$20 for anyone who can stand a smart argument of why cage is not in the same tier as sonya

[Sao87]

she out zones cyrax with it & reptile and sub zero and Kung lao.

i dont think its that bad yo

HOW? It's one fucking straight projectile that you can duck. Cyrax's net takes up a huge portion of the screen and his bombs manipulate your movement.

Her projectile is equal to reptiles acid spit, however he has orbs that can either come out fast as hell, slow as fuck, big, small, etc.

Sub-zero's projectile leads into a combo and his clones control space.

Kung lao can manipulate the trajectory of his projectiles too!!!

Were talking containment characters with purposeful projectiles vs a rushdown character with a fucking standard fireball.....

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

HOW? It's one fucking straight projectile that you can duck. Cyrax's net takes up a huge portion of the screen and his bombs manipulate your movement.

Her projectile is equal to reptiles acid spit, however he has orbs that can either come out fast as hell, slow as fuck, big, small, etc.

Sub-zero's projectile leads into a combo and his clones control space.

Kung lao can manipulate the trajectory of his projectiles too!!!

Were talking containment characters with purposeful projectiles vs a rushdown character with a fucking standard fireball.....

I dont think the proper term is zoning with her projectile.... But she can keep those characters on their toes with it, and they cannot just zone her at long range like they can cage. She can almost use it as a tool to help get in by using it as a poke.

 

[Sao87]

I dont think the proper term is zoning with her projectile.... But she can keep those characters on their toes with it, and they cannot just zone her at long range like they can cage. She can almost use it as a tool to help get in by using it as a poke.

Which is a trait every character in the game has since every character has at least a "fireball"

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

Which is a trait every character in the game has since every character has at least a "fireball"

Well yeah, but some are obviously better than others. Reptiles is ridiculous for this, sonyas is pretty good, cages is obviously terrible. teh point is it is still a ridiculous tool for her with such a rushdown game. Part of the reason why I am picking her up

 

[Sao87]

But lets take this one step further and think about the differences between cage and sonyas projectiles.

Sonya has the quick recovery on her straight fireball because she literally has nothing else to combat characters at full distance. He projectile literally has no utility use outside of trying to discourage a projectile war.

Cage on the other hand has the option to jail characters with ex force balls to extend his block traps. Cage has two different variations in terms of trajectory on his fireballs (granted he wont really be using the high fireball.)

In a situation where an opponent has 1% hp Cage can guaranteed make you block his projectile by making it ex. Where as with sonya you can duck the first one and neutral jump the second. Meaning she doesn't even have the ability to guaranteed close the round without getting close to you.

 

[Sao87]

Well yeah, but some are obviously better than others. Reptiles is ridiculous for this, sonyas is pretty good, cages is obviously terrible. teh point is it is still a ridiculous tool for her with such a rushdown game. Part of the reason why I am picking her up

Would you not agree that Cages projectiles make his rush down game seem a little more out of control? What utility does Sonya gain from the use of her projectile?

 

[Konqrr]

Sao87 I love how you get mad and lay into people. Why are you and MortySeinfeld so different?

 

[Sao87]

Sao87 I love how you get mad and lay into people. Why are you and MortySeinfeld so different?

I get more confrontational because people seem to pay attention that way. I like to see red numbers when I decide to grace this website with my presence. I noticed when I dropped some awesome knowledge earlier in this thread nobody seemed to care. But when I tell people NO I'M FUCKING RIGHT, everyone wants to battle.

Here's the cool piece of info that everyone glazed over. I want to see some red numbers this time guys.

Heres some funny info for you guys talking about cage vs sonyas hitbox.

Cage's hitbox always stays at a mid level crouching whereas Sonyas hitbox floats from a mid level to a small hitbox level based on here breathing.
YES I SAID BASED ON HER BREATHING.

Don't believe me pick kabal and press stand 2 while she is crouch blocking. If she has inhaled a breath the stand 2 will connect against her block, if she has exhaled her breath her hitbox becomes low and his stand 2 will whiff over her crouch block. Sonya has the dominant hitbox only due to this silly rule.

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

Would you not agree that Cages projectiles make his rush down game seem a little more out of control? What utility does Sonya gain from the use of her projectile?

Im sorry Im not sure what you mean about cages projectile. But sonyas projectile does build her meter and allow her to trade with characters like cyrax at full screen, so they have to play closer to her which helps her get in. Other wise it is good as a poke at like 1/2 to 3/4 screen. i agree it isnt as dominating as her other tools, but lbsh, besides a select few characters, projectiles are not strong in this game in general.

