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Match-up Discussion Bane Matchup Discussion

RunwayMafia

Shoot them. Shoot them all.
I've had some limited HG experience, so I at least kinda know what's going on. If you're on PSN, I'll run a set with you. I haven't seen the other guys here play, so I can't speak for my level in comparison to theirs, but I don't think I'm terrible (W/L ratio is around 60%, all with Bane) so we should be able to get some decent games in.

PSN ID is chief713. Send me a FR, and I guess we can try to set up a time here or something.
Sweet...now this is what I'm talking about. Keep in mind this is for MU discussion purposes and the video will be posted here for critique and discussion...no salt needed (on my end as well) ;)
 

Boodendorf

Bird woman!
If there are any EU player here, I can also play against their Bane with my HG, probably not right now but maybe a bit later.
 

chief713

Vertebral Subluxationist
Sweet...now this is what I'm talking about. Keep in mind this is for MU discussion purposes and the video will be posted here for critique and discussion...no salt needed (on my end as well) ;)
lol, Don't worry, I'm not that kind of person. If I were concerned about salt, I wouldn't play a character with such crippling disadvantages.

Besides, I need the MU notes for the guide I'm working on. I've updated it since the last time I posted the link so here it is again. This guide is mostly for personal reference, but I figure it may help you guys out so I made it a bit more readable and organized.

Bane reference guide
 
lol, Don't worry, I'm not that kind of person. If I were concerned about salt, I wouldn't play a character with such crippling disadvantages.

Besides, I need the MU notes for the guide I'm working on. I've updated it since the last time I posted the link so here it is again. This guide is mostly for personal reference, but I figure it may help you guys out so I made it a bit more readable and organized.

Bane reference guide

Guide is great, good insights to people learning Bane.
 

LEGI0N47

I like to play bad characters
lol, Don't worry, I'm not that kind of person. If I were concerned about salt, I wouldn't play a character with such crippling disadvantages.

Besides, I need the MU notes for the guide I'm working on. I've updated it since the last time I posted the link so here it is again. This guide is mostly for personal reference, but I figure it may help you guys out so I made it a bit more readable and organized.

Bane reference guide
I enjoyed reading your guide despite knowing most all of it. I actually attempt many of those points, just choke on execution half the time :oops:

I'm interested to see what you come up with on the MU's.
 

D_Matt_Ma

Sheeva isn't Goro's wife. Goro is her husband.
Cyborg... and I thought I hated Batman.

Instant Air Fireball with missiles all day... Bane ain't doing anything this match-up. I recommend if you play Bane at this point to find a secondary to deal with zoners like Cyborg.

So far, my week 1 prediction of Batman and Cyborg being impossible match-ups is playing out. All that is left is to see if Superman falls into that category. Time will tell.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
I laughed at cyborg. Its not an easy MU...

Oh wait, yes it is. His blockstun infinite is already confirmed to be patched out, and he doesn't have enough to make us not simply level 3 venom through his puny projectile game in the beginning and shark him until he is gone. This is one of the few MUs where we can get away with using level 3 venom because he has next to nothing to stop us with, and everything he "does" have isn't going to be too crippling.

Bats is a harder MU, honestly.
 

chrisofrays

Fish can hear you thinkin just before you sneeze
faced my girst good aqua man today got whupped lol. was wondering how you keep good preasure on vs his reach.
 

PND_Mustard

"More stealthful than the night"
Elder God
6-4 being "undeniably hard" is a bit of a stretch.
please explain why you feel it's only a 6-4? stage is a big part in this, Bane needs the corner, and if Batman gets Gotham city not only will you not get the corner, batman also has numerous ways to escape pressure easily with environments and can also make the dumpster/barrels/signs unavoidable by using his trait, you need a stage like Arkham to make this even close to a 6-4.

everything batman has is an easy counter to Bane, regular projectile beats armour, trait stops Bane from playing any sort of footsies, and his amazing backdash makes pressuring him on wakeup risky, if you b1/b2 on prediction of a wakeup parry and he backdashes, you're getting a full combo whiff punish. raging charge is absolutely useless in this MU as he can stop it in many different easy/reactable ways.

Batman has a 6 frame standing 1 and a 9 frame b1, making most of Banes frametraps not work, as he has no reason to ever not press buttons after as banes fastest normal is a high standing 1. if you predict the poke and armour through you are not at any position to beat a wakeup backdash from any of your specials on hit, unless you back to back raging charge which he, as i said earlier, can parry on reaction.

