Match-up Discussion Green Arrow Matchup Discussion

[Euphoric]

 

[Euphoric]

 

[Euphoric]

 

[Euphoric]

Reserved

 

[Mysticism]

How does he do against DS and Lantern?

 

[Doctor]

Green Arrow does pretty poorly against Deathstroke, in my opinion. My friend and I are Deathstroke and Green Arrow mains (respectively) and we play this match-up 30-40 times a day. The points I have learned from this grinding session:

• Blocking and patience are your best tools against Deathstroke. You're going to get beat up by him if you try to play aggressively. His options beat yours. Look for punishes.
• Green Arrow needs to end his strings by cancelling into DD4/DB4/DF4. This sacrifices a bit of damage (usually 5-10% raw damage on the end of your combo before degradation) but it allows you to safely equip an arrow. I can't stress enough how important this is. Green Arrow needs his trait to be on par with most of the cast in terms of ranged game. If you manage to dry equip (just by getting to midscreen+ and hitting the command) you're going to eat Deathstroke's DF1 for 6% damage and pushback, or 14% damage from his DF2. If you take a DF2MB, you're looking at 17% damage and a knockback, setting you up for a disadvantage. Consider this: You equip fire arrows and eat a DF2 MB. You're now farther away on the screen, where Deathstroke has better options and are down 17% health. Your fire arrows do 8% each; meaning you need to land all 3 to have a better trade than Deathstroke gets for free. Don't equip arrows unless you're cancelling in from a string.
• On that note, it is extremely important to remember to -try and always have arrows equipped.- If you don't have a trait, your next pressure string (b23, b13, 113, f2d13 etc) should be ended with dd4, df4 or db4. The arrow choices are yours, but I prefer freeze arrows and fire arrows vs Deathstroke because each knockdown scores me 1-2 safe dashes to close the distance and reduce Deathstroke's power.
• Once you're in on Deathstroke, the match-up goes from shitty to less shitty. Deathstroke's wake-up options are solid, but unsafe. This comes back to the first point: Blocking and patience are your best tools. Deathstroke players will often use the df3 (Sword Flip) as a wake-up option with it's extremely fast start-up and solid priority. If Deathstroke wakes up with a df3 and you block it- you get a free f2d13 xx Equip Arrow. It's not a lot of damage but it works and it gets you an arrow. Green Arrow's other options all pretty much suck so far as I'm aware. Slide is inconsistent: you win or it trades if it's meatier, but if you're a split second late you're gonna get owned and sent back into the zoning vortex. His DF3 isn't technically safe on block, but the pushback and startup of your strings means that most of your stuff is going to be blocked if you do actually manage to get in on him after a blocked df3, but I've found that most Deathstroke players (and players in general) aren't ready for the f2d13's quick low-overhead mixup so you'll usually score a hit off of an incorrect block, and it's relatively safe.
• If Deathstroke is playing the zoning game from full-screen your only option that I've found is to walk forward and crouch block on reaction to Machine Gun startup. Crouch blocking severely reduces Deathstroke's zoning options: low pistols and does chip and gives you a little bit of a walk-forward, high-pistols whiff and give you a solid step or two forward, machine gun will hip and usually gives a dash in between firing. The only reaction ability you need to learn is to stand block if you notice him doing the EX machine gun. The grenade fired hits overhead and will push you back 1/4 to 1/2 screen. DO NOT JUMP AT DEATHSTROKE. It is the worst thing you can do. Jumping over the Machine Guns gives him a chance to react and EX the Machine gun and the grenade will hit you, knocking you back and returning you to the stupidity of his full-screen game. Slowly walk towards him. If he backdashes to open the gap, you have time to forward dash and close it. While this game is slow and methodical, you are getting closer to him which is what you want and if he's backdashing, you're still maintaining the gap and slowly pushing him into the corner.
• If Deathstroke activates his power (at mid/fullscreen), it makes his bullets unblockable for a short period of time, so this is when you want to jump. When you jump you agree to take damage, but some of the bullets won't hit you in a juggled state so you are getting less damage than you otherwise would. You give up your progress by getting hit in the air as it knocks you back, but the trade off is when his power goes on cooldown (be aware of this) you usually get 2 free dashes easily. Just be aware to block the possible df3 because it beats everything you have at close enough range (joy).
• If Deathstroke activates his power from mid-screen or closer, you have the option to dash (if necessary) and punish with j3, 223 xx DF1. It's 30% damage and scores a knockdown. Unfortunately, because Deathstroke is cool, you don't get to mix him up, you get to block his wake-up and then punish again. Blocking and patience.
• Deathstoke can also corner-rush you down and once he scores a solid knock-down he can move in on you and start his mix-up. His b222 string is an overhead mix-up that ends -8 on block, his b1u2 is a low-mixup launcher that is safe on block and if lands can hit confirm easily into a 3231 xx df1 for 24% damage and reset you to midscreen, or a super if he has the bars (though Deathstroke playing a zoning game often won't have full bars due to his df3mb being so solid.
• Once you have dealt with the full-screen zoning game and get to mid-screen, this is where you have a solid ability to deal with his zoning. If he does a machine gun at this middle range (from the range at the start of the match to a little farther than that) you have time to jump in and 3 him. You can sometimes pick up the 223xxarrow equip or 223xxdf1 or 223xbf3mb (unconfirmed) for some damage but if you don't have the arrows I recommend picking up fire arrows. A fire arrow does 8% and scores you a knockdown (which equals free dashes which eliminates a lot of the headache out of the matchup.
• If you do for some reason get caught jumping in on Deathstroke and he plans to start machine gun just as you're coming down, you can use GA's db1 to delay your fall and possibly survive the machine gun. You don't get a punish off this but you won't eat damage and get knocked back either. Still, try not to ever jump in at Deathstroke from any range other than midscreen when he has no meter. Otherwise you'll just get hit, get pushed back, and deal with the horrible vortex all over again.

