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When can we start discussing tiers?

Juggs

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
It's kinda funny me of all people is making this thread. I hate people who focus so much on tier lists and MU numbers because they don't matter as much as people think they do. Obviously knowing the match-up is important, but the numbers do more harm than good.

But talking about tier placement early is actually a good thing to me. I think tier lists really only have impact early on, because tier lists in general are really designed to help newer players see which characters are good and base who they use off of them. Tier lists later on really only matter to new players wanting to get into the game, since everyone who has been playing will know who the good and bad characters are. I think this mindset of "it's too early to talk tiers" is just a copout for people who haven't played the game that much and don't really want to participate in the conversation. Or they're afraid people will misplace some characters since it is so early so it won't be very accurate.

Well since people are afraid of lists and MU numbers, can we just say we think the good characters and bad characters are? Is that crossing the imaginary line, or are we safe? I think the people who have good experience and can discuss it rationally and reasonably should. Those who can't, well, I'll just delete your post #hitlermode

Before I even hear the responses, I'm gonna go ahead and say who I think are good, bad, and neutral. I'll give a reason why later, about to spend some time with my Mom for Mothers Day. By bad I don't mean they can't win or they're bad characters, just bad in relation to the other characters.

The Good: Superman, Aquaman, Batman, Doomsday, Black Adam, Cyborg, Green Lantern, Deathstroke, Nightwing, Grundy, Green Arrow, Wonder Woman, Killer Frost.

The Bad: Joker, Lex (yeah I said Lex), Bane, Lobo

The Neutral: Ares, Catwoman, Sinestro, Harley, Flash, Shazam, Raven, Hawkgirl

Above list has been edited

Inb4 the salt.

I do want discussions about this. This is just my opinion and some of these characters I admittedly haven't played someone who uses them well. This isn't a fact or any kind of law, just my 1 month opinion. Feel free to blow me up and tell me why you think I'm wrong.
 
Flipitaru

Flipitaru

I'm living at your death
I said this before in another thread and I'll say it here too. Tiers are based on match ups and not entirely on how good a character is. People saying Superman and Aquaman are OP and that they are the best characters is redundant. Just last night, I saw that Black Adam is a bad matchup for Superman. Plus, REO lost to a doomsday using Superman (even though it's not his main) It really does take some time for tiers to be created because we need everyone to come to an agreement on which character loses to who. Plus, we need to wait until all the DLC characters come out.

tl;dr After EVO would be a good time to make the first tier list.

Oh and I would say WW is neutral.
 
HGTV Soapboxfan

HGTV Soapboxfan

"Always a Pleasure"
Flipitaru said:
I said this before in another thread and I'll say it here too. Tiers are based on match ups and not entirely on how good a character is. People saying Superman and Aquaman are OP and that they are the best characters is redundant. Just last night, I saw that Black Adam is a bad matchup for Superman. Plus, REO lost to a doomsday using Superman (even though it's not his main) It really does take some time for tiers to be created because we need everyone to come to an agreement on which character loses to who. Plus, we need to wait until all the DLC characters come out.

tl;dr After EVO would be a good time to make the first tier list.

Oh and I would say WW is neutral.
Click to expand...
Even hough this goes against the whole point of your post, WW is definetly good.
 
M2Dave

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Juggs said:
The Bad: Hawk Girl, Joker, Lex (yeah I said Lex), Bane, Lobo
Click to expand...
Some claim that Hawk Girl is not too bad. The ability to stay in the air and run away gives certain characters with poor aerial control lots of problems.

Lex seems very disappointing, indeed. He is the slowest character movement wise. Is he supposed to be good at zoning, set ups, or both? I doubt even NRS knows. And why does his standard fireball do 3% of damage on hit? Cyborg has a similar fireball that does 8% of damage, can be done in the air, and can be meter burned. I want to represent the bald head, but this characters appears to be going nowhere.
 
