Match-up Discussion MIT's reptile MU chart

[cR WoundCowboy]

Shang is 5-5 vs rep. his only way out of pressure is dash or armor, both of which are very risky. Midscreen Reptile has to respect the SS.

 

[Axel_Redd]

well this is why i believe he beats him:
*Parry i believe can be used on his ex dash, but besides that, i can d4 it every time to blow it up and proceed to pressure him
*Unless you do a divekick at a very low distance, reptile's dash can punish it easily
*He can divekick over forceballs, but has to be careful bcuz ex slow orb will cause him to divekick into it
*Reptile can also njp divekicks for a full combo
*In the footsies game, Reptile's d4 will be an issue, i've noticed that when cyber subs get annoyed by it, they'll try and jump and divekick, so reptile can njp it and punish for a full combo
*Cyber sub doesn't have fast standing normals like reptile and his pokes are rather bad besides his d3 being 6 frames, but it's super stubby and doesn't have the same reach as his d4.
I'd like to hear why you got it 5-5 tho, enlighten me.

how can reptile pressure after d4 on hit when his dash is shit? lol

 

[WayoftheFist]

Agreed 100% with the SZ number. 5-5 and one of the most fun mus to play imo.

 

[YOMI DJT]

how can reptile pressure after d4 on hit when his dash is shit? lol

rep really doesn't need to pressure cyber sub much to beat him
rep can keep csz out

 

[YOMI DJT]

oddly enough, Kenshi v Reptile is the only MU where i'm comfortable fighting a Reptile

i don't see it as a ADV MU in either direction, but i will differ to MIT's opinion for now

that's just you. its not a comfortable match for kenshi. 6 4 rep

 

[Axel_Redd]

rep really doesn't need to pressure cyber sub much to beat him
rep can keep csz out

i know, it just puzzled me that he said u can pressure after d4 on hit....but u can't the only guaranteed thing you can do is f2b1. his dash is to slow to go in for pressure.

 

[YOMI DJT]

i know, it just puzzled me that he said u can pressure after d4 on hit....but u can't the only guaranteed thing you can do is f2b1. his dash is to slow to go in for pressure.

oh ok I don't know why he said that or maybe you read it wrong? anyways reptile beats csz 6 4
just a slight adv

 

[YOMI DJT]

You are VERY wrong, it's 6-4 for Ermac.

LMAO bro nice troll but at the highest lvl ermac loses it. didn't you play my bro at revelations? did you win most of the matches when you guys played?
this is a match where ermac can use no tkps.
rep can punish everytime or get in etc.

 

[Metzos]

You are VERY wrong, it's 6-4 for Ermac.

So, unless you are trolling, care to explain why plz ? Cause the way i see it, it goes like this:

Full screen : Even. (Zoning Reptile with projectiles is hard cause of the spacing his force balls create, which means if he throws a slow force ball and you throw a projectile, he will block the projectile, but cause of the slow force ball Ermac will be stuck where he is, or back walk and Reptile will come to dash range. He also has spits. On the other hand Reptile cannot spam force balls and spits cause they can be tp'ed on reaction by Ermac.)

Mid screen: Reptile wins slightly. (Reptile's 50/50 mix ups with dash and slide's make this hard for Ermac. Also he can simply force ball you from full screen and and dash to continue advancing and Ermac can do nothing about it. Regular TKP can be punished by dash and blocked max ranged TKP's allow Reptile to dash in for pressure. On the other hand though one blocked dash and 38% of Reptile's life is gone, but in high lvl the Reptile player knows this and he wont take any chances. He will either go with EX dashes, which yeah can be interrupted in between, but still creating meter for Reptile in the particular MU is not an issue, or just dash block to come up close.)

Up close: Reptile wins slightly again. Why ? Better mix ups. Safe over head with push back which leaves him at exact range for d4's, invisibility mix ups and 50/50 low mid mix ups.