TL;DR: Deathstroke is a beast at full-screen, but walking forward and crouch-blocking when he fires beats most of his options. Watch for Machine Gun with Meter Burn: the grenade hits overhead. When you advance to midscreen you have more options, you can j3 him on reaction to a machine gun but if he has meter, a good deathstroke will meterburn and knock you back because the grenade will anti-air you. So only jump in on him if he's meterless or you feel he won't react in time. Off the j3, your best punish without arrows is usually 223xdf1. This gives a solid 30% damage and builds some meter. Dash in afterwards and then block his wake-up to keep pressure on. Remember to cancel your pressure strings into equipping your trait. f2d13 xx dd4 is a great mixup that leaves you with 3 fire arrows. Never think you can equip arrows freely, you'll eat sick damage and be forced to fight Deathstroke at range. Your best option is almost always blocking. Most of his shit is really safe but you can punish wiffed machine guns with jumpins if you get away with it, or if you block his b222 overhead mixup (hits high, mid, high) you can score a full punish. When Deathstroke is on top of you, crouch blocking beats most of his options, wait with one finger on the throw tech button and wait for the overhead mixups to stand block. His b1u2 launcher is too safe and fast for him not to use, so if you resort to stand blocking you're gonna get launched and eat constant 20+% combos.
Notice: I am not an amazing player. This game is still new. If there is misinformation, correct me. Let me know. I hate this match-up as much as the rest of us and would love tips on how to deal with it. I'd rate it as a 7-3 matchup in Deathstroke's favour: Green Arrow can't really beat Deathstroke's wake-up game with anything. (I've tried a lot of different things) Deathstroke's zoning is much more powerful at ALL ranges until Green Arrow equips arrows. The green arrows do 1% damage and will trade with Deathstroke's ranged attacks. It's never worth it to fire a green arrow. Green Arrow has to give up combo finishers to get his trait and the only good thing for Green Arrow is his super and ice arrows being good tools to reset and deal heavy (70%+) damage in a single combo. It's still an uphill battle though. Good luck fellow Green Arrows!

 

[NooBooN]

*snip*

Excellent info thanks also I would like to add that poking deathstroke is also an option up close with d1 and sweepin with d3 for mixups with a b2~freeze arrow as well as armoured or regular f3

 

[shaowebb]

Instead of blocking and walking up block and dash up. Green Arrow's Dash is good and leaves time enough to block the next volley immediately after.