DJ L Toro

DJ L Toro

Champion
... i hate you
I mean come on, when i posted what i did it actually was too early, everyone was saying sinestro was ass, batman was top, superman was OK, noone knew about cyborg yet (other than the testers), and people were listing catwoman in broken tier (i mean they still are, but more than now). So then you close it and let KT smith keep his "tier list" which is really just his impressions of the entire cast after having played like 2 matchups.
Ok fine, so the game is a month old and people probably know what's going on a little better now, but even so, this is no less than a spit in my face from you Juggs. I used to be the biggest advocate for "it's not the mods" but fuck that, it's at least some of the mods that made this place a shithole, and this hypocritical illuminati bullshit is a prime example. peace out
 
Cage Redfield

Cage Redfield

Fight!
Well, SRK handled it pretty well when it came to UMvC3 imo. They just discussed the tiers throughout the games life, talking about results and how good X character really is. IIRC, whole pages were spent breaking down characters as an assist and as an on-point character, as well as their benefits in X-Factor. This game doesn't have that stuff, but I can see maybe talking about X vs Y? Like how good does Nightwing fare against Black Adam, or Hawkgirl vs Batman n stuffs. It'd probably help out the character specific sub-forums too, for the matchup threads, since those threads are usually the most dead in the entire section.

As for who I think was wrongly placed in OP, Lobo and Sinestro definitely. Lobo is one of the few characters with a great anti-air normal, meaty command grab mixups are strong as hell and actually better than Shazam's since you can't avoid them by crouching, his dash and Hook Charge are amazing and he's really good in the mid-screen game. Lobo in the neutral area for sure.

Sinestro is dangerous as hell. Can you tell me about a zoner that can do 40+% from full-screen, literally just staying in place and doing specials n shit? Shackles into Down 1 reset is ridiculous, and he can get really good damage from an air-to-air ax special thingy. He's also said to have a bug in his Arachnid Uppercut special move, as it's supposed to hit mid instead of high. So when that's fixed, be prepared to get hit with unblockable combos starting from MB Arachnid into trait into whatever. Definitely one of the characters in the Good area imo.
 
Primiera

Primiera

Wonderful Woman
IMO:

Ares to good.
Hawkgirl to good.
Harley to bad.

Then it'd look pretty good, though I think if you're gonna get something going I think you'd probably want more specific categories, like:

Very good
Good
Neutral
Bad
Kano
 
Flipitaru

Flipitaru

I'm living at your death
HGTV Soapboxfan said:
Even hough this goes against the whole point of your post, WW is definetly good.
Click to expand...
I don't know man. I mean, this discussion is completely irrelevant to the main topic of the thread, but I've been playing WW since day 1 and she a lot of tough match ups. She does a lot of damage and is good when the opponent is in the corner, but getting in with her is hard. Plus, she gets out zoned pretty bad.
 
cR WoundCowboy

cR WoundCowboy

WoundCowbae <3
It's never too early to start discussing tiers. I am not sure why people are so hesitant and afraid; we have to start somewhere. As for the actual tiers, I would say that the top characters are Superman, Batman, and Frost. Sinestro is really good, but probably not top. Lex is a solid character but I just don't think that his dirt can compare to other characters.
 
Juggs

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
The main reason I put Hawgirl with "the bad" is because I have not played a single decent Hawkgirl on XBL. The opinion on her for me is based on what I've heard. So if you guys say she's mid, I believe you.

DJ L Toro said:
... i hate you
I mean come on, when i posted what i did it actually was too early, everyone was saying sinestro was ass, batman was top, superman was OK, noone knew about cyborg yet (other than the testers), and people were listing catwoman in broken tier (i mean they still are, but more than now). So then you close it and let KT smith keep his "tier list" which is really just his impressions of the entire cast after having played like 2 matchups.
Ok fine, so the game is a month old and people probably know what's going on a little better now, but even so, this is no less than a spit in my face from you Juggs. I used to be the biggest advocate for "it's not the mods" but fuck that, it's at least some of the mods that made this place a shithole, and this hypocritical illuminati bullshit is a prime example. peace out
Click to expand...
KT Smith's thread had a lot of content and was more of a tier chart based on tools than a tier list thread. Your thread just said everyone was the same tier, that really didn't deserve a thread, and the statement was pretty much saying not to discuss tiers at that point. You could have just said that in a status update or something. I don't understand what the big deal is, but if you feel I've been unfair then I apologize.
 
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