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Match-up Discussion Skarlet Vs. Kabal

Johnny2d

Xbl: Johnny2Die
You might have a point. But skarlet cannot trade while zoning. She will take too much damage while delivering nothing.
I don't think she should try to trade iaD with iaGb. If you get hit by the gas you will be spun for full combo. If your dagger hits him it does next to no damage and you are both back to the fire fight. I do like the idea of making him block some daggers to build meter. Skarlet can duck the gas blasts, and fire daggers. Just seven blocked double daggers = one bar of meter. Then use the meter to punish spamming. Patience wins out here.
 

Johnny2d

Xbl: Johnny2Die
IF Kabal start to use iAGB as spamming tactic, maybe trade blood ball ,could be .... useful
I like it... but it is a HUGE gamble. I have used this in this situation, but usually if the kabal is mixing low and high GB, its a read on whether the next blast will actually connect or not, if you guess right its great in your favor, if not it was pretty dumb. You either come out looking genius or retarded. All in all I just don't see it being a staple tactic as anti gas blast against a high level Kabal, although it does work against low level spammers.
 

NariTuba

disMember
You might have a point. But skarlet cannot trade while zoning. She will take too much damage while delivering nothing.
I agree, that's why I said that all of the above was considering you have projectile advantage; meaning you put the dagger on the screen first.
 

SwayNTech

da bess
Every chance I get I use dat armour. usually leads to me getting blown up because I input it at the wrong time or incorrectly though. will have more to add once I get a set in with a good KUH BAWL
 

Johnny2d

Xbl: Johnny2Die
Some of the similarities are interesting. I had written in my own personal Skarlet studies, that Skarlet has "Kabal like zoning", an air projectile, a straight on projectile, and a low (the slide), great mixups from mid to full screen, and a move that specifically rushes you down. The difference is that Kabal's zoning happens from full screen, then rush down close, vs. Skarlet's zoning that is best at 3/4 screen to half screen. Skarlet needs to be inside 3/4 and half screen in order to capitalize off from an air ro air dagger, and also her dagger cancel pokes, and dagger canceled to jumping down dagger. Also, in this range her dash mixups including low slide, En overhead, and empty dash are in full effect.

I feel like this is her sweet spot for most matches, but possibly more so in the Kabal match because he wins at full screen, and we know what he can do when he's right on top. I think Skarlet does pretty well against him when he's close because of her armor, but it is advantageous to try to be right in the 'pocket' of 3/4 to half screen, about jump distance. From this pocket she can have moments of backing off, and moments of rush down, very similar to the way Kabal plays.
 

SaJa

FH_FenriR
It's pretty even imo
No it's harder to do for the skarlet player xD

Btw, if someone has a trick to do it I'll take. I think neutral jump into air dagger is ok (no need jump back) and easier to do, but still quite hard to hit the head. I'm feeling like if I can manage it, I'll be 10 time stronger x)
 
i have a vid im making recently, for not new tech, but uses for sumtin old that is good against any character, and i have specific tips against kabal. itll be up soon. hope itll help. it does me.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Pre-patch Skarlet versus pre-patch Kabal was an even match up. Skarlet has changed for the worse while Kabal has remained the same. In no way, shape, or form does she go even or beat him in the current version of the game. She has a fairly small hitbox, which helps, but gets out-zoned from almost any range.
 

Mosp

Apprentice
Pre-patch Skarlet versus pre-patch Kabal was an even match up. Skarlet has changed for the worse while Kabal has remained the same. In no way, shape, or form does she go even or beat him in the current version of the game. She has a fairly small hitbox, which helps, but gets out-zoned from almost any range.
Is that really a reason for her to lose the matchup though? Cage gets outzoned by Kabal but he can put up a fight up close and can do some good stuff once Kabal gets cornered. I feel like Skarlet is similar in that aspect and her EX red dash can be very useful in this match and make him hesitant to iagb's all day. Not to mention she can get almost all that meter back with one block string.
 

Ninj

Where art thou, MKX Skarlet?
Pre-patch Skarlet versus pre-patch Kabal was an even match up. Skarlet has changed for the worse while Kabal has remained the same. In no way, shape, or form does she go even or beat him in the current version of the game. She has a fairly small hitbox, which helps, but gets out-zoned from almost any range.
You mean to say: "Skarlet was brought down from S+ tier to become beatable."

I think the mu is even. I plan to prove it at Evo.

ps Kabal is not S+ tier.

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AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
Pre-patch Skarlet versus pre-patch Kabal was an even match up. Skarlet has changed for the worse while Kabal has remained the same. In no way, shape, or form does she go even or beat him in the current version of the game. She has a fairly small hitbox, which helps, but gets out-zoned from almost any range.
Sorry Dave but skarlet is still Better than you give her credit for. The fact that she is so difficult to use shows why she wasn't explored until now. If she was explored the way kabal has been for over a year now we would see how effective she is. Don't worry though it will happen. She will dethrone kabal

REO

Why havnt you picked her up yet? Or have you...
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Sorry Dave but skarlet is still Better than you give her credit for. The fact that she is so difficult to use shows why she wasn't explored until now. If she was explored the way kabal has been for over a year now we would see how effective she is. Don't worry though it will happen. She will dethrone kabal

REO

Why havnt you picked her up yet? Or have you...
Few players are using the character because they may as well learn Kabal if they choose to main a high execution character. Kabal provides more reward for your efforts than she does. I am positive that is why REO is not using her over Kabal.

