Match-up Discussion Johnny Cage: Official Matchup Discussion

[Mikemetroid]

I mean, that's how I fight against Sub-Zeros, usually it works but I may have to change a thing or two here and there.

 

[Khaotic_xShangx]

I mean, that's how I fight against Sub-Zeros, usually it works but I may have to change a thing or two here and there.

i just get impatient waiting for him to mess up at any point in time. usually when i knock them down i dash close then jump to get over the clone but they tech roll then clone which causes me to get frozen. Ill try this dash then 44 then.

 

[Mikemetroid]

Try Dash Blocking, They normally don't have enough time to react when you block the clone...Risky as fuck but what the hell. Again the match changes up to which kind of sub-zero does what.

 

[Wildabeast]

Fighting Sub Zero is all about getting the life lead and then making him come to you. One thing to remember; Clone is not actually safe, he has enough of a recovery after popping one that you can tag him with either a projectile or an armor move if you read it. If you know hes going to do it Ex Shadow Kick or Force Ball that shit!

 

[SunnyD]

Man i always get beat by Playpal's Cage. Maybe i should play more aggressive...

 

[Lord Beef]

Man i always get beat by Playpal's Cage. Maybe i should play more aggressive...

Bro don't feel bad lol, he destroys a lot of people. My self included

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[EVB SomeCubanGuy]

Cage/Baraka is 5-5 guys, 5.5-4.5 at the worst. Baraka has a better D+4, Blade Charge is safe from max range, 6 frame D+3 and armor to get out of pressure. The match comes down to whoever gets the first hit into pressure.

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[TomlulsBrady]

Why is Jax and JC matchup a 6/4? Please explain this and don't say dumb bullshit like his GP faints and fireball can keep cage out.

 

[Mikemetroid]

Cage/Baraka is 5-5 guys, 5.5-4.5 at the worst. Baraka has a better D+4, Blade Charge is safe from max range, 6 frame D+3 and armor to get out of pressure. The match comes down to whoever gets the first hit into pressure.

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Incorect, Baraka is soo slow and has many openings in his pressure. The d4 can easily be canceled by a 44, and the blade charge can be shadow kicked when blocked (B3'd at the right distance). Some of your get the fuck off me moves can be nut punched. You can armor out sure, but I can still ex nut punch you.

Zoidberg747 1man3letters

I've discussed this matchup with them entirely.

 

[EVB SomeCubanGuy]

Incorect, Baraka is soo slow and has many openings in his pressure. The d4 can easily be canceled by a 44, and the blade charge can be shadow kicked when blocked (B3'd at the right distance). Some of your get the fuck off me moves can be nut punched. You can armor out sure, but I can still ex nut punch you.

Zoidberg747 1man3letters

I've discussed this matchup with them entirely.

I play XBL MindGames' Cage all the time, even he'll tell you it's not 6-4. I've discussed it with him plenty, and he plays Baraka as well. Yes, F3/F4/44 can beat D+4s, but Baraka's 2,1 advances further, and stuffs a lot of Cage's footsie tools as well, including F3 if the 1 connects. EX Nut Punch is baitable, and punishable by F44 or Blade Charge. Blade Charge, when done at max range, is not punishable by Shadow Kick. EX Shadow Kick can.

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[1man3letters]

yea sorry cuban i really do see it as a 4-6 atm

 

[salvificblood]

I don;t understand how you canhave a problem with an aggressive Sub-Zero when you have f3 which outpriorities everything he has, and ex nutpunch so that he can never mix you up off 21. He either does 214 or he dies. If you find yourself f3'ing into the clone, be more patient. You only have to tag him once and he will be in big trouble.

 

[crosstalk]

Why is Jax and JC matchup a 6/4? Please explain this and don't say dumb bullshit like his GP faints and fireball can keep cage out.

It's definitely in Cage's favor. Cage still has to respect Jax's plethora of armor, pokes, and wakeup gotcha. Cage's hitbox definitely nullifies a lot of Jax's pressure, but Jax still has some options. If Jax corners Cage, Cage will have to take big risks with either flash kick, EX nutpunch, or EX shadow kick, all of which can be baited and punished fully. Personally, I don't think it's a 7-3. I think 6-4 is more reasonable.

