Question Do you use D1~spear as a poke?

[Scoot Magee]

If you're at Evo, play me, try this and I will massacre you beyond belief. I'll make you drop Scorpion.

That's all, if you're playing in tournament, and attempt something like this, you're asking to lose. It's not legitimate, its desperation tactics.

Technically he or any scorpion player for that matter would get destroyed when cage gets in regardless of if he tries d1 spear or not. The fact that the option will make you do something else after a d1 to react to it gives scorpion a chance to do something besides eat block damage and let you build meter.

In other words, in order to massacre him you would have to sit and wait for him to spear after a d1 which means you're not attacking. Obviously if he does throw a spear when you bait it he will get blown up but it's just to keep you honest when scorpion does manage to poke out with d1.

Honestly I don't use it, I'd rather use d1 takedown because scorpion has a chance to reset the momentum after the knockdown but it can stop you from rushing right in with f3 after being hit by d1. If you are respecting the spear option you're limited to doing low attacks or neutral crouch. In this case if the scorpion player doesn't throw a spear he has a chance to do something else because d3 and d1 on block will leave cage negative.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Technically he or any scorpion player for that meter would get destroyed when cage gets in regardless of if he tries d1 spear or not. The fact that the option will make you do something else after a d1 to react to it gives scorpion a chance to do something besides eat block damage and let you build meter.

In other words, in order to massacre him you would have to sit and wait for him to spear after a d1 which means you're not attacking. Obviously if he does throw a spear when you bait it he will get blown up but it's just to keep you honest when scorpion does manage to poke out with d1.

Can't D1 a bird Lao, not possible

 

[Scoot Magee]

Can't D1 a bird Lao, not possible

Lol I thought we were talking cage match up here. Lao match up is played a lot different.

 

[94 Slayer]

It's good for fighting Cage and Jax players.

 

[STRYKIE]

Foxy's at it again. He is all-knowing people. We couldn't possibly be right about anything.

You in the respect of "we" certainly wasn't right about convincing yourselves that PL only won EVO 2011 with Kung Lao because of 2,4,low hat or that REO must be trolling everytime he doesn't use Kabal.

Now I haven't played F0xy since before EVO but I vouch personally that he does play the Cage/Scorp match very honestly and doesn't take anything for granted, he utilizes his own fundamentals based on how you approach the matchup, regardless of the character you use. Granted there's alot of stuff I've gone over with a fine tooth comb since then and it's not really relevant by today's metagame, but he's educated enough to give an opinion on this.

And for clarity's sake, if you want me to be brutally honest and think I'm only saying this out of courtesy of playing with him at PND, I still think the mistakes he made at EVO, he could've made on the best of days regardless of everything else he had to put up with over that weekend. I don't get Slips's issue with the dude, or vice versa, I don't have a problem with either of them, as I'm sure they haven't with me, so whatever, and by all means, let's put this behind us and carry on with the thread.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

You in the respect of "we" certainly wasn't right about convincing yourselves that PL only won EVO 2011 with Kung Lao because of 2,4,low hat or that REO must be trolling everytime he doesn't use Kabal.

Now I haven't played F0xy since before EVO but I vouch personally that he does play the Cage/Scorp match very honestly and doesn't take anything for granted, he utilizes his own fundamentals based on how you approach the matchup, regardless of the character you use. Granted there's alot of stuff I've gone over with a fine tooth comb since then and it's not really relevant by today's metagame, but he's educated enough to give an opinion on this.

And for clarity's sake, if you want me to be brutally honest and think I'm only saying this out of courtesy of playing with him at PND, I still think the mistakes he made at EVO, he could've made on the best of days regardless of everything else he had to put up with over that weekend. I don't get Slips's issue with the dude, or vice versa, I don't have a problem with either of them, as I'm sure they haven't with me, so whatever, and by all means, let's put this behind us and carry on with the thread.

Not a clue wtf Slips problem is with me TBH/

But its PND code to fight hate with hate, I couldn't break it.

 

[Chaosphere]

I have no idea why people are giving Foxy shit over this. d1~spear is not a robust option. It works sometimes, sure. A lot of people try to punish blocked d1 these days. If scorp goes for d1~spear and someone thinks they are going to punish his d1 then chances are they will probably get hit by the spear. Or if they sit there and hold block or crouch after blocking a d1, then scorp is gonna get fucked.

It's just a half assed guessing game that works sometimes. See: NinjapendenceDAY vs Frothy Omen at UFGT last year. Should be on youtube.

Above all else, there are better options. But if you decide to do it, and it happens to work... fuck... then have a good day.

Why are we fighting over this?

 

[NKZero]

I don't get it....why can't D1-spear be counter-poked? Why does this ever work?

 

[BillStickers]

FOXY WILL DRINK THE TEARS OF AMERICANS AT EVO 2013

 

[RiBBz22]

I wouldn't do d1~anything that is negative a million on block. Thank you d1~smoke bomb

 

[KHAOTIC_Flames]

Just 111 leg grab or 111 b2 buddie.

 

[Slips]

I think you have every right to say that when the person you're arguing with didn't suffer a near death injury and played with no preparation or sleep, straight out of the hospital.

Amazing what cheap shots people take when they have nothing else to.

My 0.02$

The cheap shot was him telling someone they need to play better comp if someone gets hit by a very viable tactic. He obviously doesn't know what he's talking about cause I use it on some of the best comp in the country with decent success. If you don't think its good, just say you don't think its good. No need to be a condesending asshole about it. Especially if you don't have experience against it and are just theory fighting behind your reasoning.

