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What is Wrong With These People!? - The U.S. Politics Discussion Thread

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
I'm fairly certain malaria and related (plasmodium) diseases are the number one cause of human death throughout our history. Famine probably beats war by a long way too.
The Europeans killed over 95% of the Latin American population with disease when they came over in the 15th and 16th centuries.
What did they come over for. Gold, GOD, and glory. Christianity

What's up History
 

nwo

Kombatant
People shouldn't have to leave their homes to get their rights, it's that simple.

As for the picture lol...
Hey, I wish that were true. I'd have to move out of California to get my entire second amendment. I'm not a HUGE gun fanatic, but there are some guns I'd like to own that aren't on the "California approved" guns list. California doesn't allow magazines that hold more than 10 rounds either, it's such a stupid law because it's not like you couldn't kill someone with 10 rounds. Oh yeah, and they just outlawed open carry last year, which took effect January 1st.

You think that pictures funny? Her name is Elena Kagan, and no I didn't go out of my way to find a bad picture of her believe me.

"Elena Kagan is an associate justice of the Supreme Court of the United States. Kagan is the Court's 112th justice and fourth female justice." -Wikipedia

We live in a republic, one which, even when the majority might be ok with doing something, is still considered wrong. In a democracy, if 51% of the people voted for blacks to be slaves again, would that be ok? Or do you think people would rightfully be pissed about it, and even if that's what 51% of people wanted, they should be told no?
I agree, I said that we live in a republic like 2 pages ago.

Its not up to you to decide what someone else's priorities are. Isn't that what freedom is about, you get to decide for yourself?

I will say though, I wouldn't mind if we went the other way and completely abolished the concept of legal marriage. But if we're going to have it, it should be open to everyone, and not just arbitrarly. Expecting a gay guy to marry a woman as the only way to engage in the right of marriage is nonsensical from the start; its obviously not something they'd rather choose to do.
Yeah, same sex marriage isn't high on my priorities list, I have a right to say that. If a radically unconstitutional state like California votes it down, I don't know what else to say.
 
Yeah, California may be uber-restrictive in terms of gun laws (though there are some states that are worse in that regard), but you can't point to one state (or a small collection of ineffectual speeches) and say that the second amendment is "under attack" like some sensationalist reporter. All that amounts to is a handful of states exercising "states rights," ie: their right to have shitty gun laws.

And a few people in positions of power who, although they think they mean well they can't outmuscle the NRA lobby.
 

NkdSingularity

Truth and Ugly
The Europeans killed over 95% of the Latin American population with disease when they came over in the 15th and 16th centuries.
What did they come over for. Gold, GOD, and glory. Christianity

What's up History
Malaria killed over 1,238,000 people in 2010; http://journalistsresource.org/studies/government/international/global-malaria-mortality-1980-2010-systematic-analysis/
And has been infecting humans for over 50,000 years; http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12690197

What's up Science.

P.S. GOLD, god, and GLORY. Greed and self-aggrandisement.
 

Tolkeen

/wrists
Hey, I wish that were true. I'd have to move out of California to get my entire second amendment. I'm not a HUGE gun fanatic, but there are some guns I'd like to own that aren't on the "California approved" guns list. California doesn't allow magazines that hold more than 10 rounds either, it's such a stupid law because it's not like you couldn't kill someone with 10 rounds. Oh yeah, and they just outlawed open carry last year, which took effect January 1st.

You think that pictures funny? Her name is Elena Kagan, and no I didn't go out of my way to find a bad picture of her believe me.

"Elena Kagan is an associate justice of the Supreme Court of the United States. Kagan is the Court's 112th justice and fourth female justice." -Wikipedia



I agree, I said that we live in a republic like 2 pages ago.



Yeah, same sex marriage isn't high on my priorities list, I have a right to say that. If a radically unconstitutional state like California votes it down, I don't know what else to say.
The second amendment doesn't say anything about being able to carry automatic weapons, or weapons that hold enough rounds to kill an entire group of people. California is a stickler for gun laws because it has a HUGE problem with gun related crime and gang activity. I know that there's the argument that they're gonna get the guns on the black market either way, but they're using the "locked door" argument.
A lock on a door doesn't stop a dishonest person, but it helps deter an honest person from becoming dishonest.

