I give up on wake up attacks.

[Tom Brady]

I never said I want to get up for free, but when you get blown up over and over because your move just isn't coming out, or is coming out as a non-wakeup version, it becomes very irritating. I practiced too, and I can get wakeups to go off with about 90% consistency in practice mode (except Cyborg's Techno Tackle, which comes out as Target Acquired...), but that goes down to about 1% as soon as I go online. And like it or not, online play is a big enough part of this game to warrant an extra couple of frames of input leniency.

Allowing players (especially casual players) to actually do the moves they're trying to do is never a bad thing. Do you really want to win because an overly-strict game system prevented your opponent from doing the move they put in? Yeah, people should be practicing their wakeup timings, but adding those few extra frames of input leniency would not break the game; it could only allow more players to compete at a higher level.

It would break the game though.. making it easier to get up online makes it REALLY easy to get up offline. I don't have any trouble at all doing wu attacks online so long as the connection is decent.

AAAAAAND... Why s making it EASIER to play at high level good?

 

[kronspik]

I'm pretty sure Tom Brady will vehemently defend any existing feature of Injustice.

 

[Deleted member 5032]

It would break the game though.. making it easier to get up online makes it REALLY easy to get up offline. I don't have any trouble at all doing wu attacks online so long as the connection is decent.

But if you can already wake up 100% of the time offline, what's it matter how easy they make it? They could add 10 frames of leniency and it wouldn't affect you or most of the other pros. All I'm saying is an extra 2 to 4 frames of leniency would make the entire wakeup system more accessible, while not necessarily negatively affecting players who are already capable of getting them out.

 

[kronspik]

It would break the game though.. making it easier to get up online makes it REALLY easy to get up offline. I don't have any trouble at all doing wu attacks online so long as the connection is decent.

AAAAAAND... Why s making it EASIER to play at high level good?

It makes the game easier to play in a good way. Having very strict wakeup times does not add any depth to high level play. It just adds an execution barrier. Any change that makes the game more accessible without sacrificing depth should be considered.

 

[killa_solid]

I never said I want to get up for free, but when you get blown up over and over because your move just isn't coming out, or is coming out as a non-wakeup version, it becomes very irritating. I practiced too, and I can get wakeups to go off with about 90% consistency in practice mode (except Cyborg's Techno Tackle, which comes out as Target Acquired...), but that goes down to about 1% as soon as I go online. And like it or not, online play is a big enough part of this game to warrant an extra couple of frames of input leniency.

Allowing players (especially casual players) to actually do the moves they're trying to do is never a bad thing. Do you really want to win because an overly-strict game system prevented your opponent from doing the move they put in? Yeah, people should be practicing their wakeup timings, but adding those few extra frames of input leniency would not break the game; it could only allow more players to compete at a higher level.

Good idea!! While they are at it they should make cyborg's instant air fireball a lot easier too. The only reason I lose with him is because I cant do them low to the ground like I want. It sure would make competitive fighting a lot better when we eliminate all skill involved. No need to put in time to get better.

 

[Tom Brady]

There are some knockdowns such as sweeps that are very hard to wake up attack out of if the follow up is timed right. This is GOOD not bad, hence a bigger window is needed. Certain characters NEED this, making it too easy to wake up actually hurts things. You can already wake up without a problem, making it easier doesn't help. Just learn how to correctly wu attack.

 

[Deleted member 5032]

Good idea!! While they are at it they should make cyborg's instant air fireball a lot easier too. The only reason I lose with him is because I cant do them low to the ground like I want. It sure would make competitive fighting a lot better when we eliminate all skill involved. No need to put in time to get better.

I can see your point, and despite your insulting and sarcastic tone, I'll try to argue my point in a reasonable manner.

First off, those two aspects of the game aren't even kind of similar. This is a universal system that applies to all characters, and has nothing to do with a single character's powerful technique. They simply can't be compared.

I'm also not suggesting we "eliminate all skill involved". The current wakeup system is an issue. Pro players like Tom Brady may be able to do it 100% of the time offline, but the majority of players, even skilled players who have logged tons of practice time, are having serious issues with the system, especially online. Adding an extra 2 to 4 frames of leniency would not break the game or remove the need to practice.

 

[Tom Brady]

I can see your point, and despite your insulting and sarcastic tone, I'll try to argue my point in a reasonable manner.

First off, those two aspects of the game aren't even kind of similar. This is a universal system that applies to all characters, and has nothing to do with a single character's powerful technique. They simply can't be compared.

I'm also not suggesting we "eliminate all skill involved". The current wakeup system is an issue. Pro players like Tom Brady may be able to do it 100% of the time offline, but the majority of players, even skilled players who have logged tons of practice time, are having serious issues with the system, especially online. Adding an extra 2 to 4 frames of leniency would not break the game or remove the need to practice.

read my last post. yes, it would hurt. An extra 2-4 frames is a BIG deal..