EDIT: iaFB helps Ermac a lot here but he has to assume Reptile will do a d4 in order to interrupt him. But still Reptile can blow it up with EX dash or EX slide on reaction.

 

[Chongo]

While I don't doubt @MITDJT's #'s, I do disagree with a few of them.
I've always found Jax and Shang to be 5-5, but TBH I rarely play those MU's, so I'm willing to agree with you.
However, Sonya DEFINITELY beats Reptile 7-3. No doubt about it.
I also feel that Skarlet has a slight advantage, probably 4-6.

 

[Daniel Aiden]

mileena beats reaptile 6-4 , same for Kung Lao , Sonya 6-4?7-3? . Reptile 6-4 Kenshi . 5-5 with Sub Zero it's fair with his corner game . nice matchup chart

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

how can reptile pressure after d4 on hit when his dash is shit? lol

lmao it's plus on hit, csz can't just move after it, got to look at the frame data bro, also reptile can just get a lead and walk back vs him anyways. Also his dash isn't bad lmao, that punishes many things most ppl can't punish, has good range, and helps him close the distance on ppl and forces ppl to block or get dashed on.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

Shang is 5-5 vs rep. his only way out of pressure is dash or armor, both of which are very risky. Midscreen Reptile has to respect the SS.

i'll explain in depth later, it's 6-4 reptile though, i know shangs pressure well, and in the footsies game, d4 will be my ally. I'll explain more later tho, i got too much work haha.

 

[Axel_Redd]

lmao it's plus on hit, csz can't just move after it, got to look at the frame data bro, also reptile can just get a lead and walk back vs him anyways. Also his dash isn't bad lmao, that punishes many things most ppl can't punish, has good range, and helps him close the distance on ppl and forces ppl to block or get dashed on.

i know how much d4 is on hit, its +12, im talking about his normal forward dash, NOT ELBOW DASH!!!. His normal forward dash is so slow that even with d4 on hit you can dash in to pressure with anything like 321 or 1221.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

i know how much d4 is on hit, its +12, im talking about his normal forward dash, NOT ELBOW DASH!!!. His normal forward dash is so slow that even with d4 on hit you can dash in to pressure with anything like 321 or 1221.

why use his slow ass normal dash in haha, i'd just go for a jump in or just create space.

 

[Daniel Aiden]

"why use his slow ass normal dash in haha, i'd just go for a jump in or just create space."
smart !

 

[Axel_Redd]

why use his slow ass normal dash in haha, i'd just go for a jump in or just create space.

yeah i usually create space or go for f2b1, also is a jump in guaranteed after d4 on hit?

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

yeah i usually create space or go for f2b1, also is a jump in guaranteed after d4 on hit?

hmm not too sure, but i'm positive you can mix it in at times.

 

[Axel_Redd]

hmm not too sure, but i'm positive you can mix it in at times.

hey Somberness can reptile jumpin punch after a d4 or no?, but yeah one of the things i like to do after d4 on hit is either d4 again and cancel into AH or do acid hand after the d4 hits without canceling to screw with their timing. i've also gotten into the habbit of using ex AH since i can net a combo from this situation should they guess wrong. D4 MINDGAMEZ ftw!!!!.

i also have some tech i came up with for 1221....im not sure if i should share it tho, maybe i'll just keep it as my own lil thing x)

 

[Seven]

So, unless you are trolling, care to explain why plz ? Cause the way i see it, it goes like this:

Full screen : Even. (Zoning Reptile with projectiles is hard cause of the spacing his force balls create, which means if he throws a slow force ball and you throw a projectile, he will block the projectile, but cause of the slow force ball Ermac will be stuck where he is, or back walk and Reptile will come to dash range. He also has spits. On the other hand Reptile cannot spam force balls and spits cause they can be tp'ed on reaction by Ermac.)