 

[Doctor]

Walking up and blocking is the safest option. While between two machine gun volleys there is time enough to quickly dash and block, if he does the Pistols I'm pretty sure it hits you out of the dash. You can definitely sneak in a dash or two on an unsuspecting Deathstroke player, but after one or two times they might wisen up and mix you up with pistols, resulting in guaranteed damage. I don't have the frame data on hand where I am so I can't confirm or deny this, though. Someone can reassure me?
tl;dr represent your dash to make him respect it, but walk up cautiously when he's got his Pistols ready (which can whiff on crouching = more advancement). It's all mind-games, man.

 

[Ryu Gosling]

Okay, so either I'm free to Aquaman or Oliver just matches up horribly to ocean man.

Trident scoop tracks Stinger can't be dashed and trades with arrow. (What a great trade that is -_-)

His normals keep me out all day and even when I'm in I just get served some High priority Trident rush with a glass of salt water.

 

[THTB]

From watching TNL's stream, I can definitely see Doomsday losing to Oliver. If things pan out how I believe, I don't think even with trait Doomsday can really shut down GA's pressure. Being at +3 with a fast enough d1 is HUGE against him. And I'd imagine d1 to arrow is still advantage. Even if it's just even, it's still fast enough to out-d1 him. Would be pretty funny if this was the case...because Doomsday so cheap lol.

 

[fluxxshredder]

A couple tricks i've learned (i main both).....the freeze arrow: waste of time with ds for me. The fire arrow is far better & u get three....they r hard knockdowns and when ur out u can just equip more after the third one...if it connects. I like the idea of punishing him for that a sword flip and the machine gun. I punish the high quick fire with a low fire arrow & machine gun with if i'm mid screen bf3 mb, but i punish the sword flip with b3, b3 for a 20%. Now if my defense/counter zoning is strong enough my fire arrows will keep up with his chip. At half screen i jump shoot down jd4....it's a tough mechanic but once ur good at it....u can really mess his game up. Also he has to be quick fire dependent....machine gun is a mid and it will hit even if ur low blocking. U wanna avoid full screen all together which was mentioned.....but lets say u get in and u manage to get a jump in....i would hit him with a ji3 and then while still in the air do a ex db1. (2 arrows gives another hard knockdown and in the corner its been working wonders for me even with mb. If u can back him into a corner Arrow has a mean corner game. U can bait the wake up and react with db2 or pin him down with ur nj db1....plus his f2 d1 3. And interactables r his zonings weakness.....if u jump over the machine gun and use an interactable u can dodge and cause dmg if he is the right place. I found i like GA better than Ds for zoning b/c with fire arrow i can really dictate the pace of the match. The can't jump in.....they can't dash in....they have to block it...or trade & most ppl we'll just dwn block and i will walk into mid screen cause they will let me. Then jump shoot down cause most ppl don't even know he can do that. (i'm pretty sure it's an overhead but don't quote me on that) I do know it has work for me many of times though. I'm not great either....i think my record is neg right now but i'm stubborn and when i get a good player i grind with him till i at least get one win. Gotta learn somehow right?

 

[Seapeople]

From watching TNL's stream, I can definitely see Doomsday losing to Oliver. If things pan out how I believe, I don't think even with trait Doomsday can really shut down GA's pressure. Being at +3 with a fast enough d1 is HUGE against him. And I'd imagine d1 to arrow is still advantage. Even if it's just even, it's still fast enough to out-d1 him. Would be pretty funny if this was the case...because Doomsday so cheap lol.

D1~arrow is slightly less advantage because you shoot a low arrow, but it's still really good.

 

[csquared587]

Any suggestions vs. Nightwing in Staff Stance? I cant seem to pressure him or zone him. I must be missing something in the matchup, but I can't beat this character.

 

[Ryu Gosling]

Any suggestions vs. Nightwing in Staff Stance? I cant seem to pressure him or zone him. I must be missing something in the matchup, but I can't beat this character.

The more I play. (specifically the nightwing matchup) The more I think Green Arrow is an OD Footsie character. Making Nightwing whiff with his staff leaves him very open for F2 since it has such good range. keep backdashing blocking and poking. Punish everyone of his mistakes.

 

[csquared587]

The more I play. (specifically the nightwing matchup) The more I think Green Arrow is an OD Footsie character. Making Nightwing whiff with his staff leaves him very open for F2 since it has such good range. keep backdashing blocking and poking. Punish everyone of his mistakes.