 

[Playpal]

However the dash nerf is what killed this game and put zoners in favor like Kabal iAGB domination

This isn't 2011 anymore. Even if they didn't nerf dash, people would still be dash blocking to get around zoning.

 

[Sao87]

Im sorry Im not sure what you mean about cages projectile. But sonyas projectile does build her meter and allow her to trade with characters like cyrax at full screen, so they have to play closer to her which helps her get in. Other wise it is good as a poke at like 1/2 to 3/4 screen. i agree it isnt as dominating as her other tools, but lbsh, besides a select few characters, projectiles are not strong in this game in general.

Ok pretend you're cage and i'm blocking. You press jip f33b3. You could stop here, but why not keep the block pressure/damage going by doing this. f33b3 xx ex forceball f33b3. now you've done a small combos worth of damage with chip and almost built one bar of meter back for doing so.

Now lets pretend your Sonya. Give me a scenario where she can do something similar with her projectile.

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

Ok pretend you're cage and i'm blocking. You press jip f33b3. You could stop here, but why not keep the block pressure/damage going by doing this. f33b3 xx ex forceball f33b3. now you've done a small combos worth of damage with chip and almost built one bar of meter back for doing so.

Now lets pretend your Sonya. Give me a scenario where she can do something similar with her projectile.

O ok i got you...... that particular string can be punished on reaction with a poke unless the opponet is corned, but I got you. Sonya cannot do that, but she can use her projectile for different things like i previously metioned. You are not going to tell me cage is going to throw projectiles at long range and be successful.

 

[Death]

People need to stop bringing up Sonyas projectile like its going to change MUs. Cage projectile and ex projectile is much better than Sonyas. Much better. Not to mention his standing reset is better too. I'm not arguing saying that Cage is better. Sonya is better but not by much.

If your getting outzoned by Sonya than your just straight up garbage lol

 

[RTM2004]

This isn't 2011 anymore. Even if they didn't nerf dash, people would still be dash blocking to get around zoning.

What I meant is you can't double dash forward and backwards to immediately duck a projectile. When Kabal is iAGB for days nonstop you are forced to duck, crouch block take 2% chip per iAGB on top of his Ground Saws also 2% chip while he builds meter.. then he can come in whenever he wants. Many characters benefited from the dash nerf but at the same time the game has evolved strategy wise. Kabal is still broken going 2013

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

People need to stop bringing up Sonyas projectile like its going to change MUs. Cage projectile and ex projectile is much better than Sonyas. Much better. Not to mention his standing reset is better too. I'm not arguing saying that Cage is better. Sonya is better but not by much.

If your getting outzoned by Sonya than your just straight up garbage lol

Nobody is saying that you are going to be out zoning people with Sonya. I amsimply saying it a good move to check somebody outside of d4 range. And there is no way in HELL cages regular forceball is better than Sonya onion ring. ex forceball yes but regular forceball? come on.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Sonya doesnt need meter. Cage does.
Her D4 destroys tech rolls, Cage has pretty much nothing to catch them reliably from a distance.
Sonya can zone, Cage cant.
7f jab means interupts are alot more likely than Cages 9f F3.
She's safe on everything.

Every time she touches you she gets a free safe 50/50. The damage off of either of them is more than Cage will get from completing a full F33B3 Ex Fb. If theyre blocked it doesnt matter since she can armour with the meter she just built, or divekick, or do any kinda bullshit she wants, especially since there is pushback and the sweep is only -1 which means her standing 1 is still faster than most other characters combo starting strings.

What this means, is that Sonyas 5050s and resets are stronger than the nutpunch, she either gets a little less than him in chip, or possibly up to double the damage on the 5050, which also leads to tech roll traps. All for no meter while building alot of it.

Threat of the divekick means she'll be poked less.

At the same time, her strings are all full combo punishable by ducking, but you can deal with that.
Cage doesnt really have anything over her except for the fact that blocking in this game doesnt work properly, thats why so many people get caught even though the opponent is at disadvantage. If trades were in this game Cage would suck. Cage functions better simply because the system is a bit flawed.

 

[Playpal]

What I meant is you can't double dash forward and backwards to immediately duck a projectile. When Kabal is iAGB for days nonstop you are forced to duck, crouch block take 2% chip per iAGB on top of his Ground Saws also 2% chip while he builds meter.. then he can come in whenever he wants. Many characters benefited from the dash nerf but at the same time the game has evolved strategy wise. Kabal is still broken going 2013

dash into neutral crouch didn't work pre-patch either. Kabal's iagb hits high.

