Match-up Discussion Johnny Cage: Official Matchup Discussion

[Mikemetroid]

I played around with reflect mindgames as well, once they figure out that they can just trade with you your done. Me and mike have been saying to use a lot of 11 strings due to his hitbopx, and lots of throws. Thats all we got for right now sadly.

The other thing to the matchup is patience....lots and lots of patience...You want Kenshi to waste all his meter then you can get in and toy with Kenshi's blind high hitbox self.

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

The other thing to the matchup is patience....lots and lots of patience...You want Kenshi to waste all his meter then you can get in and toy with Kenshi's blind high hitbox self.

How exactly do we get him to do that though? He has no reason to really use the meter except armor, which you have to crossover to beat because of exsc frame advantage.

 

[Mikemetroid]

How exactly do we get him to do that though? He has no reason to really use the meter except armor, which you have to crossover to beat because of exsc frame advantage.

If there is a chance he completely whiffs an armored move and you cross over to do a combo, most likely they will break... Unless they were really smart about it,

 

[Soul Bound X]

is the reptile match really as bad as foxy says? 7-3?

 

[Mikemetroid]

is the reptile match really as bad as foxy says? 7-3?

Hell no! Shit is even!

 

[Soul Bound X]

Hell no! Shit is even!

lol okay, that sounds more right

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

So... we lost some stuff here.... time to get the discussion going again. how do people feel about the kung lao matchup? It is either 5 5 or adv cage in my opinion.... It is a matchup that requires patience... and pretty good reactions though. You have to change your spacing to deal with divekick crossovers and the you can still push him to the corner. Kls s.2 is a good answer to fwd3 so getting in with d4 and d3 is essential. On a side note.... at first this matchup can seem annoying and tedious but once you understand exactly what the meta game is, it can be a really fun time. Ranges from fast to slow paced and heavily spacing based or both characters going kind of crazy. HGTV Ermacio i play you a lot in this mu, anything you want to add?

 

[Matador Fiend]

Sorry I am sure this has been covered somewhere, but can Lao spin F3 after a forceball trap or is this online shenanigans? I recently started using Cage and this has been happening consistently so I just block or D3.

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

Sorry I am sure this has been covered somewhere, but can Lao spin F3 after a forceball trap or is this online shenanigans? I recently started using Cage and this has been happening consistently so I just block or D3.

Technically no ex fb is plus 5 and fwd3 is 9 frames, so they would have 4 frames to interrupt, and spin is 6. It could be online, or it could be that you arent inputting fwd3 early enough. One of the important things to do with cage is learn to just frame (as close as possible at least) your next move after all your pressure options. It is basic, easy to learn (just some experimentation and then muscle memory) and will make your pressure even harder to escape.

 

[GLoRToR]

Cage VS Jade:
Get in or be beaten. Cage doesn't really have too many uphill fights and in all honesty Jade is not exactly one of them either, but an experienced Jade can go toe to toe with Cage, so the Cage player needs to know this matchup or even the better players may feel that getting in on the green girl is problematic. Once Cage is in Jade's face his frame traps make it hard for her to do anything of worth unless she has meter, but if she does manage to keep her out, or catches him in a combo off of EnGlow she can get back in saddle or even gain the upper hand. Jade's strategy here, thus, would be gaining enough meter and then baiting that pressure to counter him while forcing Cage to break enough times so that for when the time to kill comes, he has nothing left. Cage excels where Jade is weak: in the face. So this matchup can be set as 6-4, though debatably it could be 5-5 because Jade actually has the tools and I don't feel Cage to have too much advantage: this fight is about the meter.

 

[CheapEddie]

Guys, that will be a stupid question but...
That F3 random advantage on c.block is not a joke? I always thought it is.

 

[crosstalk]

I used to think Cage-Lao was in Cage's favor, but now I believe it's even. 21 is just too good of a tool, as it can interrupt Cage's pressure and wins in footsies for the most part. Low pokes and perhaps uppercuts are good options, but those can be stuffed by spin if the Lao player reads them. Spin obviously needs to be respected as well when Lao is being pressured. He doesn't need to rely on teleport on this MU, or at least not throw them out stupidly, which Cage can easily blow up. Overall it feels like an even MU to me.

Currently I still think Cage's bad MUs are Kabal (3-7), Kenshi (3-7), Freddy (4-6), and Sub-Zero (4-6).

 

[Mikemetroid]

I used to think Cage-Lao was in Cage's favor, but now I believe it's even. 21 is just too good of a tool, as it can interrupt Cage's pressure and wins in footsies for the most part. Low pokes and perhaps uppercuts are good options, but those can be stuffed by spin if the Lao player reads them. Spin obviously needs to be respected as well when Lao is being pressured. He doesn't need to rely on teleport on this MU, or at least not throw them out stupidly, which Cage can easily blow up. Overall it feels like an even MU to me.

Currently I still think Cage's bad MUs are Kabal (3-7), Kenshi (3-7), Freddy (4-6), and Sub-Zero (4-6).

Yes and I think Kabal is 6-4. Just like he uses a rhythm, you have to use a rhythm. His flash parry can be dealt with and you ALWAYS have to predict the fact that mid zoning they will just dash up to you and try to hit you. 1 beats regular dash, and you can hit confirm 1 into a nut punch.