UsedForGlue will be able to back me up.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
please explain why you feel it's only a 6-4? stage is a big part in this, Bane needs the corner, and if Batman gets Gotham city not only will you not get the corner, batman also has numerous ways to escape pressure easily with environments and can also make the dumpster/barrels/signs unavoidable by using his trait, you need a stage like Arkham to make this even close to a 6-4.

We don't need the corner, honestly. Also stage choice is pretty meh too, I'll credit some give advantage vs others but random selection will make it so stage doesn't play as big a part since there's an equal chance you will always/will never get said stage. We need one knockdown, outside of that we win.

everything batman has is an easy counter to Bane,

Seems that way, but eh.

regular projectile beats armour,

Jump button is free. He can MB, but he'll need hella meter to keep doing it. We just need to get in once.

trait stops Bane from playing any sort of footsies,

Assuming he can keep it out and never falls into any trap or the like, or a counter hit. That's not counting the recharge and him having to activate it.

and his amazing backdash makes pressuring him on wakeup risky,

Not that bad honestly since he have answers for it, plus we get the better deal out of it since he doesn't have a very strong wake-up game.

if you b1/b2 on prediction of a wakeup parry and he backdashes, you're getting a full combo whiff punish. raging charge is absolutely useless in this MU as he can stop it in many different easy/reactable ways.

No need, we can do jump-ins for days into landing traps for free. Also command grab beats parry, and at certain timings backdash as well. Dash forward and late splash beat them both. If we manage to bait him back, we can also snag all of this for free since he doesn't have anything except running away to stop us on wake-up.

Batman has a 6 frame standing 1 and a 9 frame b1, making most of Banes frametraps not work, as he has no reason to ever not press buttons after as banes fastest normal is a high standing 1. if you predict the poke and armour through you are not at any position to beat a wakeup backdash from any of your specials on hit, unless you back to back raging charge which he, as i said earlier, can parry on reaction.

That's fair, though he will be pressing buttons. He can't sit there and attempt to guess right constantly, and as I listed above we have answers for his backdash on wake-up. If baited, its a free super if we have the meter for it, but dash buffered attacks should work well enough. As far as frame-traps, we have tricks like b.1 normal throw and b.11 command grab which can't simply be waited out like you are insisting. Our biggest asset is his inability to wake-up with anything barring a run and a parry guess which can be blown up pretty hard. We beat everything else.

UsedForGlue will be able to back me up.
I don't feel its as bad as you guys think. From mid-screen we can basically force him to keep running and guessing, and eventually that leads to the corner which, as you said, is our best spot.
 

PND_Ketchup

"More deadly than the dawn"
I don't feel its as bad as you guys think. From mid-screen we can basically force him to keep running and guessing, and eventually that leads to the corner which, as you said, is our best spot.
Which Batman can easily escape. Which is the problem.

It's not just Bane, Lobo has this problem as well, especially if Batman gets Gotham City, you work him into the corner, and he can escape comfortably, making you chase him down all over again, taking getting hit by batarangs/trait over and over into the mix and you have an incredibly tough matchup on your hands.

The issue is that Batman isn't just running away, he's dealing damage constantly, due to the fact Bane HAS to chase him. Its not like he's just backdashing doing nothing.

I watch Mustard and Glue play regularly, In now way is this match a 6-4. Even with Arkham, in my opinion. Your eyes will certainly be opened if you ever fight a Batman that knows how to abuse all this dirt.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Which Batman can easily escape. Which is the problem.

It's not just Bane, Lobo has this problem as well, especially if Batman gets Gotham City, you work him into the corner, and he can escape comfortably, making you chase him down all over again, taking getting hit by batarangs/trait over and over into the mix and you have an incredibly tough matchup on your hands.

I watch Mustard and Glue play regularly, In now way is this match a 6-4. Even with Arkham, in my opinion.
I've played my fair share of it, I feel its 6-4 without the stage inclusion. He can run, but only for so long, and we have answers for running that he doesn't. Above that, on wake-up as I said, but late splash and dash beat out just about all of his options. Once we get full meter (which will happen), back dash on wake-up isn't a viable options anymore.
 

