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Tournament Viable Characters for 2013

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
Lemme know your boy's name and when he enters a tournament doing those AA resets of his

1:01
4:53

Those are air to airs though, so maybe I got the 2 confused. Still, if you know the height they have to be then you have to make the decision as the Smoke player of whether to go for it or not. Still doesnt belong in MU Discussion.
 

1:01
4:53

Those are air to airs though, so maybe I got the 2 confused. Still, if you know the height they have to be then you have to make the decision as the Smoke player of whether to go for it or not. Still doesnt belong in MU Discussion.
wtf? Neither of those are resets. Those are just air to airs linked into a smoke bomb.
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
How have you proven anything? Europe does not have representatives for all characters, especially at the highest level. And if you have brought this character into the spotlight, then why does almost nobody in the US use him? You make some sound arguments occasionally, but I really just don't get how you think that you have explored this character to the max when you don't play against the highest level of competition.

US does not have strong representatives for Ermac as well, besides Pboard (not counting zaf cause he is Canadian and not counting Big D cause he does not compete in tournaments anymore if i remember correctly). I ve been proven right about MU's when people were saying Ermac loses them, to be, in fact, even MU's as i was saying long ago (see JC, QC, Mileena and Jax, just to name some). Just see what Detroit did to CD jr in the finals of MLG. He almost won against his seasoned Jax with his two weeks Ermac. Dizzy agreed with me that Ermac - JC is actually an even MU, after a conversation we had, while everyone at that time was slandering Foxy saying that Ermac Cage is 6-4 Cage. Shujinky was saying Ermac - QC is 6-4 Quan or at best an even MU, completely disregarding that my training partner is one of the best, if not the best QC of the world along with Soup. After a little while, hey ! I was right again. And these were results of countless matches i played, not theory fighting. Why nobody in the US uses Ermac ? Simple. Because they dont believe in other scenes, they think they know everything about every character in the game, when in fact they dont. Thats my two cents (this does not go to all US players ofc). I dont boast Cowboy, many people here can tell you that, but when i see posts saying US has the best Ermac players, completely disregarding what i have been offering for this character for the past 2 years, i get pissed. Seriously. Ermac didnt have a serious representation until the late 12's. Why ? Because no one bothered to explore him at all. All i was hearing was, "he has no armor, he sucks, his zoning is average it sucks, his down pokes are punishable, he doesnt have pressure etc etc". The reason NRS didnt give him armor is because the above stated are the exact opposite tbh. Just because he doesnt have armor doesnt mean he sucks, his zoning is unique and the way he controls the space is scary, his pressure is a bit gimmicky but highly rewarding his d3 is not so easily punishable as many people tend to believe and he has one of the best throws in the game along with his stupid throw range. The recovery d3 has on block and on whiff is stupid (based on some tests i ve been doing i believe Somberness's frame data on Ermac's d3 on block may be wrong), it lowers his hit box etc. His AA standing has stupid range and can lead to 40% dmg AA combo etc. And i still cant believe that everyone forgets the fact that he can get 30+% dmg combos from, pretty much, everywhere, making pretty much the use of bars useless, except for breaker or the finishing blow, making him one of the best punishers in the game without the use of meter. I never said Ermac was godlike. I just said dont underestimate what he can do, thats all.


Don't even bother saying this to him. I've given up long ago. He still thinks he's the ermac everyone needs to fight and until we fight him we haven't experienced a top ermac when there's at least 5 more accomplished ermac a that everyone has fought...

I really dont know what is your problem seriously man. You ve given up what ? Discussing ? You ve never even done that. All you were doing was coming into the Ermac forum and saying how Ermac goes even or loses to Mileena (another MU i was proven right) and how Sonya destroys Ermac without even saying why. As for your next sentence.... I m not even gonna go there. Seriously. Just because i dont have the means to travel to the US and prove my point to you and a couple of other players over there, doesnt mean i cannot express my opinion and THAT doesnt give you the right to insult me, or my scene, putting words in my mouth and downgrading me as a player.
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
I personally think Freddy is just as bad as Sonya dude, all he has to do is teleport back and toss dem gloves, and that is it. Reptile can't duck and elbow dash like he can for most characters, he gets blown up here. Which means he has to jump and fred blows that shit up too. His footsies are better, and he gets way more damage, half of which is unbreakable, and that puts you back to full screen. You have to burn meter like crazy to get in. I won't argue Kenshi because I can see how people might think it is 5-5. I'm also not disagreeing with going 4-6 against Kenshi/Kabal being a bad thing, I'm just saying that even though he does well against those two, the rest of the top 5 along with maybe the next 1 or two down the list give him so much trouble I don't see how it makes a difference. The last time this character made a top 8 was in Dallas last year. Showtime did it at Raleigh and I did as well at Summer Jam, but BOTH of us didn't play Reptile exclusively. He needs help in order to win tournies plain and simple.
Kenshi reptile is 6-4 kenshi imo
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
How have you proven anything? Europe does not have representatives for all characters, especially at the highest level. And if you have brought this character into the spotlight, then why does almost nobody in the US use him? You make some sound arguments occasionally, but I really just don't get how you think that you have explored this character to the max when you don't play against the highest level of competition.
Don't even bother saying this to him. I've given up long ago. He still thinks he's the ermac everyone needs to fight and until we fight him we haven't experienced a top ermac when there's at least 5 more accomplished ermac a that everyone has fought...
Dudes ERMaC is extremelllllllllllllllllly tournament viable
