You can't say California is unconstitutional for limiting your gun collection, when the amendment was written guns still took 4 minutes to load, fired only one round at a time, and were less than 50% accurate.
 

Tolkeen

/wrists
Malaria killed over 1,238,000 people in 2010; http://journalistsresource.org/studies/government/international/global-malaria-mortality-1980-2010-systematic-analysis/
And has been infecting humans for over 50,000 years; http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12690197

What's up Science.

P.S. GOLD, god, and GLORY. Greed and self-aggrandisement.
God killed every thing and every one on the planet except for the people on Noah's ark. That was probably a really large number too. And I'm pretty sure god is responsible for all diseases also, since they are creatures, and he created all creatures.

I do agree with you though, it's not religions fault that people are being killed, it's the stupidity of the masses to follow religious zealots.
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
nwo, omg dude...Keith Obermann is such an idiot...I think he should stick to sports broadcasting personally lol. I honestly don't know who's worse him or Chris Matthews lol. I'm sure you know who he is...

Nothing throught the history of humanity had killed more people than religion.

Just throwing that out there.
I think it definitely contributes, but isn't the sole reason. Wars in general killed loads of people from WW1, WW2 had nothing to do with religion among many other wars. Just want to put that out there. Look up the numbers man, you're right religious wars have crazy numbers of deaths but so does other wars generally speaking whether it's over land, politics or world domination..

rev,



I wouldn't say 9/11 was small, I mean it's not the highest record of deaths ever but it's nothing to ignore either. nearly 4000 people dead in one day isn't exactly small...I don't think it would have been forgotten news, people have already forgotten 9/11 you know..here. Western incidents I haven't forgotten, the attacks in Europe etc by terrorists. I remember, they weren't as large as 9/11 though and taking down the WTC is one of the biggest if not the biggest financial buildings in the world at that time...about hundreds of companies in there. My father used to work there 20 years ago before his company moved out...

I never said any mainstream religion inspire violence, I'm saying there's radicals on every end who claim to be "true christians, muslims or jews" yet kill for their own religious reasons that are just that, their own reasons. I think in general Christians, Muslims and Jews get a bad rap for reasons like this...
 

rev0lver

Come On Die Young
I wouldn't say 9/11 was small, I mean it's not the highest record of deaths ever but it's nothing to ignore either. nearly 4000 people dead in one day isn't exactly small...I don't think it would have been forgotten news, people have already forgotten 9/11 you know..here. Western incidents I haven't forgotten, the attacks in Europe etc by terrorists. I remember, they weren't as large as 9/11 though and taking down the WTC is one of the biggest if not the biggest financial buildings in the world at that time...about hundreds of companies in there. My father used to work there 20 years ago before his company moved out...

I never said any mainstream religion inspire violence, I'm saying there's radicals on every end who claim to be "true christians, muslims or jews" yet kill for their own religious reasons that are just that, their own reasons. I think in general Christians, Muslims and Jews get a bad rap for reasons like this...
I agree with you about religion inspiring violence. My point is that Islam is no more inspirational than any others. The reason why it's a common scapegoat is because the Middle East has far more volatile political issues than anywhere else right now. Other heavily Islamic areas don't have the same issues.

But as for the death tolls, 9/11 doesn't even compare to recent genocides. The Darfur conflict has resulted in around 200,000 deaths (at the least), and the average American didn't give two shits about it. My point is that we only really care about what happens in the Western world. Like, have you ever heard of the Yazidi Bombings? It happened in Iraq a few years ago, killed nearly 1,000 people, and was barely even news around here. Overall, the number of deaths due to terror attacks in Iraq is far more than Americans on 9/11
 

nwo

Kombatant
The second amendment doesn't say anything about being able to carry automatic weapons, or weapons that hold enough rounds to kill an entire group of people. California is a stickler for gun laws because it has a HUGE problem with gun related crime and gang activity. I know that there's the argument that they're gonna get the guns on the black market either way, but they're using the "locked door" argument.
A lock on a door doesn't stop a dishonest person, but it helps deter an honest person from becoming dishonest.

