Character Powers: An Injustice in Balance

[Pterodactyl]

I think the way they should have did Joker's trait was to make it so that you get the full effect off of one counter and if you get hit three times(the Ha's) you go back to normal and you have a trait cooldown time(though you can still parry, just no buff).


The mobility buff is already pretty "meh" so having it for three hits would make it useful but not amazing.




As someone who uses Cyborg a lot I have to say his trait is useless.

It should have a start-up about the same length(maybe more) than DeathStrokes trait and instantly heal 10% if not interrupted. That way you cant just throw it out, but you can still use it if you manage to keep the opponent at by and they aren't quick about punishing you(like DS). 10% is enough for the risk/reward IMO.




The point is, I agree with what you said.

 

[GodsLonelyman]

As a Batman player I completely agree with this. All his best set ups happen with 3 bats anyway. This would really make people play more strategically because they can't afford to just throw bats away and have another immediately available. Imo only let him call 3 bats and give it a 6-7 second cooldown.

On Green Arrow, the damage from his arrows seriously needs to be looked at. Some projectiles are doing big damage while these things do 0.1% on block and 1% on hit. If his rushdown was ridiculous I might understand this, but there are several characters who do just as good or better up close. Imo arrows should be doing 1% on block and 3% on hit.

Electric arrows also have a weird design at the moment. These currently give less advantage on hit than regular arrows and the same advantage on block. They're supposed to "stun" the other player, so I think they should give a safe jump on hit and give low electric arrows a little more block advantage.

I like green arrow but am finding issues with him the more I play him. For starters, The loading of arrows. Smart players will always punish you with a projectile while you're loading an arrow. When you're in the loading animation, you're free to punishment. The only safe way to load arrows is after a combo. Thats becoming a little offputing for me, especially against deathstroke and long range zoners. Sometimes I want to load up a fire arrow to slow down their zoning but get punished while loading. So I'm forced to approach carefully while eating major chip. Trading with regular arrows won't do much since they only do one percent damage and don't cause any stun or knockdown.

Another issue I have with the character are his strings. The only string that has range is his f2d13. Against deathstroke for example, you can't punish the sword flip on block with 113 because the first hit whiffs. Of a ji2 on hit, 113 whiffs too. You also can't punish sword flip with 223. Your only option is f2d13, or b23 but with a b23 midscreen you wont get any decent damage. Basically, Green arrow has the t rex sektor syndrome excluding his f2d13. Another thing some people are starting to learn is that you can interrupt green arrows d1-low arrow. When he d1's and you block if he tries to shoot a low arrow to be plus on block you can hit him with a d1 before he shoots his arrow. These are just minor pet peeves but my major one is the loading of the arrows. I'm pretty sure they're balanced or whatever but in certain matchups loading naked arrows gets you punished hard.

 

[Seapeople]

I like green arrow but am finding issues with him the more I play him. For starters, The loading of arrows. Smart players will always punish you with a projectile while you're loading an arrow. When you're in the loading animation, you're free to punishment. The only safe way to load arrows is after a combo. Thats becoming a little offputing for me, especially against deathstroke and long range zoners. Sometimes I want to load up a fire arrow to slow down their zoning but get punished while loading. So I'm forced to approach carefully while eating major chip. Trading with regular arrows won't do much since they only do one percent damage and don't cause any stun or knockdown.

Another issue I have with the character are his strings. The only string that has range is his f2d13. Against deathstroke for example, you can't punish the sword flip on block with 113 because the first hit whiffs. Of a ji2 on hit, 113 whiffs too. You also can't punish sword flip with 223. Your only option is f2d13, or b23 but with a b23 midscreen you wont get any decent damage. Basically, Green arrow has the t rex sektor syndrome excluding his f2d13. Another thing some people are starting to learn is that you can interrupt green arrows d1-low arrow. When he d1's and you block if he tries to shoot a low arrow to be plus on block you can hit him with a d1 before he shoots his arrow. These are just minor pet peeves but my major one is the loading of the arrows. I'm pretty sure they're balanced or whatever but in certain matchups loading naked arrows gets you punished hard.

I think his pressure & footsies have a sort of high learning curve. I'm still pretty terrible with him tbh, but I think he can be effective with practice. I agree about loading arrows, it would be nice if they could load just slightly faster.

