General/Other Worries about GA: Arrow swapping and Traits

[Lyuben]

I have some worries I need to vent. I'm worried about the balance between people whos traits is short term power ups/invulns, like Flash, Superman and so on, vs Green Arrow and others, who have their traits as being further access to specials/combos. It seems like they should make Green Arrow be balanced to be stronger than someone like the Flash, until he uses his trait. I don't think its easy to balance a character trait that is a power up, vs a one that is part of your general move list.

Second, his arrows need to be swapped in order to use. This effectively rules out starting with regular arrows, and going into an ice arrow for your combos. It also means your opponent will read you VERY easily.

See an ice arrow? Hes only got one and he is trying to combo.
See a fire arrow? Hes trying to damage you.
See no arrow? Hes trying to zone.

Just by judging the arrow on your back your opponents will tell what you want to do, since you won't be able to swap arrows mid combo.

If I could go from: spamming normal arrows, get in on someone, use ice arrow and combo, then I'd be happy. But right now, you can't spam normal arrows and combo into an ice arrow easily at all.

Seems to be fairly limited. I hope they at least hide the colour of your arrows, then again, the inputs for the fire arrow are a giveaway, it looks like teabagging.

 

[Rathalos]

Your quiver glows the color of what arrow is charged.

 

[Lyuben]

Your quiver glows the color of what arrow is charged.

I know. Which is a problem since which arrow you have charged has a very specific purpose and if your opponent sees it, they will read your intentions very easily.

 

[theend1114]

See an ice arrow? Hes only got one and he is trying to combo.
See a fire arrow? Hes trying to damage you.
See no arrow? Hes trying to zone.

Just by judging the arrow on your back your opponents will tell what you want to do, since you won't be able to swap arrows mid combo.

If I could go from: spamming normal arrows, get in on someone, use ice arrow and combo, then I'd be happy. But right now, you can't spam normal arrows and combo into an ice arrow easily at all.

Seems to be fairly limited. I hope they at least hide the colour of your arrows, then again, the inputs for the fire arrow are a giveaway, it looks like teabagging.

Hmm i see what you are saying.. IN my opinion it would seem quite OP to allow him access to his ice arrows for every combo. So really ice arrows are the only one that leave you limited. You can still just throw out fire, electric, the standard ones and even the ice ones to throw them off. I think a good time to load the ice is after a good knock down with a guaranteed oki mixup. Dont make it seem limited, when really its a good thing.

 

[DeadlyCreampuff]

I know. Which is a problem since which arrow you have charged has a very specific purpose and if your opponent sees it, they will read your intentions very easily.

I wouldn't worry too much as of yet, as Hector said vs Fnshhm, they are still tweaking and will be doing so up till release and after.If Oliver has troubles it will probably get fixed. Proper usage of the arrows might also be very different than what some expect. If at release it's still an issue then do blow it up loud enough that NRS can hear though, but make sure your not just trying to apply them wrong

If you still need to vent go ahead though, everyones gotta let of steam sometime

 

[Euphoric]

I hoesntly don't know what you're trying to say.

 

[Dizzy]

Is there going to be one of these threads for every character that doesnt have a short-term buff trait?

 

[Lyuben]

Hmm i see what you are saying.. IN my opinion it would seem quite OP to allow him access to his ice arrows for every combo. So really ice arrows are the only one that leave you limited. You can still just throw out fire, electric, the standard ones and even the ice ones to throw them off. I think a good time to load the ice is after a good knock down with a guaranteed oki mixup. Dont make it seem limited, when really its a good thing.

I've watched gameplay and it seems most characters don't have a lot of ways to juggle. Green Arrow seems to have two ways to extend combos beyond: string->special and that is

String->ice/electric arrow->string

Of course, this is without meter that I'm talking about. Meter is needed for extending combos for everyone, which shows a well designed game. And this is to GAs advantage I should add, since from what I've seen, his meter burn on specials isn't to juggle, its to add damage. And that means he will have greater pools of meter, sort of like a sub-zero, he doesn't use meter that much at all. Others like Hal Jordan seem like a Shang Tsung, he needs meter to juggle.

I wouldn't worry too much as of yet, as Hector said vs Fnshhm, they are still tweaking and will be doing so up till release and after.If Oliver has troubles it will probably get fixed. Proper usage of the arrows might also be very different than what some expect. If at release it's still an issue then do blow it up loud enough that NRS can hear though, but make sure your not just trying to apply them wrong

If you still need to vent go ahead though, everyones gotta let of steam sometime

I agree that stuff can change, and I hope it does in his favour of course. I'm just speaking out loud. I also hope they dont go overboard on the projectile immunity with some. Black Adam, Luthor, Bane, and others seem to have too much.

 

[GuamoKun]

Is there going to be one of these threads for every character that doesnt have a short-term buff trait?