......in 2011
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
I'm glad ppl are finally seeing the light in the "6" bad mus kenshi supposedly has and seeing these bad mus becoming advantage lol

Maybe kabal/kenshi is even. Was Detroit right about that mu all along?
Kenshi kabal is 5-5

I've said this since November 2012
And I'm the only one who says Lao is 5-5
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
US does not have strong representatives for Ermac as well, besides Pboard (not counting zaf cause he is Canadian and not counting Big D cause he does not compete in tournaments anymore if i remember correctly). I ve been proven right about MU's when people were saying Ermac loses them, to be, in fact, even MU's as i was saying long ago (see JC, QC, Mileena and Jax, just to name some). Just see what Detroit did to CD jr in the finals of MLG. He almost won against his seasoned Jax with his two weeks Ermac. Dizzy agreed with me that Ermac - JC is actually an even MU, after a conversation we had, while everyone at that time was slandering Foxy saying that Ermac Cage is 6-4 Cage. Shujinky was saying Ermac - QC is 6-4 Quan or at best an even MU, completely disregarding that my training partner is one of the best, if not the best QC of the world along with Soup. After a little while, hey ! I was right again. And these were results of countless matches i played, not theory fighting. Why nobody in the US uses Ermac ? Simple. Because they dont believe in other scenes, they think they know everything about every character in the game, when in fact they dont. Thats my two cents (this does not go to all US players ofc). I dont boast Cowboy, many people here can tell you that, but when i see posts saying US has the best Ermac players, completely disregarding what i have been offering for this character for the past 2 years, i get pissed. Seriously. Ermac didnt have a serious representation until the late 12's. Why ? Because no one bothered to explore him at all. All i was hearing was, "he has no armor, he sucks, his zoning is average it sucks, his down pokes are punishable, he doesnt have pressure etc etc". The reason NRS didnt give him armor is because the above stated are the exact opposite tbh. Just because he doesnt have armor doesnt mean he sucks, his zoning is unique and the way he controls the space is scary, his pressure is a bit gimmicky but highly rewarding his d3 is not so easily punishable as many people tend to believe and he has one of the best throws in the game along with his stupid throw range. The recovery d3 has on block and on whiff is stupid (based on some tests i ve been doing i believe Somberness's frame data on Ermac's d3 on block may be wrong), it lowers his hit box etc. His AA standing has stupid range and can lead to 40% dmg AA combo etc. And i still cant believe that everyone forgets the fact that he can get 30+% dmg combos from, pretty much, everywhere, making pretty much the use of bars useless, except for breaker or the finishing blow, making him one of the best punishers in the game without the use of meter. I never said Ermac was godlike. I just said dont underestimate what he can do, thats all.





I really dont know what is your problem seriously man. You ve given up what ? Discussing ? You ve never even done that. All you were doing was coming into the Ermac forum and saying how Ermac goes even or loses to Mileena (another MU i was proven right) and how Sonya destroys Ermac without even saying why. As for your next sentence.... I m not even gonna go there. Seriously. Just because i dont have the means to travel to the US and prove my point to you and a couple of other players over there, doesnt mean i cannot express my opinion and THAT doesnt give you the right to insult me, or my scene, putting words in my mouth and downgrading me as a player.
re malaka gia paragrafous den emathes sto dimotiko? pios malakas tha katsi na to diabasi to tixos tis kinas?

on topic, ermac has very few representatives and even less MAINS, just sayin
 

EGP Wonder_Chef

Official Quan Chi Nerf Demander™
I ve been proven right about MU's when people were saying Ermac loses them, to be, in fact, even MU's as i was saying long ago (see JC, QC, Mileena and Jax, just to name some)
I think it's a bit much to say that you were "proven right" about any of those matchups.

To begin with, you can't "prove" a matchup to begin with. With new tech and playstyles emerging every day, matchups easily change on the daily.


Second, even if you could prove matchups, I'm not sure how any of those were proven.

Jax vs Ermac in top matchups has still been won more by Jax than Ermac.

I don't even remember an Ermac beating a Cage at top level.

I don't know about Mileena honestly.

You can't prove just Quan Chi off of Dink playing the Ermac gauntlet after hours in a hotel room at SCR. Dink is unfortunately another player that has to use online for a lot of his matchups, and getting beaten in one exhibition match against great players with tons of tournament experience doesn't say anything. I mean do remember that he lost to every Lao in that gauntlet, but he beat one of them in tournament.
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
I think it's a bit much to say that you were "proven right" about any of those matchups.

