Mortal Kombat (2011) Matchup Chart

[CY MasterHavik]

How about the name of the characters dude?

 

[Mechacide]

I've heard that Reptile can Dash to interrupt Raiden's strings. If that's true, surely any i6 or faster move could do the same.

 

[M2Dave]

Something HAD to be done about the upball, but the knife nerf went too far.

I agree.

Kano is a zoning character at heart, but it's harder to zone now because of obvious reasons. He is supposed to play more of a rush down game, but that is not really his game. His mix ups, albeit solid, are not spectacular while his damage output is one of the lowest in the game. There are undoubtedly weaker characters than Kano in the game, but NRS has definitely dropped the ball (no pun intended) on Kano. Why they are taking balance feedback from online players is beyond me. Up ball needed to be less safe on block. That is all that needed to be changed. I hope we do not see any unnecessary nerfs in the next patch while Kung Lao remains the same character.

I've heard that Reptile can Dash to interrupt Raiden's strings. If that's true, surely any i6 or faster move could do the same.

You can use 6 frame d+1 and d+3 (but it is tough) and any enhanced armor attack including X-Rays. Raiden's strings are not very strong to make up for the fact that he has access to the safest teleport in the game.

 

[16 Bit]

I've heard that Reptile can Dash to interrupt Raiden's strings. If that's true, surely any i6 or faster move could do the same.

Yes, I know Kitana can d+1 inbetween the second hit of b+3,1,2 and the last hit of 3,3,4. Cyber Sub-Zero can self freeze.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Right now we have 2 number 6's and 3 number 8's.

I really want to debate nw vs Kung Lao being 3-7. 6-4 at best...also vs kabal being 4-6. Any thoughts or disputes?

 

[Konqrr]

Right now we have 2 number 6's and 3 number 8's.

I really want to debate nw vs Kung Lao being 3-7. 6-4 at best...also vs kabal being 4-6. Any thoughts or disputes?

Awesome! Go discuss it in the new Nightwolf Matchup Discussion Thread!

 

[M2Dave]

I really want to debate nw vs Kung Lao being 3-7. 6:4 at best...

Did you get the chance to play REO's Kung Lao at Evo? He has vs. Nightwolf experience.

I think it's 7:3 in favor of Kung Lao. Kung Lao has the advantage up close. Better pokes. Better mix up. Better defense. Nightwolf can't zone Kung Lao. Arrow is punishable on reaction by instant dive kicks. Lightning is punishable full screen away via instant dive kick + dash + 1,1,2~spin. Kung Lao has the easiest shoulder whiff punish in the game too. Just crouch without blocking and let it spin. I also believe all ex lightning set ups are escapable and punishable with Kung Lao's wake up teleport. So, you get beat up close. You can't zone. You can't rely on shoulder and lightning. All ex lightning set ups are risky. What you are left with is a 7:3 match up.

Nightwolf vs. Kabal is a more appropriate example of a 4:6 match up, so I agree with you on that.

 

[THTB]

No need for the code, since edit mode/quoting gives you the entire actual text.

 

[Mechacide]

So if Raiden has seemingly useless strings for the most-part, exactly what is so good about him, other than the Superman_Teleport mixup?

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Did you get the chance to play REO's Kung Lao at Evo? He has vs. Nightwolf experience.

I think it's 7:3 in favor of Kung Lao. Kung Lao has the advantage up close. Better pokes. Better mix up. Better defense. Nightwolf can't zone Kung Lao. Arrow is punishable on reaction by instant dive kicks. Lightning is punishable full screen away via instant dive kick + dash + 1,1,2~spin. Kung Lao has the easiest shoulder whiff punish in the game too. Just crouch without blocking and let it spin. I also believe all ex lightning set ups are escapable and punishable with Kung Lao's wake up teleport. So, you get beat up close. You can't zone. You can't rely on shoulder and lightning. All ex lightning set ups are risky. What you are left with is a 7:3 match up.

Nightwolf vs. Kabal is a more appropriate example of a 4:6 match up, so I agree with you on that.

Yea but I can say the same thing for nw...

Spin is unsafe on block. Nw gets full combo for 40%. Teleport gets punished by uppercut EVERY time if not a juggle combo. Reflect keeps low hats from across screen. Poke out of block string pressure with d1 or d3. Can link hatchet into d1 to get get space or even a juggle. You need to respect the shoulder...neutral crouch won't work on good nw player...Dash in f3 or dash in hatchet takes care of them. Eh lightning trap works great on Lao...he HAS to burn meter to get out of it it he has no meter it's all day and 60-70% of his life is gone or he breakers which again gives him no meter. Nw block string 1221 is safe on block and can be used to bait all day.

I didn't play reo but I played Brady. I still say 6-4.

 

[Konqrr]

Yea but I can say the same thing for nw...

