Match-up Discussion 2013 Ermac MU Chart

[Seven]

Ok I updated the Freddy vs Ermac MU.

 

[Death]

Looks like a good chart. KL def beats Ermac though. I also think Cage being played at the highest level will pose problems for Ermac. I cant see any ermac player beating Dizzy or Curbo in a set

 

[Seven]

Ok after some discussion with Metzos, I am convinced that Ermac goes 4-6 against Raiden. So I changed it.

 

[Red Reaper]

Looks like a good chart. KL def beats Ermac though. I also think Cage being played at the highest level will pose problems for Ermac. I cant see any ermac player beating Dizzy or Curbo in a set

I disagree.. Lao-Ermac feels 5-5 to me...

 

[Seven]

Looks like a good chart. KL def beats Ermac though. I also think Cage being played at the highest level will pose problems for Ermac. I cant see any ermac player beating Dizzy or Curbo in a set

It's 5-5

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Freddy Krueger MU numbers plz ?

SEVEN TOOK A MASSIVE ACID TRIP HERE

5-5 is thie most RETARDED mu # ever

 

[Qwark28]

SEVEN TOOK A MASSIVE ACID TRIP HERE

5-5 is thie most RETARDED mu # ever

his sig is screaming MARIJUANA POWER

 

[Qwark28]

KL ermac is 6-4

yes, ermac punishes KL hard but so does he

KL is a character with many options to get in while ermac can keep him out with a move that if blocked gives him free entry

fullscreen= KL wins and gets in easy as hell
midscreen= TKP/Fireball is punished
point blank= kl has superior chip damage and meter building while he doesnt need to use much a lot

ermacs fireball dash tkp frametrap cant be used fullscreen

ermac shines when it comes to PUNISHING KL's teleport, bird lao is out of the question, so are teleports used outside zoning punishes with instant tele 3

however, the roll is good because d3 beats 121 and 312

therefore ermac has to guess in something where the risk reward is in laos favour

a lao player whose as lame as an ermac player can beat him, also, after a TKP on block, there are SHITLOADS of mixups KL can do simply because ermac cant avoid a roll after it

laos up close game is much better, builds more chip and meter and also much more psychologically tiring to the defending player.

ermac gives up much more than lao does, he has to be cautious using his zoning tools while KL doesnt REALLY get castrated for not using teleport or low hat

overall, this matchup is a soft 6-4, very winnable but not even.

 

[Red Reaper]

KL ermac is 6-4

yes, ermac punishes KL hard but so does he

KL is a character with many options to get in while ermac can keep him out with a move that if blocked gives him free entry

fullscreen= KL wins and gets in easy as hell
midscreen= TKP/Fireball is punished
point blank= kl has superior chip damage and meter building while he doesnt need to use much a lot

ermacs fireball dash tkp frametrap cant be used fullscreen

ermac shines when it comes to PUNISHING KL's teleport, bird lao is out of the question, so are teleports used outside zoning punishes with instant tele 3

however, the roll is good because d3 beats 121 and 312

therefore ermac has to guess in something where the risk reward is in laos favour

a lao player whose as lame as an ermac player can beat him, also, after a TKP on block, there are SHITLOADS of mixups KL can do simply because ermac cant avoid a roll after it

laos up close game is much better, builds more chip and meter and also much more psychologically tiring to the defending player.

ermac gives up much more than lao does, he has to be cautious using his zoning tools while KL doesnt REALLY get castrated for not using teleport or low hat

overall, this matchup is a soft 6-4, very winnable but not even.

Ermac has the spacing advantage at sweep distance and up klose Lao's fastest normals hit high.

Lao kan punish push but Ermac doesn't need to rely on it. He kan space it out or use it to check him every once in a while. F4 isn't a big deal because it's neutral on hit and minus on block. On block Ermac has the advantage.

I'll try to play against Lao some more to see this match up. I've tried it from Lao's end and it felt very even. (I am not a bird Lao...)

Lao and Ermac are my secondaries now so this is a match up I kan practice on both ends..

 

[Qwark28]

Ermac has the spacing advantage at sweep distance and up klose Lao's fastest normals hit high.

Lao kan punish push but Ermac doesn't need to rely on it. He kan space it out or use it to check him every once in a while. F4 isn't a big deal because it's neutral on hit and minus on block. On block Ermac has the advantage.

I'll try to play against Lao some more to see this match up. I've tried it from Lao's end and it felt very even. (I am not a bird Lao...)

Lao and Ermac are my secondaries now so this is a match up I kan practice on both ends..

i know he doesnt have to rely on it, i play metzos pretty much every week.

F3 IS a big deal because the guessing game is in KLs favour

gonna play the MU tomorrow with him and use bird lao and footsies lao, see what works.

 

[loogie]

ermac shines

shines?

 

[Qwark28]

shines?

yes, ermac pretty, very pretty

 

[Metzos]

i know he doesnt have to rely on it, i play metzos pretty much every week.

F3 IS a big deal because the guessing game is in KLs favour

gonna play the MU tomorrow with him and use bird lao and footsies lao, see what works.

What guessing game ? After a F3, it will either be a spin, a standing 2, or 1, which both can be uppercuted on reaction or down poked. And if you do spin, we all know what happens after that. The thing with this MU is that first you see what KL does and then act. If you play the MU like that its 5-5.