Mid screen: Reptile wins slightly. (Reptile's 50/50 mix ups with dash and slide's make this hard for Ermac. Also he can simply force ball you from full screen and and dash to continue advancing and Ermac can do nothing about it. Regular TKP can be punished by dash and blocked max ranged TKP's allow Reptile to dash in for pressure. On the other hand though one blocked dash and 38% of Reptile's life is gone, but in high lvl the Reptile player knows this and he wont take any chances. He will either go with EX dashes, which yeah can be interrupted in between, but still creating meter for Reptile in the particular MU is not an issue, or just dash block to come up close.)

Up close: Reptile wins slightly again. Why ? Better mix ups. Safe over head with push back which leaves him at exact range for d4's, invisibility mix ups and 50/50 low mid mix ups.

At fullscreen: Ermac has advantage, his projectile is strong and if you do it right, Reptile has to constantly fight to get in. And Reptile has to be on edge because of Ermac's teleport. And there is also Ermac's tele-push, if you fire a projectile then dash in and tele-push, it reaches almost full screen.

Mid-screen: Jump kick + airblast, Reptile's anti-air sucks. And unless Reptile dashes (which could get him punished), he is VERY slow moving. And Reptile pressure is super easy to get out of: Invisibility (you can punish on reaction), all you have to do is block high, his only low is his slide and that low punch, which I wouldn't mind getting hit with because it doesn't lead to a combo and ends the pressure.

Up close: Ermac has really good pressure up close, people just don't know how to use it right. 121 is very good vs Reptile. Also grabbing Reptile works. And again, Ermac has his airblast, which wins when you crossover.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

At fullscreen: Ermac has advantage, his projectile is strong and if you do it right, Reptile has to constantly fight to get in. And Reptile has to be on edge because of Ermac's teleport. And there is also Ermac's tele-push, if you fire a projectile then dash in and tele-push, it reaches almost full screen.

Mid-screen: Jump kick + airblast, Reptile's anti-air sucks. And unless Reptile dashes (which could get him punished), he is VERY slow moving. And Reptile pressure is super easy to get out of: Invisibility (you can punish on reaction), all you have to do is block high, his only low is his slide and that low punch, which I wouldn't mind getting hit with because it doesn't lead to a combo and ends the pressure.

Up close: Ermac has really good pressure up close, people just don't know how to use it right. 121 is very good vs Reptile. Also grabbing Reptile works. And again, Ermac has his airblast, which wins when you crossover.

care to show me why he wins at SCR? i'm not convinced haha.

 

[Axel_Redd]

At fullscreen: Ermac has advantage, his projectile is strong and if you do it right, Reptile has to constantly fight to get in. And Reptile has to be on edge because of Ermac's teleport. And there is also Ermac's tele-push, if you fire a projectile then dash in and tele-push, it reaches almost full screen.

Mid-screen: Jump kick + airblast, Reptile's anti-air sucks. And unless Reptile dashes (which could get him punished), he is VERY slow moving. And Reptile pressure is super easy to get out of: Invisibility (you can punish on reaction), all you have to do is block high, his only low is his slide and that low punch, which I wouldn't mind getting hit with because it doesn't lead to a combo and ends the pressure.

Up close: Ermac has really good pressure up close, people just don't know how to use it right. 121 is very good vs Reptile. Also grabbing Reptile works. And again, Ermac has his airblast, which wins when you crossover.

back when TKP had less recovery time i'd probably agree with you, but if at anytime reptile blocks a tkp he gets a free dash in. Ermacs pressure is not very solid, its actually somewhat gimmicky if u think about it. Reptile on the other hand doesnt need to sustain pressure to be in a comfortable position. d4 range is where reptile would be at most of the time. And when reptile gets his Ex forceball setups going ermac has to be extra careful.

 

[Metzos]

At fullscreen: Ermac has advantage, his projectile is strong and if you do it right, Reptile has to constantly fight to get in. And Reptile has to be on edge because of Ermac's teleport. And there is also Ermac's tele-push, if you fire a projectile then dash in and tele-push, it reaches almost full screen.

