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Match-up Discussion Reptile vs Cage Matchup Discussion

HGTV Soapboxfan

"Always a Pleasure"
If you have no meter and I get any little combo ending with 321 then I have absolutely NO FEAR of you doing anything and I can keep you where I want you or atleast make you work to get near me. Red kick eliminates a lot of Reptiles combo enders and follow ups. Not having to worry about it is a nice luxury when the opportunity presents itself.
Ok so it gives you better oki, sounds reasonable. When I play the matchup I generally don't waste meter to get out of those setups, so that didn't cross my mind. That brings it closer to even but I still think it is slight advantage cage. Like 5.5-4.5 if we were using decimals, it could go either way.
 

RapZiLLa54

Monster Island Tournaments
Ok so it gives you better oki, sounds reasonable. When I play the matchup I generally don't waste meter to get out of those setups, so that didn't cross my mind. That brings it closer to even but I still think it is slight advantage cage. Like 5.5-4.5 if we were using decimals, it could go either way.
Exactly. This matchup really depends more so on the players making the right reads and who plays better mind games.
 

dribirut

BLAK FELOW
im convinced this is 6-4 cage. once he gets in.... holy shit..
Well actually i only think this mu is 6-4 at the absolute highest level but at lower levels 5-5
 

UPR_Nova

Apprentice
While I may not have the best cage in comparison to say Dizzy or Curbo, I do have LOADS of information concerning this matchup, so, here goes.

Seapeople is completely correct in this matchup from the looks of the write up. Now, basically, take the write up for Reptile and flip it. Sounds basic but here are my main points.

D1 is almost your best friend in this matchup. It pokes Reptile out of every attempt after a break in your pressure. For example...f3,3 into d1. If the Reptile player knows that the only option for pressure continuation after a f3,3 is to poke or crossup then you have them. Of course, d3 is the better option, however, in the corner after a blocked f3,3,b3 your best option to continue pressure is the d1. At any point on the screen, d1 will poke Reptile out of elbow dash, EX elbow dash and slide. I am personally not 100% about the EX slide and quite frankly, if the Reptile player chooses this method to escape pressure, chalk it up as a win for Cage for 2 reasons: waste of meter, and from what I can tell, cage can randomly (if not 100% of the time) poke Reptile out of the EX slide with d1. I was lucky enough to get matches in with Showtime at MLG Raleigh and the d1 was amazing. Not saying he is the best Reptile on the planet or that my Cage is by any means, however, we can all admit that he is among the best to play the game. What I find "abusable" against a player of this caliber, I find viable in the matchup.

DO NOT STAND BLOCK. A good Cage will blow up a Reptile (or any character) that just loves to stand block. Be my guest and eat 1's and 2's the entire match. That opens up a ridiculous array of pressure options for the Cage player. 1 2 d3 and the 1,3 string followed by EX forceball or d3 and d1 mixups. Add that to the f3 pressure in which Reptile has a very hard time getting out of and you are headed for even more trouble. Trust me from the Cage perspective I personally hate crouch blocking opponents. Tougher to continue pressure against and less "free" meter in the long run.

Cage will rarely if ever attempt the EX forceball for obvious reasons.
1.) The first forceball will whiff a standing Reptile, therefore, no reason to attempt it.
2.) The only way to connect with the forceball frame trap is 1,3~EX FB or f2~EX FB...gotta be standing for those to connect.
3.) Most Cage players would prefer to use that meter for breaker. Since you don't need it for frametraps, play an overaggressive style with the d1 pokes and you minimize risk while holding breakers for the majority of the match. Just don't get carried away...f3,3,b3 into d1 every time is not practical. I'm simply saying you can abuse it.