By the way, I never said she was not good. I believe she is a high mid tier character at the moment. Is she top 10? I am not sure, but I do know that the community will have to see more than prerecorded set ups in practice mode to be convinced.

Skarlet was the very first DLC to be released. Every other DLC characters, released after she was, has received some kind of representation in local and major tournaments. Considering no one has done anything with the character in tournaments yet, you cannot make absurd claims such as "she will dethrone Kabal". You Skarlet players have overrated the character to laughable proportions based on no merit whatsoever.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
What can Kabal do to Stop Skarlet Game?
He can zone her with iaGBs and buzzsaws just like almost any other character. Skarlet players believe they will teleport punish and EX dash through iaGBs on reaction, which is of course nonsense.
 

Mosp

Apprentice
He can zone her with iaGBs and buzzsaws just like almost any other character. Skarlet players believe they will teleport punish and EX dash through iaGBs on reaction, which is of course nonsense.
You can just dash under them like many of the other characters that are forced to, how is armoring through them nonsense? And teleport is not a good answer to iaGBs I agree with that, her teleport is garbage.
 

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
You can just dash under them like many of the other characters that are forced to, how is armoring through them nonsense? And teleport is not a good answer to iaGBs I agree with that, her teleport is garbage.
If jax can beat him...skarlet can beat him worse.

I agree with your post though m2dave. I really do... But she WILL dethrone kabal. It's is my opinion and prediction. She is harder to use and THAT is the ONLY reason she hasn't been used..."why use her when you can use kabal?" Because she beats kabal. That's why!
 

Ninj

Where art thou, MKX Skarlet?
m2dave -

I've only ever heard people not picking her up because she's too difficult, not because 'you might as well pick up Kabal.'

I agree, she's been talked big here on the forums with not a lot to back it up. To be fair, I also haven't seen any player play her the way she needs to be. A universal flaw I've seen in all recorded fights is maximizing damage potential. This can't be said for Kabal (or any other char afaik). There's always someone hitting as hard as a character can. Not true for Skarlet, so it's hard to say that the hyping up isn't warranted.

And for the record, I fully endorse the hyping of this character people like lotf do. I'm happy when people are pumped for Skarlet, cause hype is good.

Skarlet will "dethrone" Kabal ;) <3

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M2Dave

Zoning Master
You can just dash under them like many of the other characters that are forced to, how is armoring through them nonsense?
Because you cannot possibly EX dash through iaGBs on reaction, or even through buzzsaws at mid range. If you commit to upslash, you can get punished with f+4 xx ND. EX dash downslash is even slower than EX dash upslash. EX dash slide is faster but only does 8% of damage.

The question is, how does Skarlet get in? And how does she initiate offense?
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Ninj, Kabal is an S+ character. So was pre-patch Skarlet. Kabal would not be so great if iaGBs were given 10 frames of recovery and did half as much damage (a la Skarlet's dagger cancels).
 

Ninj

Where art thou, MKX Skarlet?
Because you cannot possibly EX dash through iaGBs on reaction, or even through buzzsaws at mid range. If you commit to upslash, you can get punished with f+4 xx ND. EX dash downslash is even slower than EX dash upslash. EX dash slide is faster but only does 8% of damage.

The question is, how does Skarlet get in? And how does she initiate offense?
Please don't turn this into theoryfighting. You know her tools, and Kabals. Surely you can see how she can get in and initiate offense.

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Mosp

Apprentice
Because you cannot possibly EX dash through iaGBs on reaction, or even through buzzsaws at mid range. If you commit to upslash, you can get punished with f+4 xx ND. EX dash downslash is even slower than EX dash upslash. EX dash slide is faster but only does 8% of damage.

The question is, how does Skarlet get in? And how does she initiate offense?
You can EX dash through them on reaction and if they are waiting to punish your options from the dash you don't have to input any move after it. Empty dash can catch a lot of people off guard but if that doesn't work I have no problem dashing under iaGBs until he corners himself where he is much easier to deal with than in midscreen. I also don't mind taking the 8% slide damage for a knockdown.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Please don't turn this into theoryfighting. You know her tools, and Kabals. Surely you can see how she can get in and initiate offense.

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Come on, man. Skarlet players cannot accuse others of "theory fighting". LOL. Your whole premise is based on "Skarlet can do this and that, but no one has actually done it yet when it matters".

And yes I would like to know how and why she goes even with Kabal.
 

Flagg

Champion
I think in time this match could be a bad one for Kabal.

Noticed Pig was throwing out ex daggers a lot to "check" EX nomad dash? Well Skarlet can do that without using bar. She also has meter to get in. It's not like the Kabal player is going to be iagb the whole match, at some point he will corner himself and start nmdc shenanigans. Now coupled with what we know about Foxys how to fight Kabal thread, Skarlet can down 1 at the right time, then 112 and then the ball is in her court.

All of this is of course theory fighting, because no one has seen a high level Kabal or high level Skarlet brawl yet. We know she builds meter as fast as him and when she gets a hit, it's worse. Didn't fr stack recently discover a near 50% midscreen no meter combo with her recently.
 

Ninj

Where art thou, MKX Skarlet?
Come on, man. Skarlet players cannot accuse others of "theory fighting". LOL. Your whole premise is based on "Skarlet can do this and that, but no one has actually done it yet when it matters".

And yes I would like to know how and why she goes even with Kabal.
I'm talking about discussing tool vs tool of the character. I'm at work right now, but I'd be happy to write something up when I get home.

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