DLC/Patch general discussion

[Helter Skelter]

General Stuff:

-Fix the glitch where you kill an opponent and are left with disadvantage before your second opponent comes in. You should land and after 1 full second you the opponent come in. This is a pretty stupid part of Tag and it makes it a risk to do full BnB on people.

-Reduce the frames of invincibility on wakeup attacks. I heard that it was 8 frames. That's ridiculous and needs to be reduced or better yet different moves need to specific frames of invincibility on wakeup.

-Please put a win count on the versus screens while playing. It's incredibly hard to judge Tag matches in tournaments by yourself at the moment.

-Make sure to watch WorstGiefEVER's video about changes needed.

-In training mode change the moves that say High but still hit crouch opponents to Medium in Red font or S.Medium.

-Tournament mode should be selected in the options menu.

-Make the computer jump on the first possible frame after landing training mode.

-Give the play the option of Normal, Full and Max Start for the meter options in Training mode.

-Tone down damage in general. Not just for top tiers. This is one of the most silly things about the game, right now. Characters have safe low starters that can be repeated over and over in combos for plus 30% damage. Dumb. Right now meter is crazy because some characters need it break certain damage thresholds but the higher tier characters are dropping that damage at ease.

-I know you're trying to get people to have fun with fatalities, but the time to execute them is WAY too long. In tournaments and house matches, I can walk up to my opponent, jump back FIVE times, do Mileena's ball roll to get closer and then do her Pit fatality. Fatalities aren't hard to pull off anymore. Don't allow for people hands to be held so much. It really does affect tournaments, online and the game's pace.

Character stuff:

-Sheeva should have armor on her EN Jump Stomp, EN Anti-Air Grab and EN Grab N Punch.

-Jax should receive armour on his EN Dash Punch and EN Ground Pound. His Normal throw should do a base damage of 12% but the extension should add and unscaled 2% per extra hit. Make Ground Pounds dash cancellable after the punch hits the ground. His EN Ground pound can already have it's animation cancelled but it shouldn't cost meter. Other changes in regards to chains and po-ups can be implemented.

-Ermac's moves need a reduction in damage. He should play the same but his damage is super high for the kind of character he is. His Telelifts and pushes are silly damage. It's massive zoning and he's currently taking 11% per Push and the lesser characters struggle to punish it or get in.

-Don't remove Smokes OTG. It makes him unique. Find away for him to keep it and then just adjust his damage around it. Realistically it should do 0% seeing that it leads into free combos. I would start with that.

-Buff Baraka. Give him decent combo starters that lead into genuine damage.

-Keep Kitana similar just adjust her damage.

-Reduce the damage on Cyber Sub Zero's EN dive kick it's way too safe and damaging. 3,4 needs to be adjust he should be able to get 35+ damage by pressing two buttons in the corner. That's alll certain characters can get midscreen with work included. Sometimes with meter. lol.

-Liu Kang. You guys fucked up. The dumbest combos off low starters that lead into some of the best damage in the game. lol.

-.Check the Mileena boards here. Make some genuinely good decisions with her. Try seeing how she would be if she could cancel a whiffed ball roll into a block the same way Kabal and Reptile can cancel there runs. Probably make her a lot of technical for better mixups and the same time.

-Stryker. I don't know about him too much. Make his Gun Shot and the enhanced version 'Block' cancellable if the gun had be pulled out and has been held, but don't give him meter until he shoots it.

-Sektor's EN Homing Rocket should blow up and dissipate if he gets hit. You can punish him accordingly but still get hit by the rocket regardless.

 

[Matix]

I like what I've heard so far with what the first patch should bring. As for DLC I'd like to be able to get some more costumes (maybe even an alternate Cyber Sub, even though regular technically counts as him, I'm thinking maybe like a different cyborg design or somthing)
I remember hearing something about one of the first DLC characters being free (or at least Netherrealms was considering it) That would be cool if true. Not to tell them how to price their content (though technically I am) I'd at least like the DLC characters to be less money than a certain other fighting game (cough....Marvel 3...cough). I'm definitely looking forward to Skarlett and Kenshi, though I can't think of any others I'd like added off the top of my head since I haven't really played much of the 3D games, and it's been a while since I've played the old games.

