UMK3 Tier list discussion

[ded]

i remember few years ago while i played mk2, scorpion was my best character, and i could never win using him vs one guy, but i could won if i use everyone else. that doesnt mean scorpion is low tier...

what you guys have to understand is that the tier list is not based on individual skills.

 

[Derek]

what you guys have to understand is that the tier list is not based on individual skills.

Well obviously this tier list isn't based on individual skills because no other tier list for any other game is. However this one still isn't accurate enough to be dubbed a "Official Tier" list when it's so disputed among current top players. DC thinks it's inaccurate same for Dubson, Crazy Dominican, MistaKM, Myself, ABC ur Dead and I'm sure a lot of others. If this many decent to extremely good people think it's inaccurate for todays players then odds are it is. This is not 1995. Hell this isn't 2005. Things change as the game and the way it's played evolve. The thing is we haven't found out everything there is to this game so it can and most likely will continue to change and placement of characters will be shaken up.

 

[Konqrr]

Well obviously this tier list isn't based on individual skills because no other tier list for any other game is. However this one still isn't accurate enough to be dubbed a "Official Tier" list when it's so disputed among current top players. DC thinks it's inaccurate same for Dubson, Crazy Dominican, MistaKM, Myself, ABC ur Dead and I'm sure a lot of others. If this many decent to extremely good people think it's inaccurate for todays players then odds are it is. This is not 1995. Hell this isn't 2005. Things change as the game and the way it's played evolve. The thing is we haven't found out everything there is to this game so it can and most likely will continue to change and placement of characters will be shaken up.

QFT ^

Scorp is still > uSub

 

[Derek]

QFT ^

Scorp is still > uSub

Stick to your crappy puns Konqueer. =P

 

[Shock]

Name all the characters on the list that are at least 2 spots away, up or down, from what you think is right.

 

[ded]

This is not 1995. Hell this isn't 2005. Things change as the game and the way it's played evolve. The thing is we haven't found out everything there is to this game so it can and most likely will continue to change and placement of characters will be shaken up.

what have you found that changes the gameplay? ex?

 

[Derek]

Name all the characters on the list that are at least 2 spots away, up or down, from what you think is right.

It's just easier to list my personal opinion and my person tier list but it's not like it will matter anyhow because you have your own opinion and no one can seem to change it unless it's Lex, Moe or Ded.

1. Kabal
2. H. Smoke
3. Kung
4. Ermac
5. Nightwolf
6. R. Smoke
7. Reptile(HE'S TOO FUCKING HARD TO USE AND YOU FUCKING KNOW IT!)
8. Kano
9. Sindel
10. Sonya
11. Kitana
12. Stryker
13. Jax
14. U. Sub
15. Scorpion
16. Mileena
17. Jade
18. Sektor
19. C. Sub
20. Sheeva
21. Liu Kang
22. Shang
23. Cyrax

what have you found that changes the gameplay? ex?

I guess you misunderstood me, I said that the gameplay has changed over the years, evolution.It will continue to do so. I never said I have found something that changed the gameplay.

 

[dubson]

The biggest problem with some of you is, your not realizing that there is a HUGE difference between online and offline tier lists.

Competitive fighting game scenes NEVER base any tier list or factual information based on netplay. Thats how it will always be.

Online tier lists and offline tier lists are going to differ.

So basically, online players are going to look at offline players tier lists as questionable as offline players looking at online players tier lists.

 

[Shock]

"unless it's Lex, Moe or Ded."

Don't forget Thrower

 

[O Juggernaut 0]

The biggest problem with some of you is, your not realizing that there is a HUGE difference between online and offline tier lists.

Competitive fighting game scenes NEVER base any tier list or factual information based on netplay. Thats how it will always be.

Online tier lists and offline tier lists are going to differ.

So basically, online players are going to look at offline players tier lists as questionable as offline players looking at online players tier lists.

QFT

I still don't get what the big deal is with Tier Lists. I only go by my own personal experience, only when I was a new player did I use the Tier List.

 

[skateblind]

At the end of the day it doesn't matter, because if I am shit with Kabal then he wont be very high on my personal tier list, it all depends on the player. Nobody is going play perfectly with all of the characters, therefore a tier list like this is just for begginers and amusement.

I think it would be a good idea to get the top 10 or 20 players on this site or other sites to submit their own personal tier lists and then average out all the positions of the characters and put it on the forum next to the official tier list. That way we can find out what the elite actually think and see where that matches up with the current one.

I doubt that will ever happen since it will take a bit of time and it will be hard to find 20 elite players that actually give a damn...

It was interesting to chat about the list, but I think it is getting a bit too serious now, its just a game at the end of the day, a good one, but nothing we need to lose hair over.

 

[Tim Static]

The biggest problem with some of you is, your not realizing that there is a HUGE difference between online and offline tier lists.

Competitive fighting game scenes NEVER base any tier list or factual information based on netplay. Thats how it will always be.

