Match-up Discussion Nightwing Matchup Discussion

[Qwark28]

It's not -15 on block, it's -10 if he hits the head and around -5 if he hits the stomach.

its -15 on the head and lower as the divekick hits lower.

 

[DuskAlloy]

So how does everyone feel about the flash matchup, he has good mix ups but I feel we beat him flush in a poke war. Do you think it would be better to stay in escrima or staff?

 

[NightwingDayZero]

So how does everyone feel about the flash matchup, he has good mix ups but I feel we beat him flush in a poke war. Do you think it would be better to stay in escrima or staff?

Staff. D1 beats his overhead starter and most of his pokes.

 

[Deathwish]

ok just finished having a pretty big mirror match nightwing session, things that i want to ask.

1 - is j3 on block punishable? if so by what? 1,1,3? or is it only punishable if they throw out a move after the j3?

2- is b2 punishable by anything -___-

3 - what do you do when one night wing is constantly d1 or d12 poking you? since he's + his would always come out before mine and then i would try to block and dash away but i think i'd always get hit. so im at the mercy of him whenever he gets a jump in and goes d1, d1, d1, or d12, and then he can flip kick or jump over me. is pushblock the only solution? if it is, it basically neutralizes the situation again. so whichever nightwing gets the first jump in into d1 will always win out?

4 - what do you do against staff d1, d1, d1 when you're in escrima stance? push block and try to winding zone him?

mental note*

when in escrima stance and you push block in the corner against a nightwing that has staff and he thinks you're going to jump to do wingdings, so he jumps to j2 you, dash under.

and a lot of ppl discourage wakeup escrima fury, but omg, sometimes you have to (if a nightwing with a staff has you in the corner and is really close, or if you really are getting ripped apart by high lows, especially in the corner). yes you can push block but since he has the same tools as you you're resetting the situation where both are going to start a wingding war and he has more meter than you. ngl it was tough.

i lost like 20+ times imagine and won like 3 or 4. I think the person who got the first hit and could capitalize on the oki game correctly had the advantage obviously lol. basically he was much more aggressive than me, i wanted to block and punish and i was really having a hard time. n for the life of me i suck at dealing with d1, d1, crossup j2 or j3, d1, etc. so d1 is +8? and d1,2 is +4 finally?

 

[Saitsu]

ok just finished having a pretty big mirror match nightwing session, things that i want to ask.

1 - is j3 on block punishable? if so by what? 1,1,3? or is it only punishable if they throw out a move after the j3?

2- is b2 punishable by anything -___-

3 - what do you do when one night wing is constantly d1 or d12 poking you? since he's + his would always come out before mine and then i would try to block and dash away but i think i'd always get hit. so im at the mercy of him whenever he gets a jump in and goes d1, d1, d1, or d12, and then he can flip kick or jump over me. is pushblock the only solution? if it is, it basically neutralizes the situation again. so whichever nightwing gets the first jump in into d1 will always win out?

4 - what do you do against staff d1, d1, d1 when you're in escrima stance? push block and try to winding zone him?

mental note*

when in escrima stance and you push block in the corner against a nightwing that has staff and he thinks you're going to jump to do wingdings, so he jumps to j2 you, dash under.

and a lot of ppl discourage wakeup escrima fury, but omg, sometimes you have to (if a nightwing with a staff has you in the corner and is really close, or if you really are getting ripped apart by high lows, especially in the corner). yes you can push block but since he has the same tools as you you're resetting the situation where both are going to start a wingding war and he has more meter than you. ngl it was tough.

i lost like 20+ times imagine and won like 3 or 4. I think the person who got the first hit and could capitalize on the oki game correctly had the advantage obviously lol. basically he was much more aggressive than me, i wanted to block and punish and i was really having a hard time. n for the life of me i suck at dealing with d1, d1, crossup j2 or j3, d1, etc. so d1 is +8? and d1,2 is +4 finally?

1. No.

2. No, at least, not by Nightwing.

3. Backdash out or pushblock.

4. Same deal.

You're better off just blocking and finding ways out because the penalty for a Wakeup Fury that doesn't hit is a ton of pain.

A Nightwing mirror will be won by the most proactive player.