Lastly I really hope the patch fixes the online because I'd like to play King of the Hill with no lag (Really like the avatar theater thing XD )

Great game so far Netherrealms just gotta hammer a few things out!

Scarlett is going to be free for 360, because ps3 got kratos.

 

[THTB]

-Reduce the frames of invincibility on wakeup attacks. I heard that it was 8 frames. That's ridiculous and needs to be reduced or better yet different moves need to specific frames of invincibility on wakeup.

There are only a handful of moves that are faster than 8 frames.

-Tone down damage in general. Not just for top tiers. This is one of the most silly things about the game, right now. Characters have safe low starters that can be repeated over and over in combos for plus 30% damage. Dumb. Right now meter is crazy because some characters need it break certain damage thresholds but the higher tier characters are dropping that damage at ease.

That's just MK. I don't think the damage is a problem for the most part. The only true offender IMO is Kung Lao's corner stuff...at midscreen he actually doesn't even do that much damage unless you spend meter.

As for character tweaks, let the game play out first. Aside from obvious tweaks such as Kung's damage, Baraka/Jax overall, and Cyrax's command throw glitch making it a 2f break, there's not much that actually needs to be changed.

 

[9.95]

NO NO NO. scorpion teleport needs to be nerfed.

Scorpion's Teleport is TERRIBLE. If you're losing to naked TP's, then you're doing it wrong... it's so slow...

 

[RNGoddess]

Dare I to request for Mid Screen Kombo capability for Noob Saibot?

 

[SZSR]

Nerf Liu Kang or at least make his combo starters (the overhead and low one) unsafe on block.

 

[low_kix]

I think the only reasons a character should be nerfed is if they have an infinite, or they are broken. And by broken I mean that character is dominating tourneys... have we seen that yet?



"I am vengeance, I am the night..."

 

[Notorious J.I.Z]

Coming from Tom Brady, Baraka is getting both damage increase and a juggle off of his Slices special... which is godlike

 

[THTB]

Nerf Liu Kang or at least make his combo starters (the overhead and low one) unsafe on block.

His string that ends in overhead is easily seen, and the low string, obviously blockable.

The character is good, but there are simply better characters than him...quite a few characters, actually.

 

[SZSR]

I think the only reasons a character should be nerfed is if they have an infinite, or they are broken. And by broken I mean that character is dominating tourneys... have we seen that yet?



"I am vengeance, I am the night..."

If you're talking to me then, Perfect Legend had a dominating Liu Kang at Power Up 2011. I don't think that takes away from his tools, they'll still be there.

His string that ends in overhead is easily seen, and the low string, obviously blockable.

The character is good, but there are simply better characters than him...quite a few characters, actually.

I can definitely see it happening but even with flawlesss connections online it is a bit broken to me. But if he seems beatable already (even if I don't see openings) then i'll take your word for it.

 

[Mgt2]

Even tho I don't use Baraka or Jax I can tell they need a buff. Now those two besides that I dunno.

 

[dookieagain]

If you're talking to me then, Perfect Legend had a dominating Liu Kang at Power Up 2011. I don't think that takes away from his tools, they'll still be there.

I can definitely see it happening but even with flawlesss connections online it is a bit broken to me. But if he seems beatable already (even if I don't see openings) then i'll take your word for it.

Don't base balance around online. I hate losing to Liu Kang because those are stupid online, but that's the nature of online. Kung Lao's spin is unpunishable online, and while I still think low tiers should have options to punish it harder, I'm okay with it staying the same. Reptile is basically unpunishable online too, but he hasn't even won a tournament even with THTB playing him amazingly, so let's hold off on balancing anything because of online play. That's a dangerous precedent.

 

[Dandy J]

-In training mode change the moves that say High but still hit crouch opponents to Medium in Red font or S.Medium.