In the corner:
Cage corner pressure against Reptile is a little different than most. Reptile players LOVE to use the EX elbow dash to escape the corner for obvious reasons. Since Cage is able to poke Reptile out of the EX elbow dash easily (especially in the corner) Reptile is forced to make a quick decision. As a Cage player I love to abuse f3,3,b3 into d1 in the corner simply to bait an EX dash for meter drain or to bait a jump. D1 pokes out the elbow dash and I can continue pressure, however, it can still be read and jumped over granting Reptile some pressure of his own. This is the basic ground floor of the metagame in the corner between these two characters. After that break in pressure the Reptile can choose to low block anticipating the d1 to block it and pressure or jump to attempt to blow it up. A jump of course gets blown up by the b3 or standing 1 into a nutpunch reset so as a Cage player I'm wanting them to jump when I expect it, AA, and reset the pressure. Of course my goal as Cage is to pressure so well that I never use the b3 ender, and mindlessly knee them in the corner and face palm them in the chest for all of eternity but that's not going to happen 99% of the time. Just some food for thought with that d1.

As for midscreen, Cage treats it like any other matchup minus the use of forceball frametraps. Use of 2 and f3 pressure mixups and if the Reptile wants to stand, 1s, 1,3 and f2 forceball pressure are my options and poking often is my friend. I also find 2,1 mixups to be extremely helpful. Reptile has an easier time getting out of those so ending the string in the launcher and 2,1 into d3 is as free as it could possibly get if you know what you are doing.

Seapeople has previously spoken on the EX dash pressure. Cage can d1 in the middle of it and even b3 if he's good enough but overabuse of that isn't recommended from my perspective.

In my overall opinion (and as previously stated) it is a match that revolves heavily on meter and the ability of the Reptile player to keep Cage out or at maximum d4 distance. That d1 is a monster for Reptile to handle, he can't keep out Cage forever, and he can't poke out of shit. From my personal experience and matchup knowledge, 6-4 Cage.
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
i've read through all this.
one thing i don't understand. If EVERY TIME cage touches reptile... he's putting himself in a 50/50... how exactly would he be at advantage? Clearly reptile has to take a risk... but after 3 times of dashing you because you're pushing buttons...

I think people don't stand up and FIGHT cage... they make excuses.

In any case... do Cage players feel like they are at a disadvantage? no? (btw HGTV Soapboxfan cage doesn't need meter in ANY matchup really) Do reptile players feel at disadvantage.... from what i've read... no not really.

Just my observation :)
 

Soul Bound X

Kombatant
i've read through all this.
one thing i don't understand. If EVERY TIME cage touches reptile... he's putting himself in a 50/50... how exactly would he be at advantage? Clearly reptile has to take a risk... but after 3 times of dashing you because you're pushing buttons...

I think people don't stand up and FIGHT cage... they make excuses.

In any case... do Cage players feel like they are at a disadvantage? no? (btw HGTV Soapboxfan cage doesn't need meter in ANY matchup really) Do reptile players feel at disadvantage.... from what i've read... no not really.

Just my observation :)
its not really a 50/50 game. the dash can be baited and punished. reptile really doesnt want that to happen. but if cage does get hit by the dash, i dont really care, it doesnt do that much damage.
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
its not really a 50/50 game. the dash can be baited and punished. reptile really doesnt want that to happen. but if cage does get hit by the dash, i dont really care, it doesnt do that much damage.
but it is... if you keep pushing buttons... you get punished.... and if you bait i get punished.
The risk is in favor of Cage... clearly... but its a 50/50 non the less.
3 dashes is a 3rd of your life... so it adds up.

I'm just saying.
 

Soul Bound X

Kombatant
but it is... if you keep pushing buttons... you get punished.... and if you bait i get punished.
The risk is in favor of Cage... clearly... but its a 50/50 non the less.
3 dashes is a 3rd of your life... so it adds up.

I'm just saying.
lol. if its in my favor then its not 50/50 is it? and that is if you get those three dashes. im doing chip and can bait and punish the dashes. and im not exactly just pressing buttons. ill be smart with my button presses/pressure. when cage gets in on reptile its in his favor
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
lol. if its in my favor then its not 50/50 is it? and that is if you get those three dashes. im doing chip and can bait and punish the dashes. and im not exactly just pressing buttons. ill be smart with my button presses/pressure. when cage gets in on reptile its in his favor
LOL
yes ... its a 50/50... one of us wins in the situation......
 