To begin with, you can't "prove" a matchup to begin with. With new tech and playstyles emerging every day, matchups easily change on the daily.


Second, even if you could prove matchups, I'm not sure how any of those were proven.

Jax vs Ermac in top matchups has still been won more by Jax than Ermac.

I don't even remember an Ermac beating a Cage at top level.

I don't know about Mileena honestly.

You can't prove just Quan Chi off of Dink playing the Ermac gauntlet after hours in a hotel room at SCR. Dink is unfortunately another player that has to use online for a lot of his matchups, and getting beaten in one exhibition match against great players with tons of tournament experience doesn't say anything. I mean do remember that he lost to every Lao in that gauntlet, but he beat one of them in tournament.
Dink talked for months about how bad uan beat Ermac, said he would beat every Ermac at SCR, and lost to all of them. How does that not at least prove that it isnt as bad as he thought?
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
I think it's a bit much to say that you were "proven right" about any of those matchups.

To begin with, you can't "prove" a matchup to begin with. With new tech and playstyles emerging every day, matchups easily change on the daily.


Second, even if you could prove matchups, I'm not sure how any of those were proven.

Jax vs Ermac in top matchups has still been won more by Jax than Ermac.

I don't even remember an Ermac beating a Cage at top level.

I don't know about Mileena honestly.

You can't prove just Quan Chi off of Dink playing the Ermac gauntlet after hours in a hotel room at SCR. Dink is unfortunately another player that has to use online for a lot of his matchups, and getting beaten in one exhibition match against great players with tons of tournament experience doesn't say anything. I mean do remember that he lost to every Lao in that gauntlet, but he beat one of them in tournament.
Jax vs Ermac was never played at high lvl besides Detroit and jr.

Tbh with you i havent seen that MU in the US very much. If you respect Foxy as a top JC player, then ask him about the particular MU. He will say to you the same thing because he has played me. We pretty much grinded the particular MU back in 2k11 and Cage's playstyle and strategies for the particular MU, havent changed that much since then.

Ermac vs Mileena is 6 - 4 Ermac and no one is going to change my mind about that one.

I presented facts and footage on Dink and all he did was to say "ok but still Ermac sucks and doesnt win the MU". I could understand if he was trolling, but he was saying this openly and seriously. So let me get this straight. Dink was considered, by some, at a point the QC of the world. If i dont prove myself right by correcting the proclaimed best QC, then how am i going to judge the MU ? And i still say that Hidan was completely disregarded about the particular MU despite me and him having grinded it.

Finally i agree with you that techs and strategies are found every day, but that applies for both sides. I will not stand idle and listen to some divas in this site downgrade me, or my scene just because they think they know everything about every character in the game, and are ignorant about other scenes out there and especially a character i was devoted to since day 1 and exposed so much about him. That, i will not accept.

Post edited.
 

EGP Wonder_Chef

Official Quan Chi Nerf Demander™
Dink talked for months about how bad uan beat Ermac, said he would beat every Ermac at SCR, and lost to all of them. How does that not at least prove that it isnt as bad as he thought?
Dink could not have been playing at full potential, perhaps he didn't know the matchup as fully as he thought, or maybe he was just outplayed because people like Pboard are insane can could probably win with whatever character they want.

And even still, it would only show that Dink isn't quite as good in the matchup as he thought he was, it in no way proves anything about a matchup.

Have you not heard of Seven?
+1
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Dink could not have been playing at full potential, perhaps he didn't know the matchup as fully as he thought, or maybe he was just outplayed

And even still, it would only show that Dink isn't quite as good in the matchup as he thought he was, it in no way proves anything about a matchup.
what a wonderful post

it says ppl should be good at the matchup to show it effectively at a high lvl

not like Hidan, arguably the best QC along with Soup, plays Metzos every week.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
So most players who have MK9 as their first FG and go to tourneys are trusted

yet the players who play FGs for over 10 years offline every damn week and are top tier in all games they play are just blown off as if they cant see how good or bad a character is, opposing or not.
 

GGA Wafflez

the kid
Smoke's not viable

Liu Kang 5-5
Kung Lao 3.5/6.5
Johnny Cage 4/6
Mileena 5-5
Cyrax 4-6
Sonya Blade 3-7
Jax 4-6
Shang Tsung 6-4
Kabal 3-7
Kitana 5-5
Kenshi 5-5
Freddy Krueger 6-4
Sektor 5-5
Reptile 5-5
Raiden 5-5
Skarlet 4-6

Smoke cannot compete at the highest possible level without an alt because he loses so badly to kabal, cage, sonya, lao, and jax. A dual-mainer can make good use of him but alone he is not usable.

who cares that he beats or goes even with a lot of the top tiers? He loses to some of the most used tournament characters out there and people are about to say he's viable outside of miracle resets? gtfo
Wonder twin powers activate! form of.... intelligent thoerycrafters, philosophers and smoke players.