And I don't hate Foxy, its just fun to blow up his arrogance.

Most of you aren't understanding the circumstance of when to use d+1 ~ spear. You don't just dash up and do it. It's used to get out of pressure. Especially characters that stop and start strings over and over for their pressure that leave them standing. (Cage, Kabal, Jax, Cyrax, ect.) I've never played someone that didn't get hit by it the first few times I did it. And once people start noticing it and respecting it, it opens up everything else Scorpion has. Whether you want to do b+2, crossup, 1,1 pressure ect its up to you. But the point is people stop mashing random shit out after getting hit out of their pressure, and thats half the battle considering Scorp's shit pokes and normals.

 

[Chaosphere]

I don't get it....why can't D1-spear be counter-poked? Why does this ever work?

It can be counterpoked. Do you counterpoke EVERY d1 people throw out?

 

[OutworldKeith]

@a foxy grandpa

D1~lift actually does work very well actually lol.

 

[OutworldKeith]

The cheap shot was him telling someone they need to play better comp if someone gets hit by a very viable tactic. He obviously doesn't know what he's talking about cause I use it on some of the best comp in the country with decent success. If you don't think its good, just say you don't think its good. No need to be a condesending asshole about it. Especially if you don't have experience against it and are just theory fighting behind your reasoning.

And I don't hate Foxy, its just fun to blow up his arrogance.

Most of you aren't understanding the circumstance of when to use d+1 ~ spear. You don't just dash up and do it. It's used to get out of pressure. Especially characters that stop and start strings over and over for their pressure that leave them standing. (Cage, Kabal, Jax, Cyrax, ect.) I've never played someone that got didn't get hit by it the first few times I did it. And once people start noticing it and respecting it, it opens up everything else Scorpion has. Whether you want to do b+2, crossup, 1,1 pressure ect its up to you. But the point is people stop mashing random shit out after getting hit out of their pressure, and thats half the battle considering Scorp's shit pokes and normals.

Your absolutely correct. Most of the people that are against it are thinking of using d1~spear in an offensive manner, but it's a defensive maneuver lol. Booty Slaya got me with this plenty of times in our Liu Kang vs Scorp casuals. I like to bait d1 to continue my offense with b3, and that d1~spear blew me up. It's definitely a viable tactic IMO.

 

[Chaosphere]

This is like people telling me I should NEVER use d1~vb as raiden, when half of the time I do it it gives me an anti-air combo.

 

[Big Pampering]

is d1 spear not interruptable by lets say cage f3 if the d1 is blocked? if that is the case it would be a pretty dangerous but incredibly risky move. But if you block a d1, the first thing cage would or should do is f33 if the spear comes out faster than f33 if it is canceled cage cant counterpoke with f33, so the cage player would have to at least respect your d1 and refrain from using certain options. I must admit I don't respect d1's even on hit because its only +1, as a kung lao player my standing 2 is still 8 frames fast.

 

[OutworldKeith]

This is like people telling me I should NEVER use d1~vb as raiden, when half of the time I do it it gives me an anti-air combo.

Or like using the electrocute command throw after a string. It's risky but it will block shit up

 

[ryublaze]

is d1 spear not interruptable by lets say cage f3 if the d1 is blocked? if that is the case it would be a pretty dangerous but incredibly risky move. But if you block a d1, the first thing cage would or should do is f33 if the spear comes out faster than f33 if it is canceled cage cant counterpoke with f33, so the cage player would have to at least respect your d1 and refrain from using certain options. I must admit I don't respect d1's even on hit because its only +1, as a kung lao player my standing 2 is still 8 frames fast.

D1 has 0 cancel advantage on block and spear comes out in 13 frames so yes it can be interrupted but who's going to be blocking while pressuring Scorpion? D1 has +14 cancel advantage on hit which is why spear can't be interrupted.

 

[ryublaze]

It's kinda funny seeing the poll results change so fast. I was the 1st to vote yes and it was like 1 to 4 lol.

 

[Big Pampering]

D1 has 0 cancel advantage on block and spear comes out in 13 frames so yes it can be interrupted but who's going to be blocking while pressuring Scorpion? D1 has +14 cancel advantage on hit which is why spear can't be interrupted.

so d1 on block is still going to be full combo punish against a cage that is on point with punishing d1 on block, if you just respect a d1 on hit you should be fine. you cant really deny it wouldnt have a chance of hitting you if you didnt know about it though

 

[NKZero]

It can be counterpoked. Do you counterpoke EVERY d1 people throw out?

I didn't mean it like that. I read somewhere within this thread that it cannot be counter-poked so I was confused.

 

[Slips]

so d1 on block is still going to be full combo punish against a cage that is on point with punishing d1 on block, if you just respect a d1 on hit you should be fine. you cant really deny it wouldnt have a chance of hitting you if you didnt know about it though

Again, we are talking about d+1 on hit. Not block.

 

[Big Pampering]

Again, we are talking about d+1 on hit. Not block.

Don't get me wrong, Ive seen it work against dizzy on their stream, it is dangerous. same way people get hit by d1 cutter when they shouldnt in theory, people can also get hit by d1 spear. But I was also just pointing out if d1 is blocked it will be punised like usual by cage with f3 if you cancel into spear or not and its not like you can hitconfirm d1 into spear. its a high risk high reward thing.

 

[GamerBlake90]

I did vote "NO" in the poll, but after re-reading this thread I can see where the other side is coming from. Still not a habit I would love to slip into (no pun intended ), but it's like I said in one of my old threads before: you can't go through a whole fight without taking at least a few risks.