Soul Bound X

Kombatant
LOL
yes ... its a 50/50... one of us wins in the situation......
yeah but im most likely to win. you're not a mind reader. your not going to know when to dash. you have to pretty much completely guess. but i can bait the dash. so its in my favor. and even if u do dash and hit me, i already did chip.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
The fact that dash gives Reptile a meterless answer to Cage's pressure that does more than just provide frame advantage is a big reason why Cage doesn't have a 7-3 advantage in the matchup. It's not just about the damage on 3 good guesses. Each good guess puts the situation directly into Reptile's hands and gives him an opportunity for more than just 11%. But because Cage has so much shit to react to, even just dashing is annoying because it's not one simple button press like a d3, which makes it clunky to try to use as well.

Cage has the advantage in the matchup because he is better up close, and advances too fast for Reptile to get his spacing down all the time. Reptile has to constantly risk putting himself in sticky spots to keep the match on his side.
 

Soul Bound X

Kombatant
The fact that dash gives Reptile a meterless answer to Cage's pressure that does more than just provide frame advantage is a big reason why Cage doesn't have a 7-3 advantage in the matchup. It's not just about the damage on 3 good guesses. Each good guess puts the situation directly into Reptile's hands and gives him an opportunity for more than just 11%. But because Cage has so much shit to react to, even just dashing is annoying because it's not one simple button press like a d3, which makes it clunky to try to use as well.

Cage has the advantage in the matchup because he is better up close, and advances too fast for Reptile to get his spacing down all the time. Reptile has to constantly risk putting himself in sticky spots to keep the match on his side.
yeah, but that meterless answer can be baited. and yeah it may be in cages favor, but against a good reptile i actually dont feel like i have that much of an advantage.
 

Seapeople

This one's for you
i've read through all this.
one thing i don't understand. If EVERY TIME cage touches reptile... he's putting himself in a 50/50... how exactly would he be at advantage? Clearly reptile has to take a risk... but after 3 times of dashing you because you're pushing buttons...

I think people don't stand up and FIGHT cage... they make excuses.

In any case... do Cage players feel like they are at a disadvantage? no? (btw HGTV Soapboxfan cage doesn't need meter in ANY matchup really) Do reptile players feel at disadvantage.... from what i've read... no not really.

Just my observation :)
I definitely feel at disadvantage in the matchup, but my Reptile isn't that good anyway lol. It's not really even a 50/50 when Cage touches you though. There is a 50/50 between whether he does f3 and bait the dash, or f3 into more pressure...but that doesn't take into account he could also use f33 or f33b3. And that's just considering that one string.
He has many more options than Reptile up close, and the risk/reward is extremely in his favor.

Also I'm pretty sure Reptile has no way of counterpoking Cage's d1 because of its pushback. You're at advantage but can't do too much with such slow pokes :(
Cage as player 1 vs Reptile isn't very fun.
 

HGTV Soapboxfan

"Always a Pleasure"
i've read through all this.
one thing i don't understand. If EVERY TIME cage touches reptile... he's putting himself in a 50/50... how exactly would he be at advantage? Clearly reptile has to take a risk... but after 3 times of dashing you because you're pushing buttons...

I think people don't stand up and FIGHT cage... they make excuses.

In any case... do Cage players feel like they are at a disadvantage? no? (btw HGTV Soapboxfan cage doesn't need meter in ANY matchup really) Do reptile players feel at disadvantage.... from what i've read... no not really.

Just my observation :)
Cage is a character where his meter simply enhances his game, giving him free red kick to push towards the corner, or an occassional ex forceball to get some extra chip, or being less afraid to throw out a random shadow kick. He needs these things to fight a lot of the upper half of the cast. Guess what, you are not beating kabal or kenshi without a few random shadow kicks. I personally play a cage that is just as much about meter building as pressure. I finish fwd33b3 a lot more than other cage players for this reason, and it opens me up to have red kick and ex forceball threats from longer range than cage without meter does.As far as this talk about elbow dashing out of pressure is an even 50/50, bullshit. Cage can finish the string, or block the elbow dash. Reptile can elbow dash or not elbow dash. Plus the risk reward is in cage's favor because elbow dash does 11 percent while cage will punish for at least 20 into chip damage.
 

