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Strategy Now That's What I Call An Entrance -- Green Arrow General Discussion Thread

shaowebb

Get your guns on. Sheriff is back.
Switch to electric arrows and see what you can setup off the stun increase is my guess. I've been predicting once he was learned as a matchup and folks learned to block the high low it'd get rough for awhile. Same damned thing happened to my Iron Fist in UMVC3.
 

TimTim

Don't Hate
I agree that it will be harder to land those high low hits after a while Tim, but I am pretty sure you can't react to f2d13 xx high/low ice arrrow mixed up with f2d1 xx high/low ice arrow. Also after using that set up for a while you can start using b2 on wake up in stead. But as you say, this will be easier and easier to defend against for players, so I think you will have to play solid with GA in most cases, and use d1 xx ice arrow as punish or interuption, and mix it up with d1 xx db2 on block so they respect the d1.
You can fuzzy the f2d13.
 

SimSim

Norwegian Lab-work Champion
What exactly do you mean with fuzzy in this situation. I know fuzzy guard from when you do a move that forces standing, and then do a move that will only hit high, but hits the person crouching because the force stand is still in effect. What exactly about the f2d13 vs f2d1 xx low arrow is "fuzzyable"? I don't know the frame data, but I would imagin the 3 will hit some frames before the low arrow will, so are you saying that there is a timing to block high in anticipation of the 3 and just block low after this as an OS of sorts? I still think this will catch people, since you can go high/low with the arrow too:eek:
 

TimTim

Don't Hate
What exactly do you mean with fuzzy in this situation. I know fuzzy guard from when you do a move that forces standing, and then do a move that will only hit high, but hits the person crouching because the force stand is still in effect. What exactly about the f2d13 vs f2d1 xx low arrow is "fuzzyable"? I don't know the frame data, but I would imagin the 3 will hit some frames before the low arrow will, so are you saying that there is a timing to block high in anticipation of the 3 and just block low after this as an OS of sorts? I still think this will catch people, since you can go high/low with the arrow too:eek:
Lol I started in the FGC with MK9 so switching from MK9 to SSF4 and eventually UMVC3 and SfxT the definition of fuzzying changed a lot.
From my SF understanding fuzzy's result in the wrong block animation.
From what I learned in MK9 fuzzy guarding is like quickly shifting between blocks so that you can easily block mixups that aren't very frame tight.
To get the fuzzy guard check out this thread
http://testyourmight.com/threads/green-arrow-labwork.32251/

P.S. - Could you help me with Alisa combos. I can't find the 2013 versions anywhere.
 

Raynex

Intelligence + Speed + Power
First off are the electric arrows faster than the fire arrows? I'm have a feeling but I'm not sure.

I've been using elec much more recently with good results. In the neutral game it seems good on block and on hit for frame traps, and if you anti-air someone with B4 the stun allows you to combo 223~Load Ice for mix-ups afterwards.

Also, hitting with an electric arrow from full screen against zoners allows you to get in for free because of the stun. On top of that, I think the damage is the same as fire.
 

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
Administrator
First off are the electric arrows faster than the fire arrows? I'm have a feeling but I'm not sure.

I've been using elec much more recently with good results. In the neutral game it seems good on block and on hit for frame traps, and if you anti-air someone with B4 the stun allows you to combo 223~Load Ice for mix-ups afterwards.

Also, hitting with an electric arrow from full screen against zoners allows you to get in for free because of the stun. On top of that, I think the damage is the same as fire.
They feel like they are.. That was the first thing I noticed. I ranked them in speed(slowest to fastest): Ice, Fire, Electric

Though I am not certain, and if it is faster it hasn't been to much of my benefit. The properties of it extending kombos as opposed to the fire arrows and it's quantity as opposed to the ice arrows is what I tend to use it for.

The damage is 5% as opposed to Fire Arrows 8%.
 