 

[coolwhip]

If 16 Bit is the match-up police, then Dizzy is the false information police. He's in every thread casually correcting every bit of info to the frame... Too awesome.

 

[Death]

If 16 Bit is the match-up police, then Dizzy is the false information police. He's in every thread casually correcting every bit of info to the frame... Too awesome.

Dizzy takes mu police to a whole new level. He doesn't just label the mu he goes in depth with it as well lol

 

[Qwark28]

What guessing game ? After a F3, it will either be a spin, a standing 2, or 1, which both can be uppercuted on reaction or down poked. And if you do spin, we all know what happens after that. The thing with this MU is that first you see what KL does and then act. If you play the MU like that its 5-5.

throw.

you cant uppercut 2 or 1 on reaction, only on a read

exactly, youre gonna poke, thats the guessing game, kl can counterpoke with his D3 and hell be at +10 or +whatever your poke is on block

malaka TETIES tripes leo, otan amolas teties baroufes den se perni sobara o alos

 

[coolwhip]

A 7 frame jab being uppercuted on reaction from point blank? I have my doubts...

 

[Seven]

KL ermac is 6-4

yes, ermac punishes KL hard but so does he

KL is a character with many options to get in while ermac can keep him out with a move that if blocked gives him free entry

fullscreen= KL wins and gets in easy as hell
midscreen= TKP/Fireball is punished
point blank= kl has superior chip damage and meter building while he doesnt need to use much a lot

ermacs fireball dash tkp frametrap cant be used fullscreen

ermac shines when it comes to PUNISHING KL's teleport, bird lao is out of the question, so are teleports used outside zoning punishes with instant tele 3

however, the roll is good because d3 beats 121 and 312

therefore ermac has to guess in something where the risk reward is in laos favour

a lao player whose as lame as an ermac player can beat him, also, after a TKP on block, there are SHITLOADS of mixups KL can do simply because ermac cant avoid a roll after it

laos up close game is much better, builds more chip and meter and also much more psychologically tiring to the defending player.

ermac gives up much more than lao does, he has to be cautious using his zoning tools while KL doesnt REALLY get castrated for not using teleport or low hat

overall, this matchup is a soft 6-4, very winnable but not even.

I can respond to everything here in detail but I would be wasting my time because everything can be argued for and against. So I'm going to go off of experience, I play Forever King a lot and he is the only Lao that goes 5-5 with me, every other Lao loses. I actually used to think it was 6-4 Ermac, anyway if the Ermac player plays well, Lao can't teleport or dive kick, which seriously limits him.

Red Reapor I didn't know you played Ermac

 

[Seven]

SEVEN TOOK A MASSIVE ACID TRIP HERE

5-5 is thie most RETARDED mu # ever

Lol after talking to Metzos and Zaf I changed it to 4-6. I actually don't know anything about Freddy, I just went off of experience. I guess I haven't played the best Freddys.

 

[Red Reaper]

Red Reapor I didn't know you played Ermac

He was my original main.. His Alt fit my name perfectly, with the hood and all. The reason I dropped him was because I felt like he played really lame.

Now though, I've gotten used to playing a little differently and he feels like how I play with Sektor in my tougher match ups.

31 wiffing also used to bug me. At least with Sektor I kould space B3 4 or just do B3 and remain neutral. Now I've learned to not use that move on medium to low hitbox characters outside of jump ins.. etc.

 

[Hellion_96]

I feel online ermac beats lao but offline 5-5. Ermac needs to land a jip to land a string without it getting interrupted by a full combo that being said his air burst and air tele give him some kind of mind game. The only ermacs i have trouble with are the ones that don't respect anything and poke or jump every time i touch them.

 

[Seven]

He was my original main.. His Alt fit my name perfectly, with the hood and all. The reason I dropped him was because I felt like he played really lame.

Now though, I've gotten used to playing a little differently and he feels like how I play with Sektor in my tougher match ups.

31 wiffing also used to bug me. At least with Sektor I kould space B3 4 or just do B3 and remain neutral. Now I've learned to not use that move on medium to low hitbox characters outside of jump ins.. etc.

Lol when I first bought the game, Subzero was my main and Ermac was my secondary, then I realized that Subzero loses to the majority of the cast, so I decided to main Ermac.

 

[Peckapowa]

ermac has nothign vs freddy except freddies hitbox, it could be a 7-3 for freddy
ive always felt liu kang wins 6-4 because he actually wins the zoning battle fullscreen and u can't really teleport the high projectile on reaction, alteast reliably, plus liu kang gets in easily after blocked push with f12

 

[Seven]

ermac has nothign vs freddy except freddies hitbox, it could be a 7-3 for freddy
ive always felt liu kang wins 6-4 because he actually wins the zoning battle fullscreen and u can't really teleport the high projectile on reaction, alteast reliably, plus liu kang gets in easily after blocked push with f12

Well thank you for that, if I ever come across a Freddy in a tournament and I lose, I'll switch to Liu Kang.

 

[Peckapowa]

Seven m2dave

Punishing the TKP with ground spike is not a 1 or 2 frame window. If its a special move you can buffer it during blockstun. This allows the window to be much larger than if it were to be a 13 frame normal.

As far as JC vs Ermac. Its a divide between 5-5 and 4-6, and to be honest I don't really care. It doesn't change how the match is played or the tools involved. Saying numbers means nothing. I don't really have anything to say about it numbers-wise that hasn't been said already.

cage has a low hitbox, this could be a more divisive factor