 

[Peckapowa]

Baraka: 6-4
Cyber Sub-Zero: 5-5
Cyrax: 5-5
Ermac: 5-5
Freddy: 5-5
Jade: 6-4
Jax: 6-4
Kabal: 4-6
Kano: 6-4
Kenshi: 4-6
Kitana: 5-5
Kung Lao: 5-5
Liu Kang: 5-5
Mileena- 6-4
Nightwolf: 6-4
Noob: 5-5
Quan Chi: 6-4
Raiden: 5-5
Rain: 5-5
Reptile: 5-5
Scorpion: 6-4
Sektor: 5.5-4.5
Shang: 5-5
Sheeva: 6-4
Sindel: 5-5
Skarlet: 5-5
Smoke: 6-4
Sonya: 4.5-5.5
Stryker: 5.5-4.5
Sub-Zero: 4.5-5.5
Total: 158

This is a mixture of mine and many other players.

personally i think cage beats raiden 6-4 and its 55 with sub but thats pretty much good shit

 

[Theme]

So today, me and my friend played a few Cage vs Sub Zero. I took some peoples advice. This is how I'd play:

Spend first meter for first blood, then play cat mouse. When he charges at me, I will d3 into f3 chain. This would effectively nullify his health down. He will thus panick and thus try to get away and jump, causing further destruction on that which is Sub Zero........ Today... I went toe to toe with him and actually won 50% of the matches with this strategy (Sometimes he just reads better than me) and now I am no longer scared of Sub Zero vs Cage!!!


HOORAH
Im high while typing this so srry for the dramaticalliness.

 

[Qwark28]

Try Dash Blocking, They normally don't have enough time to react when you block the clone...Risky as fuck but what the hell. Again the match changes up to which kind of sub-zero does what.

This was beat to death on another thread,as long as you dash block my clone and put yourself at -15 i'll gladly cash in my ticket of 5% chip and 25% meter along with putting up another clone.

Theme it's all about footsies,what does he do that gets you?every string not cancelled into clone is -,if for example he's 22ing inurface (lol) you can d3 and you've just started your offense.

the thing is,when subzero gets in,he gets a blockstring or two,when cage gets in,he gets a bar and 10%+ chip

don't waste meter for first blood,depending on your choice,sub can counter with d4 to 212 clone if it's forceballs,that leaves him you at 95% hp,0 meter while he has 2,5 bars,if shadow kicking he can 22xxfreeze jip b121 for the throw/212 50/50,he still walks away with 2.5 bars except you have half/a bar as well but are down 30%HP.

if he's rushing you he doesn't know the matchup,if he doesn't know the matchup he probably doesn't know the holes in his offence,if he doesn't know those then his rushdown is bound to be faulty,sub's 2 whiffs on cage so that's a perfect chance for a d3 to pressure there,22 on block is -6,if he's right in front of you it's a gamble between f33nutpunch and d3,depending on him not knowing frame data and trying to get out.

you can punish back jumps with shadow kicks or forceball,less so with the last.

212 as said by salvific can be ex nutpunched,generally the whole 2 string tree can be punished or grants you a space advantage,just like subzero has his clone as a wall,you've got yourself,if he jumps,AA,pokes,whiff punish.

learn the clone's duration,you really don't know how many free jump ins you can get,that clone really is a I DONT HAVE TO AA ANYMORE sign when it's on the screen,you can jip right as it's dissapearing.

btw,when he's chasing you,if he's commiting to the dash you can take advantage of that.

If you live in Europe and have a PS3 add me,i have a decent subzero.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

2,2 kills cage in the neutral game. Especially when I have a clone up. The range on that thing is silly.
This match really is predicated on who can manage their meter and life lead the best. Thing is... SZ can always approach Cage cautiously... never really taking a huge risk. Where Cage has to blow up a mistake.
BTW... you won't get many free JiP's by timing a clone. Maybe online...but offline 2,2~freeze or 2~freeze takes care of those shenanigans real quick.