Raynex

Intelligence + Speed + Power
Ah I see. I appreciate the quick response. Electric seems to be the most useful for anti-air. It's speed + stun means you can snipe opponents with ease, then as they fall slowly you can follow-up with BF+3 at distance or full combos at close range. Landing 113 into electric combos aren't likely to happen, so when I need to land a hit I usually have Ice loaded.

5% you say? That's good to know.
 

Seapeople

This one's for you
Electric arrows aren't faster than any others on startup, but I think they may be the fastest from full screen. They don't give any extra advantage on block. They're +22 on hit compared to regular arrows which are +28...The only real advantage is that low electric arrows are also +22 compared to regular low arrows which are only +10. Overall I think electric arrows are mainly good for closing the distance from full screen like you said. They can be used to extend damage for midscreen combos starting with 113 or f2d13 but that's about it.

I'm glad people are starting to see the problems with Green Arrow's godlike "mix ups". I'd rather not wait a year until we can safely call him low tier lol.
 

TimTim

Don't Hate
I feel like I leveled up my Green Arrow a lot today.
One of my biggest issues is that I don't have my ice arrow loaded as much as I'd like to.
When do you guys load it other than post combo.

Also are there any good players to watch. Other than Chris of course.
 

shaowebb

Get your guns on. Sheriff is back.
Electric arrows aren't faster than any others on startup, but I think they may be the fastest from full screen. They don't give any extra advantage on block. They're +22 on hit compared to regular arrows which are +28...The only real advantage is that low electric arrows are also +22 compared to regular low arrows which are only +10. Overall I think electric arrows are mainly good for closing the distance from full screen like you said. They can be used to extend damage for midscreen combos starting with 113 or f2d13 but that's about it.

I'm glad people are starting to see the problems with Green Arrow's godlike "mix ups". I'd rather not wait a year until we can safely call him low tier lol.
GA is pretty much someone who will work well for players who thrive on controlling space and reading their opponent over simply fishing with stuff. Not a high tier given he only has high lows, but his full screen ability to punish and get in means a good reader will be able to make him a very scary threat. He's not high damage, he's just resets, good punish, and high low pressure.

In other words Chris G chose his main well. Fits his style perfectly.
 

Raynex

Intelligence + Speed + Power
Electric arrows aren't faster than any others on startup, but I think they may be the fastest from full screen. They don't give any extra advantage on block. They're +22 on hit compared to regular arrows which are +28...The only real advantage is that low electric arrows are also +22 compared to regular low arrows which are only +10. Overall I think electric arrows are mainly good for closing the distance from full screen like you said. They can be used to extend damage for midscreen combos starting with 113 or f2d13 but that's about it.

I'm glad people are starting to see the problems with Green Arrow's godlike "mix ups". I'd rather not wait a year until we can safely call him low tier lol.
I should have said Electric was faster while moving, not on start-up, my mistake. +28 is incredible. That pretty much guarantees any string attempt to frame trap, damn.
 

SimSim

Norwegian Lab-work Champion
@MILE_HIGH_CLUB found something interesting: b2 xx ice arrow load is actually around + 7 on hit, which means you can frame trap after loading an ice arrow, which is kind of sick. So you can basically finish a combo with freeze, then do b2 xx ice load and continue pressuring while they are standing:p B2 actually has so much advantage on hit that if you cancel it in to super, it will combo. Might be known stuff, but was interesting to me!
 

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
Administrator
@MILE_HIGH_CLUB found something interesting: b2 xx ice arrow load is actually + 7-8 on hit, which means you can frame trap after loading an ice arrow, which is kind of sick. So you can basically finish a combo with freeze, then do b2 xx ice load and continue pressuring while they are standing:p B2 actually has so much advantage on hit that if you cancel it in to super, it will combo. Might be known stuff, but was interesting to me!
Yeah.. I was messing with that yesterday.... I used to do jump in 2 into F2 but this is much better since you get a freeze arrow.
 