Another thing I'd like to see that won't happen is being able to start shooting an arrow while in the air. This would help his counterzoning a ton because he could jump over a lot of projectiles and keep the other person in check with an overhead arrow on his way down. And if you think about it shouldn't the best archer in the world be able to pull out an arrow while he's jumping?

 

[GodsLonelyman]

I think his pressure & footsies have a sort of high learning curve. I'm still pretty terrible with him tbh, but I think he can be effective with practice. I agree about loading arrows, it would be nice if they could load just slightly faster.

Another thing I'd like to see that won't happen is being able to start shooting an arrow while in the air. This would help his counterzoning a ton because he could jump over a lot of projectiles and keep the other person in check with an overhead arrow on his way down. And if you think about it shouldn't the best archer in the world be able to pull out an arrow while he's jumping?

That would be cool about shooting an arrow while airborne. As it is now you have to have it pre loaded and his jump arch changes, which isn't a bad thing. If his arrows loaded faster, his combos would go up in damage a bit since you'll have time to load an arrow while comboing. If that would happen they'd have to make sure you cannot double freeze your opponent, that would be broken.

 

[Seapeople]

That would be cool about shooting an arrow while airborne. As it is now you have to have it pre loaded and his jump arch changes, which isn't a bad thing. If his arrows loaded faster, his combos would go up in damage a bit since you'll have time to load an arrow while comboing. If that would happen they'd have to make sure you cannot double freeze your opponent, that would be broken.

That can actually be done already, the second freeze knocks the opponent down instead of refreezing

 

[Eddy Wang]

Green Arrow needs less recovery every time he cook an arrow, he doesn't has any other way in besides jump in or Ice Arrow, shit damage without meter, hardly use his trait to extend his combos. How the hell will i use an ice arrow between combos, it if i'm forced to use Ice Arrow to start my combos? Either, 2 ice arrows or less recovery arrow cook to be able to activate during bounce cancels or single B3 or F3 usage to extend his combos. 1% Damage Arrow on hit, seriously WTF is this? at least skarlet daggers deal 3% damage on hit besides being no chip on block, this is even worst.

 

[GodsLonelyman]

That can actually be done already, the second freeze knocks the opponent down instead of refreezing

Yea thats right. Just researched and I think the setup for that is Freeze arrow, B3, Dash, DB1, D2-DB4, 22-Freeze arrow, correct?

Green Arrow needs less recovery every time he cook an arrow, he doesn't has any other way in besides jump in or Ice Arrow, shit damage without meter, hardly use his trait to extend his combos. How the hell will i use an ice arrow between combos, it if i'm forced to use Ice Arrow to start my combos? Either, 2 ice arrows or less recovery arrow cook to be able to activate during bounce cancels or single B3 or F3 usage to extend his combos. 1% Damage Arrow on hit, seriously WTF is this? at least skarlet daggers deal 3% damage on hit besides being no chip on block, this is even worst.

2 ice arrows really wouldn't change combo potential much since you wont be able to freeze twice, however, that would solve having to end a combo with reloading another ice arrow for the next setup and let us to do the extra damage instead of ending combos with an arrow load. As of now I don't go for damage, I go for an Ice arrow load after a combo just to have it ready for the next setup. His regular arrows as they are now are useless for zoning due to the non existant damage they cause. All I use them for is during block strings to get frame advantage. The main issue with his trait I think is the arrow loading time. During this animation you're free to punishment, and heavy zoners will abuse this fact and won't let you load for free, so in certain matchups you'll find yourself being outzoned and never using any arrows but the freeze arrow and only loading after combos or when the opponent is resting on the laurels. I seriously believe speeding up the arrow load would help him alot.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Yea thats right. Just researched and I think the setup for that is Freeze arrow, B3, Dash, DB1, D2-DB4, 22-Freeze arrow, correct?


2 ice arrows really wouldn't change combo potential much since you wont be able to freeze twice, however, that would solve having to end a combo with reloading another ice arrow for the next setup and let us to do the extra damage instead of ending combos with an arrow load. As of now I don't go for damage, I go for an Ice arrow load after a combo just to have it ready for the next setup. His regular arrows as they are now are useless for zoning due to the non existant damage they cause. All I use them for is during block strings to get frame advantage. The main issue with his trait I think is the arrow loading time. During this animation you're free to punishment, and heavy zoners will abuse this fact and won't let you load for free, so in certain matchups you'll find yourself being outzoned and never using any arrows but the freeze arrow and only loading after combos or when the opponent is resting on the laurels. I seriously believe speeding up the arrow load would help him alot.

