Dealing With the Runaway Problem, and Growing Our Sport

[CrimsonShadow]

Lately, I've been struck with the fact that we have a fairly large obstacle in the way of growing our community and sport. I want to see us win, as a whole; but it seems as if the 2 major ways of dealing with issues in this community, even among respected players, are the following:

1) Run away or quit.

Don't like a tournament, region, team, stream show? Quit it. Announce that you're never coming back. That you won't support it.

2) Beef

Have an issue? Don't settle it -- make it as big as it can possibly be. Blow it up on twitch, facebook, twitter, on forums, and generally any way possible that doesn't involve sitting down behind closed doors and having a man-to-man discussion.

Forget PMs, phone calls, and face-to-faces. Generate drama.

---------

Now people are going to say, "People will be people. Gamers will be gamers". While there's some truth to that, and the world will never be perfect, here's the crux of the issue: we are at a point for this sport, where things have the potential to be much bigger than they are. Numbers are rising, dollar amounts are growing up, and interest in esports is bigger than it's ever been.

But here's the thing; in order for us, and MK/IGAU/fighting games in particular, to make it to the next level, people are going to have to treat this seriously as a sport and a business, rather than a schoolyard scrap. Because it's extremely hard to convince serious organizations to put serious amounts of money and reputation behind our communities and players, when said players and communities can't keep themselves together in a way that'd represent said businesses well.

Sponsorships are great; major-esports backing is great; ad money and all kinds of other things are great. But with that comes responsibility. I don't bring this up to complain; but because I really love these games, the players, and the community, and I want nothing more than to see us all get to the next level.

So what do I suggest? At least this; if you have an issue with someone's show, event, website, etc.. Handle it in a way that puts something constructive into this community; rather than a way that tears things down and splits us all apart. If you have issues, handle them as a man (or woman) to a man; not like a child screaming for attention.

The stronger we make our community and its resources, the farther we can go. The weaker and more divided we are, the less benefits we will see. In order to take things to the next level, we need to work together.

I'm willing to do my part; but we need as many as we can get. I'm opening the topic for serious discussion (read: constructive, or it'll be removed). What do you guys think?

THTB GGA Dizzy GGA 16 Bit J360 GamerBlake90 A F0xy Grampa

 

[THTB]

Not trying to be a total downer, but I, for one, was surprised at how much MLG supported us last year because of how bad things were getting. We all know that MLG reps do have forum accounts, so I'd be more surprised that they didn't see at least TWO incidents.

If we want our games to get any more exposure than it already does, we have got to learn to conduct ourselves. No one is saying be brainless drones (hell the flair our players have in-tournament is absolutely beautiful...looks like some NFL shit when you see MIT or DJT pull out the bernie on stage after a match is won), but if you got problems with someone, don't be so quick to out people right on the forums. Do that shit in private. It doesn't involve anyone else but you and that particular person...putting it out there for everyone to see doesn't really do any sort of good.

We won't be taken seriously until we can learn to present ourselves as such.

 

[Lazoruz]

@ OP Well stated sir. However there are a few things to take into consideration.
First, the "Drama..aka Hype" is what makes ESports so popular. Its' the MTV generation for the most part. I wouldn't count that part out because as advertisers that's what they want to see. More people viewing due to what ever reason.

Second, Looking at it from a business PoV is the right way to go about it but you need to find a "Happy Medium" with issue one. Perhaps going behind closed doors and organizing "Hype" matches is the way to draw crowds, but actually having "Beefs" settled and making money from the event is a two edged sword. On the one hand you can draw a lot of advertising and sponsorships. On the other hand you can make enemies with players/organizers/websites that in retrospect you may actually need as allies in the future.

So, you see its' a fine line we draw in the sand, here at ESports and the FGC in general. But, I do understand the point you were shooting for and agree. Its' just that it will be hard (Very Hard) to actually make an entire community come together like that to promote growth. Its' a nice and beautiful thought but in a realism view it will be almost impossible to make personalities, points of interest and business deals see eye to eye.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

@ OP Well stated sir. However there are a few things to take into consideration.
First, the "Drama..aka Hype" is what makes ESports so popular. Its' the MTV generation for the most part. I wouldn't count that part out because as advertisers that's what they want to see. More people viewing due to what ever reason.