Making things easier punishes the better players. Changing things to allow the more casual players to play around a pro level a little easier is never good.

 

[Stchamps]

HELL NO... I love it just the way it is. You guys wanna get up for free? God forbid something like wake up attacks cant be mashed out, that must be patched........

See, here is my issue... I wake up with a WU attack any time I want, why don't I have that problem? AHHHH.. because I used to feel the way you guys do now and I PRACTICED

I probably wouldn't have as much of a problem with them if the online was more consistent. It doesn't matter how much I practice them offline, I will still miss plenty of wake ups online due to the input delay in this game. I've only played SS4AE for about 2 months now but I can pull off wake up attacks consistently online even though I'm pretty awful at the game. It's just so annoying in this game when the wake up attack doesn't come out because I end up eating a full combo.

 

[Deleted member 5032]

There are some knockdowns such as sweeps that are very hard to wake up attack out of if the follow up is timed right. This is GOOD not bad, hence a bigger window is needed. Certain characters NEED this, making it too easy to wake up actually hurts things. You can already wake up without a problem, making it easier doesn't help. Just learn how to correctly wu attack.

Sorry Tom, I've got all the respect in the world for you, but I still disagree. I guess we just have different fundamental viewpoints. I can see what you're saying, and I totally understand where you're coming from; I just still believe an extra few frames of leniency would do more good than harm for the reasons I've stated.

When it comes down to it, it's nothing more than one random player's opinion. NRS is going to do what they're going to do, and it doesn't matter one bit what I think. I just figured I would share my opinion on the subject of this thread; I never expected it to be so controversial.

 

[big_aug]

Good idea!! While they are at it they should make cyborg's instant air fireball a lot easier too. The only reason I lose with him is because I cant do them low to the ground like I want. It sure would make competitive fighting a lot better when we eliminate all skill involved. No need to put in time to get better.

Why not make specials require inputs like ddbfdfbdfdfbbbf3 so we can see who is REALLY skilled?


I don't care if they ever change the system. I'll get it eventually. But making stupid arguments is stupid.

 

[Stchamps]

Why not make specials require inputs like ddbfdfbdfdfbbbf3 so we can see who is REALLY skilled?


I don't care if they ever change the system. I'll get it eventually. But making stupid arguments is stupid.

I agree. Right now I actually think the difficult wake up system makes the game less skilled because it makes vortexes far easier, so even average players like myself can vortex efficiently.

 

[killa_solid]

Why not make specials require inputs like ddbfdfbdfdfbbbf3 so we can see who is REALLY skilled?


I don't care if they ever change the system. I'll get it eventually. But making stupid arguments is stupid.

The difference is people who have put in the time can get wakeups consistently. The reason being you can't do it online, it's too hard bc it's not mashable like MK or bc I don't want to spend the time to learn the proper timing is irrelevant.

 

[Tom Brady]

Sorry Tom, I've got all the respect in the world for you, but I still disagree. I guess we just have different fundamental viewpoints. I can see what you're saying, and I totally understand where you're coming from; I just still believe an extra few frames of leniency would do more good than harm for the reasons I've stated.

When it comes down to it, it's nothing more than one random player's opinion. NRS is going to do what they're going to do, and it doesn't matter one bit what I think. I just figured I would share my opinion on the subject of this thread; I never expected it to be so controversial.

The reason why I responded to this thread is because I don't want someone thinking "yea.. the problem is they need to add a few more frames! its not my timing nor do I need to practice.. its the game man.. its messed up".. I know that this not what you said or are even trying to say, but people read things and go way off the deep end lol.

In the end, it works just fine, just some connections online (or most depending on your area and connection) make it hard to do. The answer isn't adding more frames, the answer is and will always be a better online.

 

[Tom Brady]

I agree. Right now I actually think the difficult wake up system makes the game less skilled because it makes vortexes far easier, so even average players like myself can vortex efficiently.

Try to efficiently vortex at a major offline event vs top players. then you will say "hmmm... they seem to get up every time".. If I know what you are going to follow up with, then I will get out of it. However, because no one truly KNOWS, its called making a read. If I make the right one, I'm getting up every time. If I make the wrong one, then I get caught. Maybe the players caught in your vortex are trying to mash out a wu attack? Should there be no penaltiy for trying to mash it out. They should just be able to mash it out?

 

[killa_solid]

I agree. Right now I actually think the difficult wake up system makes the game less skilled because it makes vortexes far easier, so even average players like myself can vortex efficiently.

You know wakeups aren't the only answer to a vortex right. Vortex's in Street fighter you have to learn to recognize and work at it to block.

