Match-up Discussion Johnny Cage: Official Matchup Discussion

[Peckapowa]

This is how I feel about Cage's MUs right now. I have not bothered with assigning a number to anything (except even MUs obviously).

Advantageous
Baraka
Cyber Sub-Zero
Ermac
Jade
Jax
Kano
Liu Kang
Mileena
Nightwolf
Quan Chi
Scorpion
Sheeva
Sindel
Smoke
Stryker

Possibly Advantageous
Noob
Raiden

Even
Cyrax
Kung Lao
Rain
Reptile
Sektor
Shang Tsung
Skarlet
Sonya

Disadvantageous
Freddy
Kabal
Kenshi
Kitana
Sub-Zero

What do other Cage players think?

he loses to sonya, goes even with kitana, goes even with baraka liu and smoke and potentially loses to shang/skarlet, i also imo think he goes even with raiden and noob is tough for noob up close but probabaly even due to spacing advantage, johny cage is not top tier.

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

he loses to sonya, goes even with kitana, goes even with baraka liu and smoke and potentially loses to shang/skarlet, i also imo think he goes even with raiden and noob is tough for noob up close but probabaly even due to spacing advantage, johny cage is not top tier.

I agree with everything except I believe he goes even with sonya, and noob is 6 4. Too many guesses in your favor. Also why do you believe he may lose to shang? I haven't heard that before.

 

[Peckapowa]

I agree with everything except I believe he goes even with sonya, and noob is 6 4. Too many guesses in your favor. Also why do you believe he may lose to shang? I haven't heard that before.

because woundcowboy makes it feel rough when everytime you try to get in u get frametrapped by his zoning, its probably even though i just need to play the mu better.

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

because woundcowboy makes it feel rough when everytime you try to get in u get frametrapped by his zoning, its probably even though i just need to play the mu better.

O yeah same happens to me when I play him. I think he is just a really good player. I will try to play him soon, I haven't in a while, and I will see what I think.

 

[crosstalk]

I trust Dizzy and 16bit's judgement on the Kitana MU, as they probably play it more than anyone. I just can't see Cage going even with Baraka though. Smoke's only hope in the MU is getting a life lead and playing it very lame. Raiden and Liu I can possibly see being even, but I'm still on the fence about them.

 

[Playpal]

My opinions

Adv:
scorpion, ermac, smoke (arguably even), mileena, jade, jax, stryker, kang (more than likely even, would like to play offline), lao, kano, nightwolf (no real experience), baraka (no real experience), quan, sheeva. All of them 6-4 except sheeva might be 7-3.

Disadv:
Kenshi and Kabal for sure, both maybe 3-7. Kabal might be 4-6 since only REO makes me think it's 3-7.

I'm still mixed on the freddy MU plus I need more experience. I'm probably the only JC player who still thinks cage beats lao. SZ and sonya arguably bad. Kitana arguably bad as well. Before it was 5-5 no question but kit players have leveled up. Every kit player also approaches the MU differently so it's hard to say.

 

[Dizzy]

Out of curiousness, why is Cage a bad MU for Mileena? She has a small hitbox and a solid projectile.

I also can't punish her EX Telekick with Cage, duck blocking and everything. I try d1 into f3 Nutpunch, d1 doesn't come out...

You punish EX telekick with duck blocking then doing standing 1.

 

[Playpal]

Forgot to add that JC beats Raiden.

 

[GLoRToR]

Jade 5-5.
He has to get in and when he's in she can still use her armor to her advantage. If he gets a lock on she has just as much a hard time getting out as he has getting in, but her damage potential makes him have to use that meter for breaker and he'll want to use meter once he's in to gain a life lead.

 

[Mikemetroid]

Jade 5-5.
He has to get in and when he's in she can still use her armor to her advantage. If he gets a lock on she has just as much a hard time getting out as he has getting in, but her damage potential makes him have to use that meter for breaker and he'll want to use meter once he's in to gain a life lead.

Cage does NOT have a hard time getting in to Jade. I can agree with the upclose EXglow shit though.