Yea, I am going to have to load him up and see what is safe for him. I end up getting stuck in a D1, D1,D1, Overhead, D1 type deal anytime i get close. Hard to poke him back with his range and staff speed.

 

[Ryu Gosling]

Yea, I am going to have to load him up and see what is safe for him. I end up getting stuck in a D1, D1,D1, Overhead, D1 type deal anytime i get close. Hard to poke him back with his range and staff speed.

I started writing a Arrow guide on my phone just to help myself remember matchups and stuff. I've just spent maybe half an hour on everyone from the heroes side of the roster so far. He is just a little of what I have on nightwing. Hopefully it'll help out!

************NIGHTWING**************​

Matchup +/-​

6-4 GA​

Overview​

​

Just Block on wake up. ​

Play footsies with his nunchucks. F2D1 ​

​

Block high and be conservative.he is faster. Sit back on his nunchucks strings. They never seem to end. ​

Zone his staff. Block low and punish his slow overheads​

NIghtwing is a pressure momentum, character. Control the space. Zone and punish. No need to RTSD.​

​

Punish This​

His overheads in staff stance that come mid string. D1 is totally safe even on his meter burn

 

[csquared587]

*snip*

Nice, thanks. I might just be panicking and timing my arrow shots wrong against his staff zoning. You have success zoning it out with him?

 

[Ryu Gosling]

Nice, thanks. I might just be panicking and timing my arrow shots wrong against his staff zoning. You have success zoning it out with him?

I spent the day in a lobby of some really good nightwings. They all kept saying how incredibly frustrating it is to get in on Green Arrow. The thing is I never actively try to zone them. Nightwing is strong, because he catches you pushing buttons. His staff overheads can be read with practice.

I don't think anyone in the cast is more free to Haven blasts than Nightwing, because he always wants to be in your ass and to do it he has to commit to some sort of launching staff move to get you if you're in good position. Backdash a lot, Block more and make him respect your D2 and F2's range. Down Haven a lot when he tries to close the distance, naturally this will find you at full screen sometimes. I like to use fire arrows and make him earn his way back in then. I like to play very conservative against nightwing and once they start acting reckless remind them Oliver has some of the best pressure in the game.

Side note, I actually use Jumping down arrows a lot in this matchup lol not as an attack, but as another footsie tool. Also when it's MB the range doubles and causes a knockdown. when you're comfortable with blocking his strings. start jumping some and knocking him down... They'll hate it!

 

[Bus Orez]

How does GE fight raven? I cant seem to do anything vs her at all.

 

[Danger317]

You left out Lex Luther, but I bet it was due to the fact that the match up isn't worth talking about >.>

 

[Erazor]

Okay, so either I'm free to Aquaman or Oliver just matches up horribly to ocean man.

Trident scoop tracks Stinger can't be dashed and trades with arrow. (What a great trade that is -_-)

His normals keep me out all day and even when I'm in I just get served some High priority Trident rush with a glass of salt water.

Aquaman is the character that gives me the most trouble too. Would be great if someone could post his strategies.

 

[GodsLonelyman]

How does GE fight raven? I cant seem to do anything vs her at all.

Rushdown. VS. her you want to stay on her and constantly pressure her. As GA you have plus on block strings and can pressure her for free all day with frametraps. If you corner her she really has no answer for GA's pressure.

 

[GodsLonelyman]

From watching TNL's stream, I can definitely see Doomsday losing to Oliver. If things pan out how I believe, I don't think even with trait Doomsday can really shut down GA's pressure. Being at +3 with a fast enough d1 is HUGE against him. And I'd imagine d1 to arrow is still advantage. Even if it's just even, it's still fast enough to out-d1 him. Would be pretty funny if this was the case...because Doomsday so cheap lol.

I think so too. Doomsday can't divebomb Green Arrow either. A db1 from GA stops the divebomb and you can even follow up with a combo of choice. Once you get them with a DB1, 11~Ice Arrow I guarantee they won't throw them out randomly anymore. GA's db2 also works really well as a footsie tool vs Doomsday.

 

[Seapeople]

Agreed about Nightwing, for now that match feels like advantage.

I'm free to Grundy's Walking Corpse lol, how do you all approach that move? I know you can neutral jump but there's gotta be a better solution. I think it might be possible to cancel a string into savage blast on reaction to get away from him, but that's going to take a lot of practice.