No there are going to be more threads complaining about Raven instead of begging for her to be included, characters wishlists: 3 for Black Manta, 9 for Scarecrow and 2 for non-DC characters, asking questions already asked and answered about the gameplay system, and general whining that this isn't MK.

 

[theend1114]

Is there going to be one of these threads for every character that doesnt have a short-term buff trait?

Not from me. Catwoman doesnt have one, and i love her character trait to death

 

[DeadlyCreampuff]

Wait this isn't MK? Damn I am cancelling pre order...

I should have realised they weren't holding back Scorpion for a surprise late reveal :3

 

[Enenra]

Lyuben

I definitely thought you were dead

 

[Lyuben]

Lyuben

I definitely thought you were dead

Man, my xbox broke.

Didn't have a lot of cash so I couldn't even play.

Got a cheap new one for Injustice though. I am HYPED for injustice.

 

[Lyuben]

So, you're basically upset that the game doesn't give you an easymode roadmap for how to use your tools wisely? That kind of mentality is holding fighting games back. The information of what arrow is available is not major information. You still have to actually find clever ways to use it! And if you make a poor choice with it, then that's you'r problem. Just be glad projectiles don't trade because then spam wouldn't save you either.

I know how the tools are used. I don't need a roadmap. I simply don't appreciate my opponent peeking over at me screen and reading my roadmap.

Its a minor issue, my biggest issue is that you can't swap arrows mid combat, but frankly, I can see why. Its for balance, so I buy it. I would have preferred it if it was more in the style of diminishing returns. Instead of making it impossible to go ice into electric or vice versa, they should have made it wiff or just plop your opponent to the ground, instead of extending the combo.

 

[Euphoric]

I know how the tools are used. I don't need a roadmap. I simply don't appreciate my opponent peeking over at me screen and reading my roadmap.

Its a minor issue, my biggest issue is that you can't swap arrows mid combat, but frankly, I can see why. Its for balance, so I buy it. I would have preferred it if it was more in the style of diminishing returns. Instead of making it impossible to go ice into electric or vice versa, they should have made it wiff or just plop your opponent to the ground, instead of extending the combo.

You should send me a copy of Injustice: Gods Among Us.

 

[Lyuben]

You should send me a copy of Injustice: Gods Among Us.

Everything that I've said I've discerned from:
Reveal trailer
Vs Catwoman
Vs Nightwing
30 Minute Dubai AI vs AI videos
Vs Hawkgirl
Vs Superman

We know that there is a physical animation required to swap arrows, it isn't done passively on the fly.
We know that your opponent sees your arrows.

 

[Euphoric]

What is your issue again? Not being able to "spam" arrows because they can see you using your trait?

 

[Lyuben]

What is your issue again? Not being able to "spam" arrows because they can see you using your trait?

In a way. 'Spam' is the wrong word.

If you show your opponent you have the default, they know your strategy is to zone.
If you show them your fire arrow, they know you want them at range, and to catch them out since it does friendly fire.
If you show them your electric/ice arrow, they know you will try to get up close to melee or counter their advance.

Effectively, its putting a sign on your back saying "this is my strategy". I appreciate how GA relies on his arrows for his entire playstyle, but letting your opponent know doesn't seem to be very good.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Youtube character balancing isn't a great idea -- you've got to actually play the game (for more than a couple weeks), see how things stack up, work on tech, get salty, work on it some more, and then make those kinds of decisions.

You know what they say about assumptions..

 

[RYX]

GuamoKun three of the scarecrow threads will be from me

 

[Lyuben]

Youtube character balancing isn't a great idea -- you've got to actually play the game (for more than a couple weeks), see how things stack up, work on tech, get salty, work on it some more, and then make those kinds of decisions.

You know what they say about assumptions..

Of course, I did say I wanted to let off some steam

But to be serious for a second, the things I noticed did not even play a part in the youtube videos, they are simply mechanics I noticed. I'm just extrapolating the implications of how those mechanics work.

 

[Euphoric]

I don't think it's that cut and paste. Point of the arrows is to use them mid combo from what it's been said to extend them.

 

[Lyuben]

I don't think it's that cut and paste. Point of the arrows is to use them mid combo from what it's been said to extend them.

Obviously. Ice and electric are for extending combos, no one doubts that. And his arrows seem to be used for two purposes, zoning, and combos. But the two don't work well together.

The issue at hand is that you can't zone, and prepare for a long combo, and you can't set up for a long combo, while zoning. The two are mutually exclusive when it comes to combos.

Best I can think of is: zoning away, character jumps in, as he is jumping, swap to ice arrow, jump punch/kick into ice arrow or some variation of it. But that is still a lot of hassle for what is in effect, one of the few ways GA can extend and do damaging combos.

 

[Euphoric]

That's why you work your way in and cross up/mix up for those "long" combos.

 

[Lyuben]

That's why you work your way in and cross up/mix up for those "long" combos.

Well, yes. GA looks to be beastly in melee as well, but his strength will always be zoning. And he can't zone while he has his ice arrow slotted in.