@MILE_HIGH_CLUB found something interesting: b2 xx ice arrow load is actually around + 7 on hit, which means you can frame trap after loading an ice arrow, which is kind of sick. So you can basically finish a combo with freeze, then do b2 xx ice load and continue pressuring while they are standing:p B2 actually has so much advantage on hit that if you cancel it in to super, it will combo. Might be known stuff, but was interesting to me!
How would 111 ice arrow load fair in comparison? I don't know fair tech all that well.
 
@MILE_HIGH_CLUB found something interesting: b2 xx ice arrow load is actually around + 7 on hit, which means you can frame trap after loading an ice arrow, which is kind of sick. So you can basically finish a combo with freeze, then do b2 xx ice load and continue pressuring while they are standing:p B2 actually has so much advantage on hit that if you cancel it in to super, it will combo. Might be known stuff, but was interesting to me!
b2 into overhead diagonal arrow also combos lol
 

SimSim

Norwegian Lab-work Champion
b2 into overhead diagonal arrow also combos lol
Yes, this is pretty much GA's most damaging combostarter in the corner, but this is well known. Also it doesn't connect on small characters like catwoman and hawk girl etc:/
 

SimSim

Norwegian Lab-work Champion
How would 111 ice arrow load fair in comparison? I don't know fair tech all that well.
I believe 111 xx arrow load is about 0 on hit, so not nearly as good as b2 xx arrow load

Edit: LOL b2 xx db4, b2 xx d4, b2 xx db4 etc etc is the new online infinite haha
 

SimSim

Norwegian Lab-work Champion
Good shit to Chris G for playing Green Arrow at Arturo's stream tonight.. I just watched his first match against Dragongod, and it is basically a demonstration of how bad GA is right now. Dragongod would block most ice arrow mixups, and he missed stuff like jump in 2-> 111 because... well it drops for no reason. + Also he dropped the 111 xx super in the corner because... well it magically doesn't connect in the left corner on many chars. Ofc, this isn't caught by the commentators who say "Oh he dropped this" "oh he dropped that", and they refuse to see that it's actually GA that is glitched and not Chris dropping. Also art keeps saying: "They nerfed b23 from +15/20 frames to +4/8 when it's from 15+ to 3+, and they keep saying it isn't a big deal, while it actually was GA's only good way to confirm in to a f2d13 block string.

Chris using GA more will show how people adapt, and hopefully expose GA's glitched combos, but who knows how long it will take before people actually choose to see it and not just say "No GA is a high tier character".

Edit: Just to clarify: When I say "demonstration of how bad GA is right now" I mean that there is a lot of stuff that is bad with him right now, and that needs to be buffed/fixed, not that he is a really bad character. I don't believe GA is low tier, but not above mid tier either.
 

Wasted

Mortal
I've never had 111 magically miss before.

Chris just needs to start changing his decisions in the mixups. It's not GA's fault Dragongod kept making the right choices, it's Chris'.
 
I've never had 111 magically miss before.

Chris just needs to start changing his decisions in the mixups. It's not GA's fault Dragongod kept making the right choices, it's Chris'.
Daaaang.

You heard him, Chris G... Apparently GA is a good character, and has a whole lot of options and mixup potential that you're not aware of yet! Step it up, bro!
 

GodsLonelyman

Kombatant
I've never had 111 magically miss before.

Chris just needs to start changing his decisions in the mixups. It's not GA's fault Dragongod kept making the right choices, it's Chris'.
Chris G is an amazing player and is working with the limited character that is Green Arrow. He is on point with Green Arrows pseudo mixups and overall strategy. The only thing Chris G needs to improve is his corner damage. Chris G doesn;t go for Green Arrows hard hitting corner combos but other than that, he's playing on point.

If you really did play Green Arrow you'd know 111 or 113 is a rarely used string by green Arrow players. The reach on his standing 1 is terrible, and not only that, off of a ji2, the first hit whiffs 9 times out of 10. Either they fix his ji2 or his 111 113 because it is unusable for now unless done naked with out the jumpin, but good luck with that, the reach sucks. His best string is f2d13 and 223 for the untechable knockdown after bnb.