 

[Theme]

Yeah, the thing I have the problem most against is the 22 string. That thing has stupid range, almost as good as the b3 of Cage.

Edit: My friend knows the matchup. He knows his characters inside out, trust me, hes no scrub even if he is rushing down a Cage. Thats just the way he plays, unpredictable. He plays offensive a lot, and when he loses the offensive, he'd usually clone down when Im giving chase, and that usually is what gets me. But now, I know to not be aggressive and let him come to me instead.

And Im in the USA, sorry.

 

[NKZero]

Yeah, the thing I have the problem most against is the 22 string. That thing has stupid range, almost as good as the b3 of Cage.

I would argue 22 is better. Both have good range (maybe 22 is better). Both can lead into a full combo but 22 is safer. Also you can whiff the first hit of 2 and if the second 2 hits, you have enough advantage that a linked in ice ball will freeze the opponent.

Anyways glad to see you are resorting to lame Cage. That is honestly his best hope. Also make sure you know when the ice clone dissapears and then you can advance more. Once Sub is backed up into a corner, he could be in big trouble.

 

[Theme]

Yeah thats what I have to resort to now. He does the same thing, play a lame Sub Zero, but its the way the games played. I think the 22 is more punishable, the b3 has push back (a lot). To be honest, I dont think any other character of his really gives me a problem. Even his Raiden now is pretty easy to understand. When I lose to his characters, its because of a mistake that I did.... I have some really bad habits.

 

[Theme]

Cage/Baraka is 5-5 guys, 5.5-4.5 at the worst. Baraka has a better D+4, Blade Charge is safe from max range, 6 frame D+3 and armor to get out of pressure.

Actually, after playing quite a few Baraka's, it has become a turtle game. That being said, I played against this Baraka specifically that just threw random sparks and then blade charged. Each time he blade charged, I was able to block and shadow kick it (green, not even EN) every time. Its not as safe as you think it is, punishable each time, even online.

 

[BenGmanUk]

If SZ hits cage from with b121 from a freeze, is an ex nut punch guaranteed to beat any follow up attack? I noticed Curbo didn't use this against Brady but wasnt sure whether he was unaware or its too tight to time making it risky etc.

Any ideas?

 

[ChaosTheory]

If SZ hits cage from with b121 from a freeze, is an ex nut punch guaranteed to beat any follow up attack? I noticed Curbo didn't use this against Brady but wasnt sure whether he was unaware or its too tight to time making it risky etc.

Any ideas?

If Sub-Zero times his follow-up after b1,2,1 correctly, all the opponent can do is block. Sub-Zero is hitting them out of the hit-stun of b1,2,1 and you obviously can't do a move while you're in hit-stun. So basically, before you can recover (and be able to do anything at all), Sub-Zero is forcing you into either block- or hit-animation, depending on if you choose to block or not.

I recommend you block.

 

[BenGmanUk]

If Sub-Zero times his follow-up after b1,2,1 correctly, all the opponent can do is block. Sub-Zero is hitting them out of the hit-stun of b1,2,1 and you obviously can't do a move while you're in hit-stun. So basically, before you can recover (and be able to do anything at all), Sub-Zero is forcing you into either block- or hit-animation, depending on if you choose to block or not.

I recommend you block.

Hmm must have been my timing. You can't even armour out then?

 

[ChaosTheory]

Hmm must have been my timing. You can't even armour out then?

You can't jump, crouch, poke, crouch poke, teleport, armor, or X-Ray. You can either block or not block.

You have to think about it... When Sub is contacting you with 2, you're still a couple of frames from recovering from the hit-stun of b1,2,1. You can't do anything while you're in hit-stun. So you're only option is to block.

And I'm not sure exactly how it works across the board... but attempting to armor or X-Ray out of the follow-up can cost you your meter on top of already doubling Sub's damage output. I don't know if it drains their meter every time or if it's inconsistent. But it happens.