You can't say California is unconstitutional for limiting your gun collection, when the amendment was written guns still took 4 minutes to load, fired only one round at a time, and were less than 50% accurate.
A criminal can still kill an entire group of people using 10 round magazines, empty magazines can be swapped out VERY quickly on most hand guns. A criminal could also just carry multiple pre-loaded weapons if they wanted to kill a group of people. But, do you really think someone who decided that they wanted to kill a GROUP of people would obey the 10 round magazine law?

One thing that could actually prevent some nut from going on a rampage in public would be OPEN CARRY.

I didn't say anything about full automatic weapons, they're illegal in almost every state from my understanding, maybe in some states with some type of special license you could own one. A criminal that wants a full automatic weapon WILL have one regardless.

I never heard of this "locked door" argument, but I know one thing, a "locked door" absolutely would not stop a criminal from breaking into your house in the middle of the night. Or maybe your mother or grandmothers house? Gun's are the great equalizer in a situation like this.

Here's a basic concept I don't think you understand. PEOPLE KILL, GUNS DON'T. The type of gun I have or amount of bullets it can carry does not make me ANYMORE likely to be a criminal.
 

rev0lver

Come On Die Young
Here's a basic concept I don't think you understand. PEOPLE KILL, GUNS DON'T. The type of gun I have or amount of bullets it can carry does not make me ANYMORE likely to be a criminal.
Guns don't kill people, bullets do.

For real though, I never bought that whole argument. Guns making killing people much easier. I'm way more scared of having a gun pointed at me than a knife. Imagine if the VA Tech shooter only had a knife.
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
A criminal can still kill an entire group of people using 10 round magazines, empty magazines can be swapped out VERY quickly on most hand guns. A criminal could also just carry multiple pre-loaded weapons if they wanted to kill a group of people. But, do you really think someone who decided that they wanted to kill a GROUP of people would obey the 10 round magazine law?

One thing that could actually prevent some nut from going on a rampage in public would be OPEN CARRY.

I didn't say anything about full automatic weapons, they're illegal in almost every state from my understanding, maybe in some states with some type of special license you could own one. A criminal that wants a full automatic weapon WILL have one regardless.

I never heard of this "locked door" argument, but I know one thing, a "locked door" absolutely would not stop a criminal from breaking into your house in the middle of the night. Or maybe your mother or grandmothers house? Gun's are the great equalizer in a situation like this.

Here's a basic concept I don't think you understand. PEOPLE KILL, GUNS DON'T. The type of gun I have or amount of bullets it can carry does not make me ANYMORE likely to be a criminal.
True, guns and weapons anything that "can kill someone" tend to get a bad rap when it's people who kill people. I mean, a car can be a weapon in the wrong hands you know? Are we going to outlaw them too? lol. I agree.

rev,

Yeah, it tends to get "hectic" there to put it lightly compared to here and other places around the world. Although, don't forget China too. You can find vids and articles out there of political squabbles like brawls and stuff in court rooms lol, crazy stuff over politics.

The problem or one of the issues with Iran, Islam etc are they tend to spawn a lot of these radical groups or different radical groups which is probably one of the reasons Israel feels the need to fight back besides that other stuff politically, religiously. They both hate each other but from so far everything I gather, Iran seems to hate the Jews more although I'm sure at this point the hate is nearly mutual and equal.

9/11 is up there no doubt I'm sure with short attacks in one day and comparable to certain war numbers, just not crazy wars like WW2, WW1, Pearl Harbor incidents etc. Although, 9/11 has been the worst attack on US since Pearl Harbor just want to note on US soil.