Online tier lists and offline tier lists are going to differ.

So basically, online players are going to look at offline players tier lists as questionable as offline players looking at online players tier lists.

Word.

There should be 2 tier lists. A laggy version and a lag free version.

I am geting tired of this Tier list discussion. Shut the fuck up and play. Its Xbox Live, so it will never be taken serious as a form of high level play.

 

[StuScotsLazyEye]

Tim just STFU and play. Take this shit seriously you CBJ noob.

 

[Tim Static]

Tim just STFU and play. Take this shit seriously you CBJ noob.

 

[DC HUSTLE 106]

1. Kabal
2. Human Smoke
3. Kung Lao
4. Ermac
5. Robo Smoke
6. Nightwolf
7. Kitana
8. Reptile
9. Sonya
10. Stryker
11. Sindel
12. Jax
13. Kano
14. Unmasked Sub-zero
15. Jade
16. Scorpion
17. Sheeva
18. cyrax
19. sektor
20. mileena
21. classic sub zero
22. liu kang
23. Shang Tsung

This is my list.

 

[mistaKM]

I like urs dc, that's very close to the one that you,Dubson and I discussed the other day. I have it written down, but our top ten went the same besides where reptile is. We had Stryker at 8, sonya at 9, and reptile at 10, I believe.

 

[Shock]

There's never going to be an real netplay tier list because there are different degrees of delay, lag, frame skip, and overall netplay issues, or depending on how much there is, affects specific characters more than others. A lot of people don't realize that my person tier list is different than what is listed on this site as well, it's just preference, not math or game science.

It is obvious though, that the more tactical charcters suffer online. Characters with tactics that are quite reliable and effective in normal play, are being shoved down for no reason other than this is what you guys experience online.

Side note, has anyone noticed with Sektor on XBLA version, you can't do a dumb missile after a smart missile? I haven't fully tested it, but can someone see if there are issues with it? There aren't in the arcade, and if he can't do this (fire dumb missiles while smart missiles are out) that hurts him. I noticed he can't in arcade MK3 and PSX MKT.

 

[9.95]

Side note, has anyone noticed with Sektor on XBLA version, you can't do a dumb missile after a smart missile? I haven't fully tested it, but can some see if there are issues with it? There aren't in the arcade, and he can't always do this, that hurts him. I noticed he can't in arcade MK3 and PSX MKT.

This is what you had problems with at summoning's house that night, right?

 

[Pink Godzilla]

Huh, I don't recall ever not being able to do a dumb missile. Most of the time I buffer it with something like a smart missile, though, don't know if that makes a difference in what you're talking about.

 

[Shock]

I mean if you do a smart missile on XBLA, you can't fire a dumb missile until the smart missile explodes. In UMK3 arcade (all revisions and on mame) he can. It creates a nice lock down scenario for him vs many characters. I have experienced all he does is LP.

 

[Not II ROFL II RIP]

I mean if you do a smart missile on XBLA, you can't fire a dumb missile until the smart missile explodes. In UMK3 arcade (all revisions and on mame) he can. It creates a nice lock down scenario for him vs many characters. I have experienced all he does is LP.

it only glitches like that sometimes like when you cant do jax's dash when charging lk shits weird

 

[Shock]

I messed around with it and it seems kinda random when he cannot do them. At Summoning's house it didn't work for a whole round.

 

[abc ur dead0]

1. Kabal
2. H. Smoke
3. Kung
4. Ermac
5. Nightwolf
6. Reptile
7. R. Smoke
8. Kano
9. Sindel
10. Sonya
11. Kitana
12. Stryker
13. Jax
14. U. Sub
15. Scorpion
16. Mileena
17. Jade
18. Sektor
19. C. Sub
20. Sheeva
21. Cyrax
22. Shang
23. Liu Kang

I'm going to go with Sugar's Tier list as the one I would see as the most accurate as well. After much thought I'm going to put down my old argument that Reptile should be 4th. He IS too damn hard to use as a Top 4 or even Top 5. I'd Put him 6 right above Robo Smoke just because of potential alone. Ermac and Nightwolf's EASE AND EFFECTIVENESS should bring them up to top 4 and 5. I changed Cyrax and Kang as well. Shang cannot be last because of the universal anywhere infinite. As hard as it is to actually do in game, the potential is always there. Liu has nothing though. A Good RH maybe? Damage protection on the pop up kills him. Cyrax should be 21 because of his high damage combos, but still bottom tier because of how hard they are to actually pull off, but still not impossible*Looks over at Pink Godzilla*

 

[Konqrr]

@ Shock:

Only P2 Sektor is plagued with not being able to do dumb missiles while a smart missile is active.

This exact same type of thing happens with quite a few characters in the 3D games where P1 can do things that P2 can't and vice versa.

 

[Shock]

I've seen it happen on both sides on XBLA.