Spin is unsafe on block. Nw gets full combo for 40%. Teleport gets punished by uppercut EVERY time if not a juggle combo. Reflect keeps low hats from across screen. Poke out of block string pressure with d1 or d3. Can link hatchet into d1 to get get space or even a juggle. You need to respect the shoulder...neutral crouch won't work on good nw player...Dash in f3 or dash in hatchet takes care of them. Eh lightning trap works great on Lao...he HAS to burn meter to get out of it it he has no meter it's all day and 60-70% of his life is gone or he breakers which again gives him no meter. Nw block string 1221 is safe on block and can be used to bait all day.

I didn't play reo but I played Brady. I still say 6-4.

Just the fact that Kung Lao negates the use of Nightwolf's lightning traps with teleport (which are done on reaction), makes Nightwolf have to play with less tools. He doesn't have to burn meter to get out, normal teleport works just fine and gives him a full punish for 40-45% with one bar. That shuts down all lightning traps. You try to use lightning after reflecting a low hat which Lao blocks, he does instant whiff dive kick then dash in and 112~spin combo for 35-40%.

What does that leave Nightwolf with? Shoulder and f3 mixups. Both of those moves have to be used with the fear of being punished by a spin, you have to respect it.

I'd lean more towards 6.5-3.5 Lao.

 

[M2Dave]

Yea but I can say the same thing for nw...

Spin is unsafe on block. Nw gets full combo for 40%. Teleport gets punished by uppercut EVERY time if not a juggle combo. Reflect keeps low hats from across screen. Poke out of block string pressure with d1 or d3. Can link hatchet into d1 to get get space or even a juggle. You need to respect the shoulder...neutral crouch won't work on good nw player...Dash in f3 or dash in hatchet takes care of them. Eh lightning trap works great on Lao...he HAS to burn meter to get out of it it he has no meter it's all day and 60-70% of his life is gone or he breakers which again gives him no meter. Nw block string 1221 is safe on block and can be used to bait all day.

I didn't play reo but I played Brady. I still say 6-4.

- the "spin is unsafe on block" arguments have to stop on MKU and TYM. Of course, it is unsafe, but you have to respect the move. The vast majority of characters, including Nightwolf, get 40% combos after blocking the spin. That is roughly the same damage Kung Lao gets using one bar once the spin connects. Unless your character is Kitana or Cyrax, the use of intelligent spins is in Kung Lao's favor. Besides, because Kung Lao builds so much super meter that he can use on combo breakers, sometimes there are no risks at all to the spin.

- Kung Lao does not need to use teleports against Nightwolf. He can simply instant dive kick to get close without any consequences. Arrows and lightnings are a non-issue for Kung Lao.

- Not that he needs to play that kind of game, Kung Lao can bait the reflect by changing the trajectory of the regular hat toss and then instant dive kick to get close without any consequences.

- Neutral crouching works for Kung Lao because his shoulder whiff punishment is easy and consistent. A whiffed shoulder probably leaves Nightwolf at -20. Kung Lao's spin is 6 frames fast. Do the math.

- wake up teleports avoid ex lightning traps after connected shoulders.

- if every character could simply "poke out of block string pressure with d+1 or d+3", Kung Lao would actually be a high mid tier character.

I have said it before and I will say it again. When played at a high level, Kung Lao is Johnny Cage with a great projectile and excellent mobility. I have played Perfect Legend, REO, and other solid Kung Lao players and I say Kung Lao is a bull shit character. Kung Lao's supreme versatility makes Cyrax's 70% combos look balanced. I had rather fight Cyrax and get cheated by the combos than fight Kung Lao.

 

[Evil_Riu48]

johnny cage vs cyrax 6-4 cage?
cage vs sub 4-6?
cage vs smoke 6-4?

is there any johnny cage with experience at high level against this characters helping on this?

i think you guys mean
cage cyrax 5-5
cage vs sub 3-7
cage vs smoke 5-5

guys there is a lot of things which look better or worst on paper than they really are

 

[DanCock]

Correct me if I'm wrong but raiden can do 3 or back 3 and then cancel into teleport or torpedo which in turn scares people to not try to interrupt his combo strings.


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[aj1701]

Why they are taking balance feedback from online players is beyond me.

i'm not saying whether its right or wrong, but I think it goes something like this:

# of "casual" players > # of tournament players.

And probably by a long shot. They can't ignore online, or people won't buy the next MK.

 

[M2Dave]

So if Raiden has seemingly useless strings for the most-part, exactly what is so good about him, other than the Superman_Teleport mixup?

I would not say that he has useless strings. Not every character has the ability to blow through his strings consistently and reliably. Besides, there is always f+2,4 which is a tight string that can be hit confirmed into superman.

Raiden is just solid. You cannot zone or trap Raiden because of the teleport. Teleports are very difficult to punish when used correctly.
Superman gives him access to a full screen wake up attack and great punishing. Ex superman is yet another anti-fireball tool. Raiden is a top tier character who has some weaknesses unlike someone else I know.