 

[NightwingDayZero]

Someone in this thread mentioned that Flip Kick beats out most wake up attacks. I never really had troubles with wake up attacks until today. I dealt with a Joker who kept waking up with his flower squirt bs. Huge priority. Very safe. Flip Kick will beat it out.

Black Adam's electric storm or whatever he does when he pounds the ground. Do we have to respect this? Can it be beaten on wakeup? Or just baited?

 

[AssassiN]

Deathwish
If Nightwing does D1 in Escrima, you can D1 him back. He is not at enough advantage to ensure another D1, Nightwing has to block or backdash. It's another story with D12 though, after blocking 2 D12's, you are free. You can still backdash out of D12 pressure.

NightwingDayZero
That worked for you against Joker?
When I did that, it hit me cause it has a backwards hitbox. That seriously took the piss out of me, because you have to use meter to punish it from what I've experienced.

Against Black Adam you have to respect that attack. Although I think NJ2 might be the solution to that attack.
You'll find that Flipkick is pretty good against wake-up attacks, only attacks that launch people forward it will whiff on(Harley's Tantrum Stance, some of Flash attacks, ...). It's a good thing to use when in Staff Stance, just switch quickly and input Flipkick.

 

[Deathwish]

i'll take your word for it AssassiN cuz i kept mashing on that D1 in one game out of a bit of frustration n idk i can't recall but i just kept getting hit. so d12 > d1 in terms of frame advantage? i read some where that supposedly d12 is +4 on block instead of the in game info which says it's +8 (right?)

 

[AssassiN]

i'll take your word for it AssassiN cuz i kept mashing on that D1 in one game out of a bit of frustration n idk i can't recall but i just kept getting hit. so d12 > d1 in terms of frame advantage? i read some where that supposedly d12 is +4 on block instead of the in game info which says it's +8 (right?)

Correct.
D1 is only around +1 on block while D12 is +4 on block.

 

[NightwingDayZero]

Correct.
D1 is only around +1 on block while D12 is +4 on block.

How many frames is the first hit of Escrima d12? I find its always getting out mashed.

 

[AssassiN]

How many frames is the first hit of Escrima d12? I find its always getting out mashed.

Do you mean start-up of D1?
It's 9 frames.

 

[NightwingDayZero]

Do you mean start-up of D1?
It's 9 frames.

This is me, cringing. 9 frames is ridiculous startup.

Also, yes - I saw Joker's wake up attack actually come out. Maybe I spaced it just right? I'll put it in the lab to be sure, but he stopped doing it after I beat it outright twice.

 

[7r17r1]

Escrima d1 is a bit slow, but since the d12 string is so powerful, it needs this weakness

Seriously, d12 is + on block, can be use for a full combo punish, has a very good range, and is fucking +29 on hit
29 !
You can dash in and you are still at +7 or +8 lol

 

[Red Reaper]

ok just finished having a pretty big mirror match nightwing session, things that i want to ask.

1 - is j3 on block punishable? if so by what? 1,1,3? or is it only punishable if they throw out a move after the j3?

2- is b2 punishable by anything -___-

3 - what do you do when one night wing is constantly d1 or d12 poking you? since he's + his would always come out before mine and then i would try to block and dash away but i think i'd always get hit. so im at the mercy of him whenever he gets a jump in and goes d1, d1, d1, or d12, and then he can flip kick or jump over me. is pushblock the only solution? if it is, it basically neutralizes the situation again. so whichever nightwing gets the first jump in into d1 will always win out?

4 - what do you do against staff d1, d1, d1 when you're in escrima stance? push block and try to winding zone him?

1. You are minus after J3 that's why it gets beat by other moves.

2. Only by Superman's Super!

3. It has pushback, after D12 he kan do it again but if he does you're then out of range from the next one. If you're worried, backdash. If you want to be safer, push block. Nightwing's jump ins in Escrima are minus so the Nightwing blocking the jump in kan get his D1 first.

4. Backdash.. Once he respects the back dash option he'll be forced to start using his other tools if he wants to maintain pressure.

 

[Deleted member 5032]

Any insight on the Green Lantern MU? Nightwing kicks Deathstroke's ass pretty hard, so I'm trying to find a good secondary to cover the MU, and at least on paper Green Lantern seems to be able to handle NW really well.