EGP Wonder_Chef

Official Quan Chi Nerf Demander™
Reptile definitely loses this matchup. Cage is really good at abusing all of Reptile's biggest holes.


9 frame d1 and 8 frame short d3 means that Reptile has to take a big risk with Elbow Dash every time he wants to get out of pressure.

Cage has one of the easiest EN Dash punishes in the game (EN Nut Punch or Xray) so that isn't safe either.

Reptile's lack of mobility along with Cage having one of the best dashes/advancing normals in the game means that Cage can control the spacing of the match very well.



In my opinion, Reptile has to stay on the offensive almost the entire match, because a good Cage will be able to take advantage of Reptile trying to zone by moving into a more advantageous screen position.
 

HGTV Soapboxfan

"Always a Pleasure"
Reptile definitely loses this matchup. Cage is really good at abusing all of Reptile's biggest holes.


9 frame d1 and 8 frame short d3 means that Reptile has to take a big risk with Elbow Dash every time he wants to get out of pressure.

Cage has one of the easiest EN Dash punishes in the game (EN Nut Punch or Xray) so that isn't safe either.

Reptile's lack of mobility along with Cage having one of the best dashes/advancing normals in the game means that Cage can control the spacing of the match very well.



In my opinion, Reptile has to stay on the offensive almost the entire match, because a good Cage will be able to take advantage of Reptile trying to zone by moving into a more advantageous screen position.
I don't think reptile has to stay offensive the whole time, as long as he has meter he can do okay, but as soon as he runs out of meter, he is forced to play offensively. And anybody who has to play offensively vs cage is in for a bad time.
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
Cage is a character where his meter simply enhances his game, giving him free red kick to push towards the corner, or an occassional ex forceball to get some extra chip, or being less afraid to throw out a random shadow kick. He needs these things to fight a lot of the upper half of the cast. Guess what, you are not beating kabal or kenshi without a few random shadow kicks. I personally play a cage that is just as much about meter building as pressure. I finish fwd33b3 a lot more than other cage players for this reason, and it opens me up to have red kick and ex forceball threats from longer range than cage without meter does.As far as this talk about elbow dashing out of pressure is an even 50/50, bullshit. Cage can finish the string, or block the elbow dash. Reptile can elbow dash or not elbow dash. Plus the risk reward is in cage's favor because elbow dash does 11 percent while cage will punish for at least 20 into chip damage.
i'm not denying the risk reward not being in reptiles favor.

but anytime I block something... its a 50/50.... because if I go to dash..... ONE of us WILL win. That is the definition of a 50/50. Plus Reptile gets away from you to setup another round of the forceball circus. Each person gains a good amount in there "win"; Cage damage, Reptile spacing.

Your points about Cages meter though are on point.
 

Soul Bound X

Kombatant
Cage is a character where his meter simply enhances his game, giving him free red kick to push towards the corner, or an occassional ex forceball to get some extra chip, or being less afraid to throw out a random shadow kick. He needs these things to fight a lot of the upper half of the cast. Guess what, you are not beating kabal or kenshi without a few random shadow kicks. I personally play a cage that is just as much about meter building as pressure. I finish fwd33b3 a lot more than other cage players for this reason, and it opens me up to have red kick and ex forceball threats from longer range than cage without meter does.As far as this talk about elbow dashing out of pressure is an even 50/50, bullshit. Cage can finish the string, or block the elbow dash. Reptile can elbow dash or not elbow dash. Plus the risk reward is in cage's favor because elbow dash does 11 percent while cage will punish for at least 20 into chip damage.
i think cages meter is also improtant in the cyrax match, if you get caught by net, whether you have breaker or not can determine whether or not u lose that match.