I have heard of that, but only a little bit on the Yazidi Bombings. You know what it is, a lot of people and media feel that's so typical over there, like every day literally there's something going on. Car bombs, kids strapped with bombs on their chests and it's just like typical yet sad in a way you know? 9/11 however you see, we're America and supposed to be strong, powerful, well guarded etc yet that day we were penetrated badly...that on top of taking down both towers of WTC and you have worldwide news. I'm sure if Paris lost the Eiffel Tower, I'm sure it would be world news as well no doubt in my mind. WTC is one or was one of the biggest worldwide monuments, buildings and financial centers besides being located in NYC, USA it's kind of a big deal. Like I said before, my dad used to work in there years ago and his company associates work with worldwide companies as well as his company being around the world. To my knowledge, they moved out due to rental prices and changes in the company. He worked on the 20th floor so if he was still there, chances are he would have been ok. But still, crazy stuff....pretty much if you're from NYC or live in the tri state area you know someone who lost someone if not directly.

Overall, I'm sure you're right Iran/Israel war and religious attacks etc have to be more then 9/11, since that was one day still a big lose. That's also my other point in that in modern day religious wars, nothing is worse then Iran/Israel right now...shit happens every day over there, it's crazy. I also know this due to knowing friends who served over there or people who have family deported there. I hear a lot of crazy stories, there was something few months back about the media making a big deal out of a USA soldier pissing on a terror cell....while that's the least of their worries, I can't say I blamed him. Might have been morally wrong but then I think, these guys are fighting for us and that dirtbag would have no hesitation chopping off that soldiers head if given the chance so...
 

rev0lver

Come On Die Young
MKF30 oh believe me it's not like 9/11 didn't scare and sadden me, even though I was only in 4th grade at the time. it's easily the worst thing to happen to this country in the past 60+ years. My Grandma actually flew home to NY after staying with us on 9/10. I could only imagine if she stayed a day later. My Mom used to work in the WTC too when she lived in Jersey.

It's just that in America, we seem to value the lives of the people in Western countries (by that I mean USA+Canada, as well as Europe) more than anyone else, and I think that's wrong.

But Iran doesn't hate "the jews", they hate Israel. I'm not saying the Iranian government is respectable, but they are certainly misunderstood. For example, when Ahmadinejad called for regime change in Israel and an end to pro-Zionism, there was a translation error and it was reported that he said Israel should be "wiped off the map". It all has to do with the alliance between Palestine and the rest of the Middle East. I'm an anti-zionist too. It's all politics, not religion, they just want the Israelis to (at the VERY LEAST) allow Palestinians to return to their homes and be able to have their own, independent state.
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
Initially when you said 4th grade I was like huh? But forgot about the age differences in this topic for a second. I was working my first job at the time...

But yeah, I'm sure that day everyone will never forget where they were that day especially for New Yorkers, local people. Yeah, well I think America at times also tends to get involved too much and then is unappreciated you know? Guess it depends..

Yeah, well that's what I'm saying lol more or less. Israel is primarily jewish and I don't know everytime I'm in a room with muslims and jews, it's almost as if I can feel the hatred between them(one of my friends is jewish and we hung out few times with these other guys who were of Arab background) For some reason everyone talked but the jewish guy and arab guy didn't exactly chat that much, I'm pretty sure they didn't know each other but acted as if they weren't fond of one another. Kind of odd one of those things you'd have to be there you know?

I guess it's kind of like racism to other people, if you're in a room with certain people you don't like you just don't talk to them at all lol. I think it's about politics mostly and some of it religion from everything I've read and heard from people who have been over there. Who knows...
 