Yup -- I know what you mean, 100%. It's just that there's a clear line between "I'm going to blow X players up at [insert tournament], get ready" which generates positive hype and and "F this person, I'm never going to any of their events, F the whole coast, I'm boycotting XYZ, our forum is the only good one, etc".

Example: all the player rivalry going into Anaheim was just excitement and ended up being love in the end; which is a far cry from people practically refusing to talk to each other, avoiding each other, insulting each other in a personal way that has nothing to do with upcoming matches, and everyone running to their own corners.

There's nothing wrong with some good-natured hype and rivalry -- we just have to make sure that at the end of it all, we're still coming together to support each other as a community and a family.

 

[16 Bit]

TYM is the connective tissue of the community and this site is basically dead, almost all the top players driven away by the community and staff here. Ironically from the people I know there's one thing they all agree on: nobody cares and discussing serious information and strategy is a waste of time.

 

[RYX]

i care. ;_;

 

[Killphil]

TYM is the connective tissue of the community and this site is basically dead, almost all the top players driven away by the community and staff here. Ironically from the people I know there's one thing they all agree on: nobody cares and discussing serious information and strategy is a waste of time.

Damn, make it sound like we lynched you guys. The last time I discussed anything seriously I got blown up for saying a -12 move is punishable. But that's neither here nor there, what I'd like to know is what EXACTLY "drove" you guys off? It really seems like the top players have serious drama issues with one another and then blame all their bs on everyone at tym while saying "f you all! I'm going to leave because you all want me too!". Lbsh, how many troll posts truly affect you guys? Its on every forum. We are grown ass men(or women). If you guys have a problem with people instead of turning it into a joke or being passive aggressive about it, why not just confront the person about it?

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

The people who left simply took their ball and went home.
No one owns anything they do. Everyone is a 13 year old girl fighting another 13 year old girl.

There is no responsibility or accountability.

 

[xenogorgeous]

If a community is not strong enough to live by itself without depending of a dozen of top players that just supposed make their choice to gtfo, so, it's a dead beaten dog community anyway .... and deserves to fade away.

Otherwise, if people right here don't care and are not fully depending from info coming from top players, the community (MK9, IGAU or both together) can have tools to keeping walk no matter what

People take loss in a FG too much serious, and build childish and ridiculous drama around it, so, it's just time to fucking grow up and care less about losing, and focusing more in the technical aspects of FG games. And above all, having fun with the game, in the very first place as main goal of taking part of majors ..... winning is an option, but not necessary , the very guaranteed one .... and loss should be faced as lesson, always.

Competitive scene = if someone win, others have to lose, from time to time. Accept it and carry on

 

[STORMS]

To my knowledge, when several top players stopped posting... the dust essentially settled and people were breathing much better. There have even been multiple comments made about how little "drama" there has been. All of the discussion has been regarding either Mortal Kombat or Injustice.

Maybe some simply needed a break from it all? Regardless, our staff for the most part is very active and we're always striving to improve. So if we fucked up in the past... chances are, we've already made the appropriate changes.

 

[Juggs]

TYM is the connective tissue of the community and this site is basically dead, almost all the top players driven away by the community and staff here. Ironically from the people I know there's one thing they all agree on: nobody cares and discussing serious information and strategy is a waste of time.

This site isn't even close to being "dead". If you mean the MK9 discussions are basically dead, well that's to be expected. A new NRS game is coming out so most people are excited and hype for it and talking about it. The top players were driven away by themselves. If they truly had a problem with the staff or how something was handled or had a problem with "the community" they should have talked to someone of the staff about it. Just peacing out because you don't get your way is no better than when children pitch a fit because they don't get their way. Someone on the staff is almost always available, yet I'm pretty sure none of them were contacted.

You can play this arbitrary blame game all you want. It's way easier to blame it on the community and staff than to take responsibility, I get that. Both are a group of people, no one is specifically blamed. But to assert that the staff and/or the community drove away top players is not only incredibly arrogant, it's horribly inaccurate. If the "top players" really cared about the community and think of TYM as the connective tissue, would they not have made some kind of attempt to heal open wounds? And if you're referring to the staff not letting top players get away with shit just because they're top players, well I don't know what to tell you.