Good idea but it gets a little more complicated than that. There are 3 types of 'high' attacks:

- those that cannot be ducked at all
- those that will connect vs crouch block, but whiff vs crouch without block
- those that will whiff on crouchers no matter what

I'm not really sure what they could do to easily differentiate between all these moves without making it confusing for new players. I think something like this would be good, respective to the descriptions above:

- mid
- special high
- high

Then moves called 'medium' right now (i.e. moves that must be blocked standing) could changed to 'overhead'. Even if they don't change in the game, it would be nice if the community took up this naming standard or something like it so we can talk abut move properties without having to type out a paragraph.

Also I think everyone should hold off on any balance requests until after this next patch.

 

[cgerrr]

Scorpion:
- Currently, his overhead is VERY slow and can be fuzzy blocked from a crouch block when you hear the sound of the swords. In higher level matches and against people with Scorpion matchup experience, semi-negates his 50/50, as you'll have to catch someone sleeping to get them with the overhead. Speed up the overhead.

- Scorpion's teleport is seriously slow. He can't use it to anti-zone whatsoever and this is a huge problem for a character so reliant on getting inside to be effective. His ability to get inside is already very risky, and combine that with the fuzzy block an overhead and he loses a lot of his options when he gets inside vs. someone familiar with the matchup. Increase the speed of the teleport so he can punish zoning and get inside.

I’m all for this changes and Scorpion really needs something going for him, because as it’s now – he’s just overnerfed barely mid tier character without anything except visual design, which is not related to gameplay at all.

To elaborate:

- teleport is his only reliable tool to go in and actually one and only viable way to have his offence going with safe jump in to 50/50 on tele hit, but after beta nerf it’s sooooooo sloooooooooooow, that Scorp is getting hit by projectiles which he supposed to avoid with tele, not even mentioning practically impossible zoning punishing with tele, even if you DID ANTICIPATE a projectile coming (you’ll be blocked and eat full combo);

- his ONLY viable offence is jump in 50/50, which is already went from 50/50 to 33/33/33 or worse coz people learned to fuzzy blocking. Really slow overhead make it even worse;

- not to mention how bad is risk/reward ratio for Scorpion now after the nerf – multiple tele combo should come back with faster tele (it’s not like 90% of people online can pool it off, so cool down haters, you won’t see the difference);

- and I like to add his Leg takedown need a push back on block, that opp could punish it only with specials: for a weak short ranged knockdown special which doesn’t grant any wake up situations full combo punish is a bit overboard, don’t you sink? And Scorp needs this move to be half punishable coz with fuzzy blocking I can see his 50/50 degrading to 25/25/25/25, which is unacceptable for his ONLY viable way to actually attack and do damage.

 

[PANDEMlC]

Buff everyone! Nerfs are boring.

Fix all the glitches.

MK2 or UMK3 style costumes. I want to play as that style of Ermac not the MK1 style outfit.

RAIN!!!! Preferably with a ninja MK3 costume alt similar to human smoke at least.

 

[DrDogg]

General

- Don't nerf any characters.
- Allow players to tech grabs while blocking.
- Remove the ridiculous negative edge window.

Jax

- Ground Pound should be AT LEAST as fast as Sheeva's version or Nightwolf's lightning.
- Normal Ground Pound should be dash cancellable similar to the EX Ground Pound.
- Gotcha Grab should be unblockable, but techable, like Cyrax's command grab.
- EX Dash Punch should juggle, or at least be special-mid so you can't duck under it.

The first three buffs would move Jax up to about mid-tier. The last buff probably isn't necessary, but it would make Jax a real contender.

 

[cyke_out]

I've heard people say that a patch was downloaded for 360. Can anyone confirm/deny and if true did anything change?

 

[Hydro]

General
- Allow players to tech grabs while blocking.

I like most of your other ideas, but hate this one. MK is not a turtling game - zoning is active, defensive countering is active, blocking really should only be a last resort. That's why there's a block button instead of just holding back to block like in most other fighters. Keeps the series fast/active and entertaining to watch. If you don't like the jump-in punch 50/50 with grab, there's a ton of anti-air in this game and getting safe jumps is an integral part of the game's core strategy.