 

[GLoRToR]

Cage does NOT have a hard time getting in to Jade.

You just never played a Jade that knew the matchup. Cage is suffering to get in, trust me.

 

[Mikemetroid]

You just never played a Jade that knew the matchup. Cage is suffering to get in, trust me.

You must only play online.

 

[GLoRToR]

You must only play online.

Like a lot of high level players as well.
I haven't seen a high level Jade in the offline community yet. Jades I'm seeing are lacking one thing or another with potential to be high level, but trust me about this, Jade's keepout game makes it a 5-5 matchup for Cage.

 

[Qwark28]

You just never played a Jade that knew the matchup. Cage is suffering to get in, trust me.

How about all the times when i had no trouble getting in?

 

[Mikemetroid]

Like a lot of high level players as well.
I haven't seen a high level Jade in the offline community yet. Jades I'm seeing are lacking one thing or another with potential to be high level, but trust me about this, Jade's keepout game makes it a 5-5 matchup for Cage.

I've seen Blackula play Jade offline plenty of times, I've seen BDmao, probably some others here and there (no one really does play this character). All she has is that armor upclose. Her keep away game isn't that good, You get close and what you expect them to fall for the U3 or some other string that can easily be whiff punished?

I'm not tryin to put you on blast, I'm just saying Jade does not have a great keep away game.

 

[Qwark28]

Like a lot of high level players as well.
I haven't seen a high level Jade in the offline community yet. Jades I'm seeing are lacking one thing or another with potential to be high level, but trust me about this, Jade's keepout game makes it a 5-5 matchup for Cage.

STB Goldfish
AestheticLove
STB TakeAChance
Blackula

AT EM GIRLS

 

[AestheticLove]

I think it's 4-6 but i mean it's not that bad especially when she has meter.

 

[GLoRToR]

I've seen Blackula play Jade offline plenty of times, I've seen BDmao, probably some others here and there (no one really does play this character). All she has is that armor upclose. Her keep away game isn't that good, You get close and what you expect them to fall for the U3 or some other string that can easily be whiff punished?

I'm not tryin to put you on blast, I'm just saying Jade does not have a great keep away game.

I know you aren't attacking me, this is a forum for discussions and I'm happy to provide my point of view whether I am right or not. I firmly believe that you just don't see the character, much like most other people in the community.
She does. It's the staff. Within a certain range Cage is free to Jade and he is forced to blockdash. If he doesn't block, he gets blown up for a full combo. When he blocks, Jade has several options that give enough pushback for her to be able to back away AND gain meter while doing so. At the highest level of Jade the spacing of her moves keeps Cage guessing whether he should block or move and as her moves are all 0 on block and she's constantly building meter while Cage is not in, by the time he gets in he has to really apply himself to get in f3 range. Cage cannot zone Jade, nor can he play the "jump in and punish a boomerang" game with a high level Jade player.
The fact that you claim that she does not have a great keepout game is the proof of that you haven't seen anybody play her spacing game properly just yet. I'm not a high level player but I doubt there is one person out there who has played more games or spent more time looking at her than myself. I would love to have somebody on REO's level , PL himself or whoever else, pick her up and make the best of her and then see where she'll be placed in the tier list just for shits and giggles.

 

[TakeAChance]

Jade Cage is 4-6 for Cage. GLoRToR I used to think in a similar way as you about the matchup, unfortunately when you play high level cage, (I played Maxter's Cage offline at Toryuken) you can really see where she struggles in the matchup. REO and @PerfectLegend could not pick up Jade and win tournaments with her. She lacks the tools needed to compete at those levels. She is a GOOD and fun character, but she is not tournament viable. As far as Cage goes, here is my breakdown of why cage wins the matchup.

1)F3 is faster than any of jades strings minus d3 and d1. It stuffs 1,2 and has greater range than 1,2.

2) You cannot keep Cage out with boomerags.