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

I used to think Cage-Lao was in Cage's favor, but now I believe it's even. 21 is just too good of a tool, as it can interrupt Cage's pressure and wins in footsies for the most part. Low pokes and perhaps uppercuts are good options, but those can be stuffed by spin if the Lao player reads them. Spin obviously needs to be respected as well when Lao is being pressured. He doesn't need to rely on teleport on this MU, or at least not throw them out stupidly, which Cage can easily blow up. Overall it feels like an even MU to me.

Currently I still think Cage's bad MUs are Kabal (3-7), Kenshi (3-7), Freddy (4-6), and Sub-Zero (4-6).

I agree about kung lao..... d4 is your best friend against that 21. I also agree with Mikemetroid about kabal.... although for the dash just d3, that way you will still crouch the iagb, so they only thing that will catch you is a saw. For the record, if anyone doesnt know, to beat a flash parry you just have to finish the fwd3 string into at least fwd33, or you can do the whole thing. He wastes a bar and has to block or be hit.

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

Also, against kabal..... YOU MUST LEAVE HIM GROUNDED WHENEVER HE HAS BREAKER. If he breaks in the air he will dash back into open space. Yes, you are giving 10 to 15 percent up in damage but it is worth it. If you catch him with a d1 into juggle consider even letting him drop if he has his back to the corner. Close to midscreen, let him break, but positioning is key in this matchup and you must create a situation where he is forced to give up his meter advantage while not gaining the positional advantage.

 

[Chuckychuck]

Also, against kabal..... YOU MUST LEAVE HIM GROUNDED WHENEVER HE HAS BREAKER. If he breaks in the air he will dash back into open space. Yes, you are giving 10 to 15 percent up in damage but it is worth it. If you catch him with a d1 into juggle consider even letting him drop if he has his back to the corner. Close to midscreen, let him break, but positioning is key in this matchup and you must create a situation where he is forced to give up his meter advantage while not gaining the positional advantage.

As a former Sub player I cannot stress this advice enough.

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

As a former Sub player I cannot stress this advice enough.

I learned it from playing sub too lol. Its actually crazy how many things from playing sub transfer over to cage.

 

[RTM2004]

Is Cage vs Sonya really a 5-5 or 4-6?

Why is Sonya such a pain to fight against as Cage when the other around he's easier to fight against as Sonya? I'm not taking about her Ex Cartwheel armor obviously, it's the other foolish things she has like the 7f jab, 7f uppercut, Dive Kick, D4~MSF1 at +1, 4 and her high damage.

 

[Skitzo]

I see Cage v. Sonya 5-5.

 

[crosstalk]

To me Sonya is kind of like the KL MU where both Cage and the opponent have a variety of tools to stop the other character from using theirs. It's not like Kenshi, Kabal, or Sub where Cage can become pretty much defenseless against some of their options. In the end Sonya/KL comes down to a careful mid range and close range game.

 

[Dizzy]

Is Cage vs Sonya really a 5-5 or 4-6?

Why is Sonya such a pain to fight against as Cage when the other around he's easier to fight against as Sonya? I'm not taking about her Ex Cartwheel armor obviously, it's the other foolish things she has like the 7f jab, 7f uppercut, Dive Kick, D4~MSF1 at +1, 4 and her high damage.

It will always just be a matter of opinion on whether it is 4-6 or 5-5, there is strong talking points on both sides.

 

[crosstalk]

GGA Dizzy have any of Cage's MUs changed in your opinion? I know 16 bit thinks the Kitana MU is 6-4 in her favor, which I can definitely see.

 

[ForeverKing]

I used to think Cage-Lao was in Cage's favor, but now I believe it's even. 21 is just too good of a tool, as it can interrupt Cage's pressure and wins in footsies for the most part. Low pokes and perhaps uppercuts are good options, but those can be stuffed by spin if the Lao player reads them. Spin obviously needs to be respected as well when Lao is being pressured. He doesn't need to rely on teleport on this MU, or at least not throw them out stupidly, which Cage can easily blow up. Overall it feels like an even MU to me.

Currently I still think Cage's bad MUs are Kabal (3-7), Kenshi (3-7), Freddy (4-6), and Sub-Zero (4-6).

Cage doesn't lose to Sub-Zero. Both characters make eachother play equally cautious and patient. I think it's 5-5. Yeah Sub can put up clones, but once Cage is in he is in lol

 

[crosstalk]

Cage doesn't lose to Sub-Zero. Both characters make eachother play equally cautious and patient. I think it's 5-5. Yeah Sub can put up clones, but once Cage is in he is in lol

True, I just think that Cage has a harder time coming back when Sub has the life lead. It's tough for Cage to get out of the corner too.

 

[Dizzy]

GGA Dizzy have any of Cage's MUs changed in your opinion? I know 16 bit thinks the Kitana MU is 6-4 in her favor, which I can definitely see.

I still think he has all the same bad matchups as I've said before, including Kitana which I've always said has been a disadvantage MU.

He doesn't stack up too well against most of the higher tier chars. You're going to have to do some outplaying or they are going to have to be unskilled/unfamiliar at the matchup for you to win.