If it would give me time to load an explosive arrow to shoot down in the end of a combo that would be fine by me

 

[GodsLonelyman]

If it would give me time to load an explosive arrow to shoot down in the end of a combo that would be fine by me

If you think about it this buff we're suggesting (speeding up arrow loading time) is fair and balanced. His combo potential would be slightly better than it is now and we would be able to extend combos a bit more, the only difference in how he would be played is that you won't need to have a specific arrow pre loaded when you want to do whatever it is you want to do. Since loading an arrow is so risky as it is, we are pretty much forced to load after a combo and if we happen to start getting zoned, we are forced to inch our way in since loading into a more appropriate zoning arrow (fire) gets us punished to death.

 

[Eddy Wang]

If you think about it this buff we're suggesting (speeding up arrow loading time) is fair and balanced. His combo potential would be slightly better than it is now and we would be able to extend combos a bit more, the only difference in how he would be played is that you won't need to have a specific arrow pre loaded when you want to do whatever it is you want to do. Since loading an arrow is so risky as it is, we are pretty much forced to load after a combo and if we happen to start getting zoned, we are forced to inch our way in since loading into a more appropriate zoning arrow (fire) gets us punished to death.

Indeed it does, there is no arguing that he definitely needs less recovery when he loads any of his arrows.
And also regular arrow should do more damage

 

[Owerbart]

I do agree with you. Some characters dont even need their trait, while others need a small reworking.

I main raven atm and i find her trait broken... Get a full screen lift that is only - 6. Hella start up though. A good teleport and one of the only chars with one.

Her pillar are nuts man. Can hit you any where on screen. 8% hit and 2% on chip. Can mb for a combo a well.

When her trait is close to running out, you can land a hit and do long ass combo, so long by the time you are done trait is back up. The opponent back full screen, pop trait and go back to spamming pillars. Oh pillars, only takes 5-6 to make 1 bar.

I literally just use raven to keep people away and land a push so i can use trait on their knockdowns.

B23 - demon stance is a nice way to get it more safer. Overall I wouldn't find it broken. IMO most of the traits are compensated by other stuff in the game. For example, the way she (awfully) interacts with objects. Raven's hidden potential resides inside her demon stance options.

Grundy's trait is awesome and super fun, and the bonuses are obligatory in some MUs

On the other side, although I don't play them, my views are:
Bane shouldn't have that much of punish after venom expires
Harley's is shit
Cyborg's looks shit but as explained, with that long range infinite it's trivial.
Hawkgirl's is cute
More cooldown on Clark Kent and Aquaman
Joker's needs to be completely redesigned
I know zero about Shazam's trait in actual fights, but I wouldn't be surprised if they buff it.
Fuck Batman's bats

 

[Juggs]

Ares' trait should have less cool down to use it again. Either that, or have them not disappear when he gets hit. If neither, a damage boost, 20-30%.

 

[16 Bit]

Ares' trait should have less cool down to use it again. Either that, or have them not disappear when he gets hit. If neither, a damage boost, 20-30%.

no.

 

[Juggs]

no.

If you guys didn't nerf him so much pre-release maybe he wouldn't need buffs. But right now he does, especially since he's already getting nerfed again.

Ares is getting the Kano treatment, except worse because he was nerfed before he even had a chance.

 

[Big Pampering]

batman needing all 3 bats to use his trait is overdoing it, since it is like more than 50% of his offense, its like taking reptile's forceballs away. anyone asking for this to happen just doesnt care batman gets raped by the nerfbat. the only fair nerf would be to give like 1 sec more recovery for each bat to come back. Also batman already has weaknesses people can exploit.

 

[16 Bit]

If you guys didn't nerf him so much pre-release maybe he wouldn't need buffs. But right now he does, especially since he's already getting nerfed again.

Ares is getting the Kano treatment, except worse because he was nerfed before he even had a chance.

You don't even know what you're talking about.

