIN a combo, regular trance can still be used one more time while in said combo. Toy around with it a bit, NRS! Oh, and PLEASE GIVE HIM A USEFUL WAKEUP ATTACK!!! ahem, sorry.

The chip damage for health boost is a TOUGH one. A good Quan Chi player will just turtle or sky drop away from the madness so the boost can take it's full effect. A chip here and there not stopping the boost might be a little TOO Godlike. Who knows, though.