 

[Saitsu]

Any insight on the Green Lantern MU? Nightwing kicks Deathstroke's ass pretty hard, so I'm trying to find a good secondary to cover the MU, and at least on paper Green Lantern seems to be able to handle NW really well.

Honestly, I can see the matchup as 5-5. Maybe 5.5 in Hal's favor at max. I need more time to grind out the MU however to truly make a decision.

 

[Deleted member 5032]

Honestly, I can see the matchup as 5-5. Maybe 5.5 in Hal's favor at max. I need more time to grind out the MU however to truly make a decision.

I'm just curious how NW can even try to get in. Air Rockets negate NW's ground attacks (Spark and Blast), Minigun pushes back, and you can't really jump against GL.

 

[SilverKeyMan]

Any insight on the Green Lantern MU? Nightwing kicks Deathstroke's ass pretty hard, so I'm trying to find a good secondary to cover the MU, and at least on paper Green Lantern seems to be able to handle NW really well.

Hawkgirl works wonders against Nightwing.

Personally, I think Superman has an edge as well, but that may be just my lack of ability showing through. He's easy to pick up as a secondary, however.

 

[Saitsu]

I'm just curious how NW can even try to get in. Air Rockets negate NW's ground attacks (Spark and Blast), Minigun pushes back, and you can't really jump against GL.

Just patience. NW can't use Staff at far range, so he'll settle for blocking Rockets and taking a quick dash in, or trying to avoid them while in Escrima.

Minigun pushes back but not at a far enough distance. NW only needs one dash at that distance to be in while in Escrima. At that point it becomes a test of wills, one dictated by Hal. A good Lift will wreck NW's day. A bad one will kill Hal.

Hal will have to make mistakes to lose, but unlike say the Hawkgirl/NW matchup, the nature of the match will cause Hal to do so by default.

It's an interesting matchup to watch and play to me. Personally though, if you're looking for a counter pick against NW, I don't think Hal slants it far enough in your favor.

 

[Deleted member 5032]

Just patience. NW can't use Staff at far range, so he'll settle for blocking Rockets and taking a quick dash in, or trying to avoid them while in Escrima.

Minigun pushes back but not at a far enough distance. NW only needs one dash at that distance to be in while in Escrima. At that point it becomes a test of wills, one dictated by Hal. A good Lift will wreck NW's day. A bad one will kill Hal.

Hal will have to make mistakes to lose, but unlike say the Hawkgirl/NW matchup, the nature of the match will cause Hal to do so by default.

It's an interesting matchup to watch and play to me. Personally though, if you're looking for a counter pick against NW, I don't think Hal slants it far enough in your favor.

So you think Hawkgirl is NW's worst MU? Any particular reasons?

 

[Saitsu]

So you think Hawkgirl is NW's worst MU? Any particular reasons?

Her trait alone negates pretty much all of Nightwing's offense. She doesn't have to take true risks in order to screw with him. She wrecks him when he's cornered. Her air normals do a good job beating his. And of course, NW's Anti-airs being subpar doesn't help when dealing with a very air-based character.

It's not unbeatable but really, the only reason Hawkgirl should lose a match is if she fucks up. But Nightwing's offense is explosive and oppressive enough to not make it any worse than 7-3 because that ONE mistake Hawkgirl makes could be all he needs.

Cyborg could potentially be as bad but I have ZERO MU experience against him so that's all theory.

 

[NightwingDayZero]

Honestly, I can see the matchup as 5-5. Maybe 5.5 in Hal's favor at max. I need more time to grind out the MU however to truly make a decision.

I spend most of the matchup trying to get in his face waiting for him to whiff Lanterns Might.

 

[NightwingDayZero]

Cyborg could potentially be as bad but I have ZERO MU experience against him so that's all theory.

A good Cyborg is just as tough - if not tougher.

 

[Tenryuga]

How do you guys go about blowing up Batman? I get too eager to give him the shaft so most of my stuff gets parried.

 

[NightwingDayZero]

How do you guys go about blowing up Batman? I get too eager to give him the shaft so most of my stuff gets parried.

Throws, raw staff db2, ji2 a lot, get in his face, make him guess. Punish him for using parry and he'll cut the crap.