Mid-screen: Jump kick + airblast, Reptile's anti-air sucks. And unless Reptile dashes (which could get him punished), he is VERY slow moving. And Reptile pressure is super easy to get out of: Invisibility (you can punish on reaction), all you have to do is block high, his only low is his slide and that low punch, which I wouldn't mind getting hit with because it doesn't lead to a combo and ends the pressure.

Up close: Ermac has really good pressure up close, people just don't know how to use it right. 121 is very good vs Reptile. Also grabbing Reptile works. And again, Ermac has his airblast, which wins when you crossover.

Full screen: And whats stopping the Reptile player by just dash blocking or dash d3 to come to mid screen where Ermac struggles against him ? Also his spits are faster than Ermac's projectile. One force ball is enough to lock down Ermac, and there, Reptile has the projectile advantage again. I explained why tp shouldnt be taken as a serious consideration here. High lvl Reptiles wont spam force balls and spits. If you do what you said Reptile is in. He will just block the projectile, block the TKP, dash and then he is.

Midscreen: Reptile's AA's dont suck lol. He has AA 3, AA 2 and force balls are also very good as AA's, plus he has armor on slide. He also wont do invinsibility mid screen, but up close after the end of the string, and his hit box is getting really messed up there. I ve tried doing 121 on reaction after he became inv once, and it went through him.

Up close: The thing is, that air-blast works against Ermac in the particular MU. On block it leaves the opponent on sweep range and Reptile's d4 beats all of Ermac's options and on top of that Reptile can easily do EX dash and he is in again. As i said before, Reptile has no problem building bars in the particular MU. It is winnable for Ermac though, but Reptile has a bit the upper hand here imo.

EDIT: He can easily just do the safe over-head when he pressures as a mean to build up meter when up close.

Post edited.

 

[Metzos]

back when TKP had less recovery time i'd probably agree with you, but if at anytime reptile blocks a tkp he gets a free dash in. And when reptile gets his Ex forceball setups going ermac has to be extra careful.

This too.

 

[THTB]

Why is it still believed Reptile gets guaranteed pressure after a blocked max-range TKP???

Frame data is your friend, guys.

TKP is -17, dash has 20f duration on whiff...Reptile is -3.

Reptile doesn't lose from far away. Fireball is okay, but eventually you'll just let him get a forceball on screen if you think it'll keep Reptile in check, that or he'll smack your 55f duration time with an EX FFB. Reptile can keep up with Ermac here still. Teleport is baitable with EX forceball. JK air blast is worthwhile if Reptile has no meter, otherwise you risk running into EXFB charge, which is a combo into Reptile's oki, that Ermac has problems against. Ermac is best at dash whiff distance, since you can TKP with no fear to stuff anything he'll try to do (dash and TKP done at the same time at this range = Ermac hits), and it's in your advantage if he does come in, still. Neither of them have overwhelming pressure up close, as Ermac is faster than Reptile as a whole, but Reptile outranges all of Ermac's normals easily, though Ermac can do shit like u4 Reptile's d4.

This matchup isn't in anyone's favor. Whatsoever. Reptile wants to set up forceballs, and has many areas to set them up, but his best spot on the screen to do this is cut off by Ermac. It certainly isn't in Ermac's favor, but Ermacs need to learn shit still in this matchup.

Metzos: Reptile's AA 2 doesn't lead to anything other than 2 xx acid hand from the right ranges, and EX dash doesn't have armor.

EDIT 2: Didn't realized Somberness made changes to Reptile's frame data. Reptile dash has 16f duration (which changes a LOT of my perceptions of blocked FB at dash whiff range...that shit is at least +11 ; Also changes my outlook on dash in general). This means Reptile is +1 after blocked TKP at whiff range, but it is still a total mixup as to what happens next. Reptile is still too slow to go straight into 321 pressure, but has a guaranteed speed advantage in dash on anything Ermac can do...problem is, Ermac can simply just block this and there goes over 1/3 of your life.