PND_Ketchup

"More deadly than the dawn"
I've played my fair share of it, I feel its 6-4 without the stage inclusion. He can run, but only for so long, and we have answers for running that he doesn't. Above that, on wake-up as I said, but late splash and dash beat out just about all of his options. Once we get full meter (which will happen), back dash on wake-up isn't a viable options anymore.
What answers?
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
What answers?
For one, our dash goes further and cools down faster, and we can buffer out the end of it. There's also the whole they are forcing themselves into a corner and at 1 CL away he can't batarang us to beat out our armor. He can't pressure from there, so he has to keep running or risk a parry. As I've said before, he is golden if we can't get in. The only problem is eventually we will, and he can't stop us once we do without running himself into an even worse situation.
 

PND_Ketchup

"More deadly than the dawn"
For one, our dash goes further and cools down faster, and we can buffer out the end of it. There's also the whole they are forcing themselves into a corner and at 1 CL away he can't batarang us to beat out our armor. He can't pressure from there, so he has to keep running or risk a parry. As I've said before, he is golden if we can't get in. The only problem is eventually we will, and he can't stop us once we do without running himself into an even worse situation.
Did you read Mustards post at all?

Batman has a 6 frame standing 1, so most of Banes frame traps don't work.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Did you read Mustards post at all?

Batman has a 6 frame standing 1, so most of Banes frame traps don't work.
I already listed 2 that do, and a 6 frame standing 1 would be great if it didn't only hit high and require him to be really really close to us. Not to mention he'd have to be taking some huge risks to try and use it. He has it, sure. Will he use it? That's the real question, and with us being able to cancel most attacks into armored specials like VU and BP I don't see him using standing 1 as an answer for any of it.

If we assume he does, we basically have a free read to go into anything we really want to. The frame traps are more use frames, stuff counterance. That means the standing 1 falls under the same boat.
 

PND_Ketchup

"More deadly than the dawn"
I already listed 2 that do, and a 6 frame standing 1 would be great if it didn't only hit high and require him to be really really close to us. Not to mention he'd have to be taking some huge risks to try and use it. He has it, sure. Will he use it? That's the real question, and with us being able to cancel most attacks into armored specials like VU and BP I don't see him using standing 1 as an answer for any of it.

If we assume he does, we basically have a free read to go into anything we really want to. The frame traps are more use frames, stuff counterance. That means the standing 1 falls under the same boat.
So using venom and doing armored specials after ll your normals on block is what makes this not bad for bane when he gets in?

What are you going to do when it debuffs? What if batman has trait activate when you manage to close in space?
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
So using venom and doing armored specials after ll your normals on block is what makes this not bad for bane when he gets in?

What are you going to do when it debuffs? What if batman has trait activate when you manage to close in space?
"what if" are things that I don't tend to play towards, but heck lets go for it.
I have a 2 second cooldown. Also not just armored specials, we also have traps like b.1 d.1 which would duck standing 1 and land a free hit into oki. In that 2 seconds, pretty much any attack I land can be buffered into a special and the cooldown is circumvented.

I can also just sit directly in your face and force you to run or bluff a parry, if not go for a MB b.3/f.3 as I see fit. I can also do a jump-in which by the time I land the cooldown will be over. I have access to grabs and the like as well. What makes it not bad for Bane is Batman needs to keep away otherwise he loses most of his effectiveness against us. Up close, we have the better options by a huge margin.

And if he happens to have trait active, then we just trap him for free and get rid of it. No problem.


What you should be asking isn't "what if", its "what is". As in, "what is Batman's options up close, on wake-up, and the like that can beat out venom from less than 1CL away at any given moment?"
 

PND_Ketchup

"More deadly than the dawn"
"what if" are things that I don't tend to play towards, but heck lets go for it.
I have a 2 second cooldown. Also not just armored specials, we also have traps like b.1 d.1 which would duck standing 1 and land a free hit into oki. In that 2 seconds, pretty much any attack I land can be buffered into a special and the cooldown is circumvented.

I can also just sit directly in your face and force you to run or bluff a parry, if not go for a MB b.3/f.3 as I see fit. I can also do a jump-in which by the time I land the cooldown will be over. I have access to grabs and the like as well. What makes it not bad for Bane is Batman needs to keep away otherwise he loses most of his effectiveness against us. Up close, we have the better options by a huge margin.

And if he happens to have trait active, then we just trap him for free and get rid of it. No problem.


What you should be asking isn't "what if", its "what is". As in, "what is Batman's options up close, on wake-up, and the like that can beat out venom from less than 1CL away at any given moment?"
I'm going to be brutally honest.

I don't think you fight the right Batman players.