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

Sonya doesnt need meter. Cage does.
Her D4 destroys tech rolls, Cage has pretty much nothing to catch them reliably from a distance.
Sonya can zone, Cage cant.
7f jab means interupts are alot more likely than Cages 9f F3.
She's safe on everything.

Every time she touches you she gets a free safe 50/50. The damage off of either of them is more than Cage will get from completing a full F33B3 Ex Fb. If theyre blocked it doesnt matter since she can armour with the meter she just built, or divekick, or do any kinda bullshit she wants, especially since there is pushback and the sweep is only -1 which means her standing 1 is still faster than most other characters combo starting strings.

What this means, is that Sonyas 5050s and resets are stronger than the nutpunch, she either gets a little less than him in chip, or possibly up to double the damage on the 5050, which also leads to tech roll traps. All for no meter while building alot of it.

Threat of the divekick means she'll be poked less.

At the same time, her strings are all full combo punishable by ducking, but you can deal with that.
Cage doesnt really have anything over her except for the fact that blocking in this game doesnt work properly, thats why so many people get caught even though the opponent is at disadvantage. If trades were in this game Cage would suck. Cage functions better simply because the system is a bit flawed.

thank you you explained it best

 

[Sao87]

Sonya doesnt need meter. Cage does.
Her D4 destroys tech rolls, Cage has pretty much nothing to catch them reliably from a distance.
Sonya can zone, Cage cant.
7f jab means interupts are alot more likely than Cages 9f F3.
She's safe on everything.

Every time she touches you she gets a free safe 50/50. The damage off of either of them is more than Cage will get from completing a full F33B3 Ex Fb. If theyre blocked it doesnt matter since she can armour with the meter she just built, or divekick, or do any kinda bullshit she wants, especially since there is pushback and the sweep is only -1 which means her standing 1 is still faster than most other characters combo starting strings.

What this means, is that Sonyas 5050s and resets are stronger than the nutpunch, she either gets a little less than him in chip, or possibly up to double the damage on the 5050, which also leads to tech roll traps. All for no meter while building alot of it.

Threat of the divekick means she'll be poked less.

At the same time, her strings are all full combo punishable by ducking, but you can deal with that.
Cage doesnt really have anything over her except for the fact that blocking in this game doesnt work properly, thats why so many people get caught even though the opponent is at disadvantage. If trades were in this game Cage would suck. Cage functions better simply because the system is a bit flawed.

But I thought EX cartwheel was everything! That costs meter.

 

[Sao87]

Sonya has some pretty good meter building block traps as well with anything into xx ms f1 xx cartwheel.

 

[Derptile]

So, am I gonna get paid?

 

[The Borax Kid]

So, am I gonna get paid?

You have a much better chance of Evil admitting that this whole thread is a fraud ($20 for smart arguments) then you do of ever getting a cent from him.

If I were Evil, I would pick the very best argument in the thread and give that person $20, or else have his credibility shot to hell.

 

[Evil_Riu48]

sorry for the delay

it look like only konker and thtb got what i am asking for lol

i thought about replaying to everyone who post some matchups but i think it would be better to post my matchups and compere them some times i think people can not see by pass sonya's d4 and ex cartheel and after reading some post i am 100% sure that cage is been down play here are both of my matchups

if explanation is needed i ll give just tag me and ask

matchups in which maybe i am placing sonya better than i think she really is in that matchup just to make people who want to over rate her happy and still make my point
matchups in which maybe i am placing cage worst than i think he does just to make the cage player who are downplaying him happy and i still make my point
sonya cage

baraka 7-3 7-3
cybersub 6-4 6-4
cyrax 6-4 5-5
ermac 6-4 7-3
freddy 3-7 3-7
jade 7-3 7-3
jax 6-4 7-3
cage,sonya 5-5 5-5
kabal 3-7 3-7
kano 7-3 7-3
kenshi 4-6 3-7
kitana 5-5 5-5
kung lao 5-5 6-4
liu kang 6-4 6-4
mileena 7-3 6-4
knightwolf 7-3 7-3
noob 6-4 5-5
quan chi 6-4 6-4
raiden 7-3 6-4
reptile 6-4 5-5
rain 6-4 5-5
scorpion 7-3 7-3
sektor 5-5 5-5
shang 6-4 6-4
sheeva 7-3 7-3
sindel 6-4 7-3
skarlet 5-5 6-4
smoke 6-5 6-4
stryker 6-4 6-4
sub zero 5-5 4-6

sonya 174
cage 171

 

[The Borax Kid]

sorry for the delay

it look like only konker and thtb got what i am asking for lol

So both of them get $20 each then?

 

[Evil_Riu48]

So both of them get $20 each then?

lol i mean they understand what i am asking for