There's someone at NRS that's played Ares seriously since before you even knew he was in the game. He's told the Ares community the character is good and is still good after this horrible Kano nerf. But whatever, let's listen to Juggs.

 

[Juggs]

But whatever, let's listen to Juggs.

At least you've come to your senses.

 

[16 Bit]

I like how Kano is the gold standard for characters nerfed into oblivion. Every community for a good character is constantly screaming their guy is the next Kano. My god Ares is losing a ridiculous reset he's the new KANO.

We need to have Sheevas. Meaning characters so low tier that even giving them buffs every patch wouldn't help. Hawkgirl is the new Sheeva!!!

 

[Ronald_A_Knox]

Bane is so bad. I have no idea why there was so much arguing on that his trait is bad, cuz it is friggin bad. Only thing he can do with that armor is charge in like a bull and get the appropriate matador treatment from his opponent. Come to think of it, is it the trait that's a problem or that he has no other way to capitalise on it other than his predictable parryable charge? So far the only way i see Bane is a sign "Just play Grundy".

But as a Harley Quinn player, i confirm that her trait is downright useless. You cannot do it safely anywhere. Even at fullscreen, the only thing that'll happen is whatever you were keeping at fullscreen will use that time get in and wreck you(same problem with Deathstroke's trait, ironically enough). She needs just enough time for using it after she makes, like, a hard knockdown.

 

[DamagePoints]

What you guys don't understand is batman has shit ass range on his normals and can be poked out of alot of his strings. His trait should stay the same. Completely disagree with this. His battersrangs don't have fast start up so he can't zone with them either. He doesn't have a ex dash like cat woman to get in. Bats needs his trait. Don't think he's op at all. I'm seeing more black Adams and supermans all day right now. Every character has something that someone will consider OP.

 

[DamagePoints]

I also think it's too early in this games life to be making huge changes to any characters. I'd rather them buff the weaker characters then nerf the ones that are fine. Until something proves broken or you see the same character winning every tournament I say leads this alone.

 

[Juggs]

I like how Kano is the gold standard for characters nerfed into oblivion. Every community for a good character is constantly screaming their guy is the next Kano. My god Ares is losing a ridiculous reset he's the new KANO.

We need to have Sheevas. Meaning characters so low tier that even giving them buffs every patch wouldn't help. Hawkgirl is the new Sheeva!!!

I actually don't care about the b23 nerf in itself, I just don't think it needed to be nerfed or even mentioned before so many other things. It feels like it's so much less important especially since it's beatable. Besides, he can still do his reset off of tech rolls and he has other knock downs in combos he can do that I've been working on, so the reset itself will always be around, just not as easy to do.

You think I'm automatically downplaying when I say anything negative about Ares. I dunno why, maybe Slips beats you really bad with him or something, who knows. But once you realize Ares' weaknesses, you can abuse them all day with very little risk. It's why I was fine with him having a "hard to escape" reset, because otherwise he's not much of a threat up close since everything but d1 is really slow. But I'm also fine with it getting nerfed, as long as other characters who deserve it more get nerfed as well. He does give some characters problems. As far as I know, he does well against Catwoman, GL, KF, DS, Raven, Grundy, Lex, etc. And people who use those characters may say "hey, Ares is really good", when it's really just that he's good in those certain MU's.

But what do I know? I wasn't a tester, wasn't a high level MK9 player, so my input doesn't count as much. I haven't played the game as much as you guys have, I understand that. But it honestly doesn't take that long to understand your characters relative position in regards to the rest of the cast, based on their tools alone.

 

[Eddy Wang]

I think no Character should be nerfed yet, instead there is indeed characters who could use a bit of buff, because as they're now is completely bull crap.

I'm sorry but i don't see how Flash, is viable, just one of the examples.

 

[RYX]

I think no Character should be nerfed yet, instead there is indeed characters who could use a bit of buff, because as they're now is completely bull crap.

I'm sorry but i don't see how Flash, is viable, just one of the examples.

How about being a giant fuck you to every projectile in the game

That's gotta give him some brownie points.

 

[Jeffreys]

How about being a giant fuck you to every projectile in the game

That's gotta give him some brownie points.

Not against meterburned zoning which usually sets him back full screen and discourages the use of his special when his opponent has meter, which is very easy in this game.