- Ground Pound should be AT LEAST as fast as Sheeva's version or Nightwolf's lightning.
- Normal Ground Pound should be dash cancellable similar to the EX Ground Pound.
- Gotcha Grab should be unblockable, but techable, like Cyrax's command grab.
- EX Dash Punch should juggle, or at least be special-mid so you can't duck under it.

Ground pound would probably need a damage nerf if it was that fast - 15% is pretty huge and it juggles with no meter from close/mid range. I do like the dash cancel though.

Unblockable gotcha would probably need to have a very large tech window if they were to do this - the gotcha/overhead elbow/dash punch mixup would be devastating otherwise, and all could come off of very fast, safe pokes with starting height mixup as well. Jax would be really really dangerous in close, though that does make sense for the type of character he's supposed to be.

 

[Dandy J]

- Allow players to tech grabs while blocking.

nooooooooooo

 

[DrDogg]

I like most of your other ideas, but hate this one. MK is not a turtling game - zoning is active, defensive countering is active, blocking really should only be a last resort. That's why there's a block button instead of just holding back to block like in most other fighters. Keeps the series fast/active and entertaining to watch. If you don't like the jump-in punch 50/50 with grab, there's a ton of anti-air in this game and getting safe jumps is an integral part of the game's core strategy.

I don't understand how you can say blocking is a last resort. Play me using blocking as a last resort and I will straight rape you.

Giving me the option to tech a grab while blocking doesn't change anything other than making throws less viable in high level play. Considering throws are barely viable in Tekken, and only moderately viable in SF and SC, I don't see why it's a huge issue to tone them down a bit in MK.

Also, it's not just the jump punch 50/50. First off, there are many cases in which a jump punch is impossible to anti-air. In high-level play you'll see these situations more often than not. So saying, "just anti-air" isn't a solution. Secondly, I don't need to jump punch to setup a throw. I can stop a combo at any time and get a virtually free throw attempt.

It's ridiculous to force me to leave myself vulnerable to ANY and ALL attacks just so I can tech a grab. The ability to grab tech while blocking would not impact the game very much at all.

Unblockable gotcha would probably need to have a very large tech window if they were to do this - the gotcha/overhead elbow/dash punch mixup would be devastating otherwise, and all could come off of very fast, safe pokes with starting height mixup as well. Jax would be really really dangerous in close, though that does make sense for the type of character he's supposed to be.

I'm not following you here. Gotcha Grab doesn't have any guaranteed follow ups. At best you get some oki options. Cyrax gets a full combo off of his grab. Why would you need a huge window to tech it? I especially don't understand the need for a huge window when you just argued about the ability to tech a grab while blocking. Gotcha Grab is basically the same as a normal grab.

Also, there's no mixup to Gotcha/overhead/dash punch. The overhead is slow enough to block high on reaction. Even if it wasn't, all you'd need to do is allow grabs to be teched while blocking and there's no need to duck in any of those options.

 

[chessmaster]

that was a rumor so don't bank on that being true.

 

[chessmaster]

Scarlett is going to be free for 360, because ps3 got kratos.

this is a rumor. sorry if i reposted.

 

[Xzax]

Shujinko, Rain, and Blaze should be added

 

[mhtdtr]

in general i think is a bad idea to rebalance things only because people ask for it. in modern days (internet forum days) everyone ask for buffs, nerfs, etc... like there will not be a tomorrow. a lot of people complains about a lot of things that are not bad in games and this can cause bizarre patches adjusment in fighting games. i think the feedback must come from the top players if its come from someone cause change everything that everyone compleins about it can cause a crappy game in balance.
i think this patch is good in general and fixing the infinites and glitches this could be one of the mk games more balance of all times but we must wait to see and judge later.

 

[GNG Iniquity]

I like most of your other ideas, but hate this one. MK is not a turtling game - zoning is active, defensive countering is active, blocking really should only be a last resort. That's why there's a block button instead of just holding back to block like in most other fighters. Keeps the series fast/active and entertaining to watch. If you don't like the jump-in punch 50/50 with grab, there's a ton of anti-air in this game and getting safe jumps is an integral part of the game's core strategy.