rev0lver

Come On Die Young
MKF30 No man it doesn't have to do with muslims vs jews. It's zionism vs anti-zionism. I think I said this earlier in this thread but when I first came to college, my best friend was an anti-zionist jew who just got out of the Israeli army. It's not based in race or religion, it's based on ideology. Anti-zionists dislike the government of Israel because they forced out the native people to Jordan/other countries and to modern-day Palestine, and commit many human rights abuses toward them, break international laws by controlling that land, and prevent Palestine from officially establishing their state.
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
MKF30 No man it doesn't have to do with muslims vs jews. It's zionism vs anti-zionism. I think I said this earlier in this thread but when I first came to college, my best friend was an anti-zionist jew who just got out of the Israeli army. It's not based in race or religion, it's based on ideology. Anti-zionists dislike the government of Israel because they forced out the native people to Jordan/other countries and to modern-day Palestine, and commit many human rights abuses toward them, break international laws by controlling that land, and prevent Palestine from officially establishing their state.
They also won the war, I mean we have done some pretty messed up stuff to countries after we win a war as well. I dont like how Israel handles most of its business but all in all I cant argue with the fact that they have been brutally targeted since the beginning. I mean they have won what, like five wars in a row now? That would toughen your people up, and also definitely add some hostility towards the arabs. Not saying that makes human abuse right, but it is like how here there are still some people who completely hate all japanese people for what happened in WWII.
 

rev0lver

Come On Die Young
Zoidberg747 You have to realize though that they did this with the help of Western countries (UK in particular). That's why Israel isn't the terrorists' only target.

Israel was the target since the beginning BECAUSE they were wrongfully put there by the allied forces due to anti-semitism in Europe. The Israelis co-existed with the natives, but because they became the ruling class due to their better lives in Europe, the Palestinians rebelled against them. Hence why they declared their independence as a Jewish state. They can't really play the victim from a historical perspective.
 

aj1701

Champion
The second amendment doesn't say anything about being able to carry automatic weapons, or weapons that hold enough rounds to kill an entire group of people. California is a stickler for gun laws because it has a HUGE problem with gun related crime and gang activity. I know that there's the argument that they're gonna get the guns on the black market either way, but they're using the "locked door" argument.
A lock on a door doesn't stop a dishonest person, but it helps deter an honest person from becoming dishonest.

You can't say California is unconstitutional for limiting your gun collection, when the amendment was written guns still took 4 minutes to load, fired only one round at a time, and were less than 50% accurate.
Fail. The second amendment is a restriction on what government cannot do, it doesn't grant us rights, we have them through natural law. The amendment is clear, and the founders knew things would change, they weren't stupid. The first thing tyrants do is disarm their subjects.
 
Reactions: nwo

Tolkeen

/wrists
Fail. The second amendment is a restriction on what government cannot do, it doesn't grant us rights, we have them through natural law. The amendment is clear, and the founders knew things would change, they weren't stupid. The first thing tyrants do is disarm their subjects.
Fail.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Which militia are you part of?

And also, I never said I was against people having guns, I was just trying to illuminate the opinions of the opposition. You don't have to take such a dickish tone.
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
Zoidberg747 You have to realize though that they did this with the help of Western countries (UK in particular). That's why Israel isn't the terrorists' only target.

Israel was the target since the beginning BECAUSE they were wrongfully put there by the allied forces due to anti-semitism in Europe. The Israelis co-existed with the natives, but because they became the ruling class due to their better lives in Europe, the Palestinians rebelled against them. Hence why they declared their independence as a Jewish state. They can't really play the victim from a historical perspective.
Except that Jews have been treated terribly since the beginning of religion. Although most of the atrocities have actually been performed by Christians, I can still see why they wanted a land for themselves. I mean the Arabs took over and conquered much of Africa and the Middle East, you could make a case that they wrongfully forced themselves there. What it comes down to is power, If you have power you get what you want. The Arabs have committed a lot of atrocities as well as the christians, me personally I dont think the Israel/Palestine war can compare to all of those.
 

aj1701

Champion
Fail.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Which militia are you part of?

And also, I never said I was against people having guns, I was just trying to illuminate the opinions of the opposition. You don't have to take such a dickish tone.
Some recent supreme court decisions disagree with you.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

The militia are the people, and the people are the militia.
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
rev, I'm saying the muslims and jews aren't too fond of each other in general, much less their religious differences but the rest is obviously political. A lot of times idealogy can spawn or be related to some religious beliefs(some things) as are political. Just look at the whole marriage thing, abortion etc here. It's similar in other religions as well but a lot of it is definitely terrority disputes as well.