 

[16 Bit]

I just said what I hear behind the scenes all the time. Stay in denial, it's whatever.

 

[RYX]

we're gonna have new top players come injustice hopefully, let's pray they're not a bunch of drama queens and divas this time, eh?

 

[KingHippo]

It could be me, but when I see topics such as one where the TC doesn't consider a throw is a punish to a move and any matchup discussion being extremely moderated to the point of deletion for the slightest bit of hostility, I can't see a lot of reasons to stick around. Ignorant things being said with punishment for telling someone they're ignorant.

 

[GamerBlake90]

TYM is the connective tissue of the community and this site is basically dead, almost all the top players driven away by the community and staff here. Ironically from the people I know there's one thing they all agree on: nobody cares and discussing serious information and strategy is a waste of time.

Don't you train quite often with GGA Dizzy at your home? And with the rest of the GGA crew at that? Isn't discussion on strategies part of the whole training agenda you guys likely have? So who are you to say that discussing such things is a waste of time, when the reality is that it's how all players, pro and learners alike, develop themselves in the competitive scene? Whether people are mistaken in their views on match-ups, character-specific tactics, frame data, etc. isn't the point nor should they be getting blown up for that...because they learn through experience. Even I change my views on some things over time.

That was the whole idea behind TYM: to grow and support our players, not support a drama hub for people to single others out and cast stones at them. Blaming other people for such problems solves nothing, either. I'm all for competitive drama and hype - Hell, I bleed it whenever I'm in tournaments - but if the line between a friendly rivalry and heated feud becomes blurry, it completely detracts from the whole point of being a competitor.

And the comment about this site being dead couldn't be further from the truth.

I just said what I hear behind the scenes all the time. Stay in denial, it's whatever.

That right there is yet another problem: you believe what the crowd has to say? Formulate your own opinions with your own experiences, don't base it off the words of everyone else. Besides that, if you have a problem with how things are run here, tell it to our faces, preferably via PM. We are not psychic, we cannot read your minds and be expected to know everything. We want to evolve this site and our community for the better, and if you don't think that's the case, then there's nothing more I can tell you.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

If everyone cools down, it's possible to have a reasonable discussion about this. If there are issues, lets talk about them.

My intention wasn't to start or stir a war; just to get people to come to the table and talk about how they feel, and what bothers them, without firing shots from behind their sandbags or simply disappearing.

To me this is bigger than TYM and involves the whole network of events, services, and people that make up the community. How you choose to express displeasure can mean the difference between strengthening a bond and destroying a relationship.

 

[Faded Dreams V]

Don't you train quite often with GGA Dizzy at your home? And with the rest of the GGA crew at that? Isn't discussion on strategies part of the whole training agenda you guys likely have? So who are you to say that discussing such things is a waste of time, when the reality is that it's how all players, pro and learners alike, develop themselves in the competitive scene? Whether people are mistaken in their views on match-ups, character-specific tactics, frame data, etc. isn't the point nor should they be getting blown up for that...because they learn through experience. Even I change my views on some things over time.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he meant those "behind-the-scenes" players believe it's a waste of time discussing anything here because of all the "bullshit" (heavy moderation, flames/arguments, disagreements to what they believe is fact, etc) that occurs when they do.

 

[GamerBlake90]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he meant those "behind-the-scenes" players believe it's a waste of time discussing anything here because of all the "bullshit" (heavy moderation, flames/arguments, disagreements to what they believe is fact, etc) that occurs when they do.

Disagreements are one thing. It's to be expected.

Flames/arguments? No. Not tolerated here. We do all we can to clear that out. If they consider that "heavy moderation," it is what it is.

 

[SPLED0R]

this site is supposed to be for noobs and scrubs like me to level up and then leave when or if we become pros... really no reason for a pro to stick around when random213 can give input and advice on threads like "how do i further myself as a player"... its the same thing on srk... every1 and there sister is an expert on this forum...