Correct me if I'm wrong but raiden can do 3 or back 3 and then cancel into teleport or torpedo which in turn scares people to not try to interrupt his combo strings.

You can cancel into d,f+2 which takes care of all interruptions and juggles but is very unsafe. The teleport depends on the character and the move. For example, if Reptile tries to interrupt with b,f+2 and Raiden does b+3~teleport, Reptile's inputs are reversed. Reptile ends up doing a standing 2 which Raiden has to block after canceling the teleport.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Ok konqerr...I see your point...I still don't hink that makes it 7-3. I see the 6.5-4.5 maybe but it is more realistic at a 6-4. You said "if everyone could poke out of pressure". In fact I think they can!

That's what pokes are for. I get what your saying but i still thnk Kung Lao is beatable...if u punish every low hat and if u punish every telort. Maybe it's just me. I played reo online today(yes online is bullshit) but I never felt out gunned. Meeeehh. I just don't understand what the problem is

 

[Konqrr]

Ok konqerr...I see your point...I still don't hink that makes it 7-3. I see the 6.5-4.5 maybe but it is more realistic at a 6-4. You said "if everyone could poke out of pressure". In fact I think they can!

That's what pokes are for. I get what your saying but i still thnk Kung Lao is beatable...if u punish every low hat and if u punish every telort. Maybe it's just me. I played reo online today(yes online is bullshit) but I never felt out gunned. Meeeehh. I just don't understand what the problem is

Well, you are an exceptional player.

That is where knowing matchups and making reads comes into play, where even though you have a bad matchup, you can win it if you play your cards right. It's what makes this game so great.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Haha thanks but that's not what I was getting at. I just want to make sure the chart is accurate and not based on opinions.

 

[Raiman]

I would not say that he has useless strings. Not every character has the ability to blow through his strings consistently and reliably. Besides, there is always f+2,4 which is a tight string that can be hit confirmed into superman.

Raiden is just solid. You cannot zone or trap Raiden because of the teleport. Teleports are very difficult to punish when used correctly.
Superman gives him access to a full screen wake up attack and great punishing. Ex superman is yet another anti-fireball tool. Raiden is a top tier character who has some weaknesses unlike someone else I know.

You can cancel into d,f+2 which takes care of all interruptions and juggles but is very unsafe. The teleport depends on the character and the move. For example, if Reptile tries to interrupt with b,f+2 and Raiden does b+3~teleport, Reptile's inputs are reversed. Reptile ends up doing a standing 2 which Raiden has to block after canceling the teleport.

not to mention he doesn't even have to try and gues to interupt raidens string, reptile can just sit back and wait for the teleport and dash on reaction, knowing raiden cant hit him with vicinity blast pressure. Reptile is just hell for Raiden in so many ways

 

[shoshinsha]

Gotta say, I love Raiden, but I'm having a hard time seeing how he gets the #1 spot with Kung Lao and Reptile also contending for it.

 

[RWDY Nori]

Gotta say, I love Raiden, but I'm having a hard time seeing how he gets the #1 spot with Kung Lao and Reptile also contending for it.

It's cause he's not number 1. I just don't see it. Raiden has to work much harder for wins than people think. So does KL. It's interesting that nobody is mentioning Kabal as the possible best, he has EVERYTHING he needs to win and more.

 

[shoshinsha]

It's cause he's not number 1. I just don't see it. Raiden has to work much harder for wins than people think. So does KL. It's interesting that nobody is mentioning Kabal as the possible best, he has EVERYTHING he needs to win and more.

I think Kabal has to work harder for his wins than almost anyone else in the top tier. Yes, he has an answer for everything, but it's not a braindead "lolspin" or "lolelbowdash" answer. If anything, Kabal is probably one of the most well-balanced characters in the game. In the hands of a competent player, he can compete against any of the cast without unfairly dominating. In the hands of a scrub, he's middle-of-the-road at best.

 

[D. R.]

If you play Raiden very lame and turtle, yes, he's number one. You can't lock him down and you are not going to react to his teleport 100%, contrary to what people say. He builds meter quickly and has a fullscreen punish that has armor with meter that pushes you towards the corner. He has decent pressure strings as well ending in Vicinity Blast or dash throw or overhead. He can pick his moments to attack, then sit back and wait for a mistake. You don't have to be constant rushdown to be successful in MK9 with Raiden. Just watch how JOP plays him. Minus a few Superman attempts, that's Raiden 101.

 

[M2Dave]

I also don't think Raiden is the best character. Raiden definitely loses to Reptile. I believe Kung Lao and Johnny Cage have minor advantages over Raiden as well.

I really like Kung Lao as number 1, Reptile as number 2, and then Kabal, Cyrax, Raiden, Johnny Cage, and Kitana as numbers 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7 in no particular order. To me, Cyber Sub Zero is the most underrated character.

Characters like Sheeva, Baraka, Quan Chi, Sindel, etc. need buffs.