 

[Stchamps]

Try to efficiently vortex at a major offline event vs top players. then you will say "hmmm... they seem to get up every time".. If I know what you are going to follow up with, then I will get out of it. However, because no one truly KNOWS, its called making a read. If I make the right one, I'm getting up every time. If I make the wrong one, then I get caught. Maybe the players caught in your vortex are trying to mash out a wu attack? Should there be no penaltiy for trying to mash it out. They should just be able to mash it out?

I don't want to be able to mash it out. I just need like a slightly larger window. Maybe I'm being a drama queen because I only play online so I experience the worst of this game since the online is probably the worst part (along with stage interactables >_<)

 

[big_aug]

Clashes also suck ass online unless I'm just doing it wrong. They don't come out half the time.

 

[Dandy J]

Being able to reversal easily as you get up shouldn't be a requirement of being 'good'. If making them super easy would "break the game" or change a character's gameplan, then the moves themselves are messed up, not the wakeup window. It's a basic gameplay mechanic, not some super-advanced technique. It should be easy. Local players here consider the controls in this game to be crappy, and it's almost all due to ways the game reads inputs in a very strict way. And this is coming from guilty gear players, kof players, tekken players of years past. Not some mashers. Making basic things artificially hard to do does not improve the game or make it more skilled. There are neanderthal-minded players out there with good execution, believe it or not.

While I'm probably going to win vs certain people more than I would or get away with more things I would because I have better execution for basic stuff, I don't think it's the correct way to design a game. Case in point sf4. In ST or other old games I could do meaties or throw loops for free on a lot of players that just couldn't hit the reversals. In sf4 I actually had to respect everyone on wakeup to a certain extent and learn tight, accurate setups for these situations. THAT made be a better player, more than hitting a 1f reversal window ever did.

 

[Tom Brady]

Being able to reversal easily as you get up shouldn't be a requirement of being 'good'. If making them super easy would "break the game" or change a character's gameplan, then the moves themselves are messed up, not the wakeup window. It's a basic gameplay mechanic, not some super-advanced technique. It should be easy. Local players here consider the controls in this game to be crappy, and it's almost all due to ways the game reads inputs in a very strict way. And this is coming from guilty gear players, kof players, tekken players of years past. Not some mashers. Making basic things artificially hard to do does not improve the game or make it more skilled. There are neanderthal-minded players out there with good execution, believe it or not.

While I'm probably going to win vs certain people more than I would or get away with more things I would because I have better execution for basic stuff, I don't think it's the correct way to design a game. Case in point sf4. In ST or other old games I could do meaties or throw loops for free on a lot of players that just couldn't hit the reversals. In sf4 I actually had to respect everyone on wakeup to a certain extent and learn tight, accurate setups for these situations. THAT made be a better player, more than hitting a 1f reversal window ever did.

again... A LOT of us have no issue getting our wu attack, why do you? are you SURE the problem is the game?

 

[killa_solid]

Clashes also suck ass online unless I'm just doing it wrong. They don't come out half the time.

IDK if you know or not but you don't need to hit forward+MB as you are being hit, you can hold forward and MB as you are being comboed to get clash at the first available opportunity. I have never had a problem clashing that way.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

AAAAAAND... Why s making it EASIER to play at high level good?

But why is making it hard gonna change anything at high level, if top players as yourself have no problem doing them anytime you want?

I don't want all characters to be able to get up for free and I don't want all wake ups to be 100% invincible. But I don't really understand the logic or intention here.

To me it's the same thing as 1 frame links or just-frame moves. They absolutely have no reason to exist other than create unnecessary execution barriers. At the highest level some players are unaffected by this execution problem while others with average execution will be. So the way I see it this type of thing just creates a gap between high execution players and the other players.

 

[Hellion_96]

One of the hardest things to wake up from is after a green latern ends a combo in lift then immediately goes into a b1 string. I have like a 5% success rate.

 

[killa_solid]

One of the hardest things to wake up from is after a green latern ends a combo in lift then immediately goes into a b1 string. I have like a 5% success rate.

But it should be like that imo. GL doesnt have dmg, the hard knokdown he gets from his lift into a setup is what makes up for it. If wakeups were easy, then some characters would have free wake ups every time since their special would be safe on block and can't be baited and whiffed punished. It would be totally ridiculous and would elevate zoning even more.

 

[Hellion_96]

But it should be like that imo. GL doesnt have dmg, the hard knokdown he gets from his lift into a setup is what makes up for it. If wakeups were easy, then some characters would have free wake ups every time since their special would be safe on block and can't be baited and whiffed punished. It would be totally ridiculous and would elevate zoning even more.

I understand that I was just saying. That was actually one of my biggest complaints about mk9 was knockdowns weere more in the favor of the person who was knocked down half the time.