 

[THTB]

TYM is the connective tissue of the community and this site is basically dead, almost all the top players driven away by the community and staff here. Ironically from the people I know there's one thing they all agree on: nobody cares and discussing serious information and strategy is a waste of time.

Pretty much proved what a lot of top players loved to see. Sad.

 

[Killphil]

this site is supposed to be for noobs and scrubs like me to level up and then leave when or if we become pros... really no reason for a pro to stick around when random213 can give input and advice on threads like "how do i further myself as a player"... its the same thing on srk... every1 and there sister is an expert on this forum...

I disagree. I would actually prefer if the top level players stuck around providing they don't stir up trouble and the rest of us follow suit. Does that mean I can't think for myself? No. But they are top players for a reason, and occasionally really neat and cool stuff is given by a top player. This wasn't on tym, but Pig teaching people about certain aspects of the game on his stream was really quite an experience. Having owned the game since it launched the stuff he was showing was completely new to me. Perhaps I missed some of the stuff in the forums, yes, but it doesn't help when everyone is being bitter and resentful towards one another here.

Spoiler

 

[Seapeople]

I think part of the problem is lots of people act like the things they say are undeniable facts (or at least come across that way). This is where normal discussions turn into heated arguments & theory fighting. I mean even if you know you're right there's always room for error, so you could at least try to be understanding of the other people's opinions.

We've probably all been guilty of this at some point, whether you're a top player or random poster. Closed-mindedness in my opinion is one of the biggest reasons people don't like to post in matchup discussions, or even post at all.

 

[Justice]

This site isn't even close to being "dead". If you mean the MK9 discussions are basically dead, well that's to be expected. A new NRS game is coming out so most people are excited and hype for it and talking about it. The top players were driven away by themselves. If they truly had a problem with the staff or how something was handled or had a problem with "the community" they should have talked to someone of the staff about it. Just peacing out because you don't get your way is no better than when children pitch a fit because they don't get their way. Someone on the staff is almost always available, yet I'm pretty sure none of them were contacted.

You can play this arbitrary blame game all you want. It's way easier to blame it on the community and staff than to take responsibility, I get that. Both are a group of people, no one is specifically blamed. But to assert that the staff and/or the community drove away top players is not only incredibly arrogant, it's horribly inaccurate. If the "top players" really cared about the community and think of TYM as the connective tissue, would they not have made some kind of attempt to heal open wounds? And if you're referring to the staff not letting top players get away with shit just because they're top players, well I don't know what to tell you.

The only thing I'll say about this is, we're all working hard to grow our numbers and keep Mortal Kombat alive. We are at EVO for an unprecedented third time in a row. Am I the only one that sees a problem with people not discussing tech and exploring new facets of the game? How are we supposed to keep interest if we show the same shit from EVO '12 or '11? Also, aren't we kind of shooting ourselves in the foot by switching our focus to Injustice and leaving MK "in the dust"?

As far as mentality goes, how often have we seen posts like "Well, if REO, Pig, Maxter, etc. all show up to a tournament, why should I go and pad their winnings?" It's because we're all competative. We all want to win and think we can. It all comes from ego. You need a certain amount of ego to have the chutzpah to walk up to a top player and believe that you can beat them. It's that same ego that you see on forums with call-outs and such. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's when it starts getting personal and death threats and such start happening that hype becomes drama and counter-productive. Arguments like "Well, I placed X at such-and-such tournament so your opinion is invalid" is useless and divisive. People really need to learn the old "When you're taking care of #1, do't forget about #2" rule.

 

[SPLED0R]

snip

what benefit is there for a pro player on a level up forum? there was a blog by justin wong from way back on the direction srk went with its community shift where justin said there is now a point where you reach a certain level and that is when the forum will hold you back... once upon a time srk had tons of top players actively posting and sharing strats until all the scrubs and noob favortism took over that drew them off... tym is going down the same path now and dont be suprised if in injustice half of the top 16 at majors are not even active on tym.... this happens to all sites that cater to number advertising & popular traffic flow over top players...

 

[RYX]

The benefit is to help the community while occasionally receiving help and new tech yourself.

Isn't that generally the point of a video game community?