3) Cage's Whiff punishing is so good, that you will be afraid to use Jades spacing against a good cage. One whiffed b2, or u3, and cage is in your face f3'ing you.

4) No gtfo me tool outside of glow. Glow often gets stuffed.

5) Cage is a low hitbox character. 1 whiffs high, 2 whiffs high (sometimes), F2 whiffs high, the only options you have for reliable pressure is d3 and F4. F43 is unsafe and is a free f3 for Cage, F4 shadow kick is duckable, F4 staff grab and rangs become your only options. Blocked d3's are given a free d3. This really limits Jades options.

6) Jade cannot keep up to Cage's damage. If Cage gets the life lead, he can easily make you come to him, which is exactly what he wants you to do.

Jade doesn't have the normals to compete in the matchup. She has the range, but all cage has to do is bait that range out by shuffling in and out.

 

[crosstalk]

Any tips on the Cage-Cyrax MU? Should you always block high when advancing on Cyrax to avoid the buzzsaw midscreen/up close? What's the best way to advance on him and pressure him?

I tend to shadow kick midscreen when Cyrax throws out a bomb for guaranteed damage, is this a good idea or no?

 

[Mikemetroid]

Any tips on the Cage-Cyrax MU? Should you always block high when advancing on Cyrax to avoid the buzzsaw midscreen/up close? What's the best way to advance on him and pressure him?

I tend to shadow kick midscreen when Cyrax throws out a bomb for guaranteed damage, is this a good idea or no?

The real trick is being able to get him into the corner with the Shadow Kicks.

I like throwing the shadow kicks because they will have to respect the fact that as soon as they open their chest they can get shadow kicked. The other nonsense you have to sometimes bait and make him whiff.

All cryax's are very different. So you have to adjust to their playstyle. PND_Mustard Maxter GGA HAN all play amazing yet very different Cyraxes

 

[crosstalk]

The real trick is being able to get him into the corner with the Shadow Kicks.

I like throwing the shadow kicks because they will have to respect the fact that as soon as they open their chest they can get shadow kicked. The other nonsense you have to sometimes bait and make him whiff.

All cryax's are very different. So you have to adjust to their playstyle. PND_Mustard Maxter GGA HAN all play amazing yet very different Cyraxes

Yeah I played against Denzell's Cyrax at Dallas. I was pretty risky with shadow kicks expecting him to walk back and got punished hard when he blocked. I also jumped a little too much and got air thrown haha. When approaching Cyrax at about midscreen he liked to use d3 and d4 a lot, as well as buzzsaw. It's almost like dealing with SZ's d4/f4 at this range, except buzzsaw is a lot less punishable. Perhaps using b3 or my own d3 can beat the pokes. What do you guys use to get past Cyrax's pokes/buzzsaw at this range?

 

[Mikemetroid]

Yeah I played against Denzell's Cyrax at Dallas. I was pretty risky with shadow kicks expecting him to walk back and got punished hard when he blocked. I also jumped a little too much and got air thrown haha. When approaching Cyrax at about midscreen he liked to use d3 and d4 a lot, as well as buzzsaw. It's almost like dealing with SZ's d4/f4 at this range, except buzzsaw is a lot less punishable. Perhaps using b3 or my own d3 can beat the pokes. What do you guys use to get past Cyrax's pokes/buzzsaw at this range?

I try to 44 or counter poke. The Buzzsaw is something i'm still thinking over myself...

 

[Dizzy]

It is possible to whiff punish the saw with dash in f3 as the saw is retracting if he's throwing it out as a keepaway tool.

Its not fast so the cyrax has to throw it out in anticipation that you will come in at that time.

 

[PND_Mustard]

The real trick is being able to get him into the corner with the Shadow Kicks.

I like throwing the shadow kicks because they will have to respect the fact that as soon as they open their chest they can get shadow kicked. The other nonsense you have to sometimes bait and make him whiff.

All cryax's are very different. So you have to adjust to their playstyle. PND_Mustard Maxter GGA HAN all play amazing yet very different Cyraxes

why do you always have the best signatures?