The REAL Johnny Cage Match Up Chart

[Z-911-Z]

I know this is probably a troll thread, but if Cage is going to 8-2 anyone it's Sheeva, not Kano. At least Kano has a decent projectile and upball to keep Cage out for a bit. In the meantime Sheeva's bigass hitbox makes it really easy for Cage to lock down her ass, and that's not counting how he can standing 2 her out of telestomp into full combo and nutpunch.

 

[PND OmegaK]

I honestly don't think he is. Kabal is the worst character on God's green earth, imo, and I think Sonya has more retarded stuff she can just throw out and rape you with than cage has. Everybody complains about the nutpunch as though it's not full combo punishable. If you read Cage is going to do a nutpunch to break up your pressure, just block it and then combo him. If he gets you with it, fair play to the guy, he made the right read and you were over zealous in your pressure.

That's fairer to me than Jax just armouring through anything and everything and laughing at the fact he's just put you in the cornerwhere he will now do over 100% if you guess wrong. Kabal using the ex spin cancel to safely armour his way out of the corner and into a blockstring/combo, Kung Lao doing whiffed ex teles to armour through everything. Sonya doing 3 ex cartwheels in a row. They all have their dumb shit, why demand nerfs to Cage anymore than these characters?

When Jax is beating the living shit out of you in the corner you are actively building meter to break it. I'm not saying 100% combos are fair but you have something to fall back on if it does happen to you. In Cage's god damn retarded guessing game he is actively building meter while you are left with none, there is no escape, there is no compensation, there is no mercy. Against 90% of the cast he has to guess right once and he is in, and then he can do braindead shit like f3 over and over forcing you into the fetal position until goes 'DAMN IM GOOD HHHAHA JOHNY CAGE YEAAAH OOOOOOWWH HAHA' and then walks away with that smug as fuck look on his face as if anything he did required any effort what so ever.

I got carried away there but you get the point, this nigga broke.

 

[GrandMasterson]

he's very bad at full-mid screen

This is only true when he has no meter, which he always does. He still has armor on EX shadow kick which he can use to get in, and you still have to respect even a regular force ball sometimes. Cage is NOT "very bad" full screen. He does have trouble, but saying he's very bad implies he has next to no options, which couldn't be further from the truth.

I've made jokes that Cage is one of the only true zoners in this game; that you have to respect him from almost every point on screen. Next to Kenshi, of course.

Also, the Scorpion match-up really is that bad (it's a 7-3 at the VERY least). In a game of footsies, Scorpion loses, and against someone with such deadly footsies as Cage, it simply isn't fair. Scorpion is still garbage even when he manages to get a full screen in between him and Cage: EX teleport uses a bar, has no armor (Cage can D1 it into a reset), and only puts him right back next to Cage. Oh, and hellfire/teleport/spear mix-up is incredibly risky.

The ONLY time Scorpion is in control of that match is when Scorpion has Cage in the vortex, but so what? Scorpion has to get Cage in the vortex first, which is one of the hardest things Scorpion will ever have to do, and usually by then Cage has a breaker from Scorpion blocking all of his bullshit.

Scorpion has to make virtually perfect reads against Cage or get blown the fuck up, and that is why it's such a fucked up match-up. I'm not saying it's unwinnable, but a smart Cage can almost always bend over an equally smart Scorpion.

 

[Theme]

1) exactly. No one has full explored the game hence what I said about evolving/change. Mu #'s change either for good or bad and so do tier list placement over time. I mean look at MVC2. How long was doom and strider top shit b4 magneto, storm, and whoever else became God like? This game will consistently go through changes even when MK10 comes out. I highly doubt we will have MK9 fully fleshed out b4 MK10 release unless they dnt release MK10 for 5 years and even then look and SSF2T. it took 10 yrs to fully flesh that game out.

2) Maybe REO found something with Cage that cripples scorpion you don't know about. hence the reason behind Tier list. 2 players of equal skill playing 10 matches. Knowledge also = skill so maybe He knows something you don't. Always keep that in mind.

3) This game is far from balanced. With kabal shenanigans, guaranteed resets, and counter picking with stages this game is far from balanced lol

Whoops I totally skipped over this.

1) That is why IMO tierlist is stupid and unnecessary. Whoever plays this game even casually should already know which character is higher up than say Baraka.

2) I highly doubt REO or someone else has found anything remotely unknown about Cage, considering hes getting a shit load of publicity and spotlight right now. He is just the flavor of the month. I know my matchups and IMO quite good at this game. Sure I have some very bad habits, but that doesnt take away from my fundamentals. So no, I dont think this is the problem with why he says its 2-8. Cage is my main by the way... next to Kung Lao and Kitana.

3) While I agree with most of what you said here, in my honest opinion, this game is very so balanced, character wise. What I dont understand is why tournaments dont just outright ban resets in general. It would be more fair that way. As for counterpicking, there is hidden selection option for both players, this shouldnt be a problem. Stages, on the other hand, flip a coin or something. I dont think Kabal is broken either, just really really good character. Its already been known that hes one of the best if not the best characters around.

 

[GrandMasterson]

3) While I agree with most of what you said here, in my honest opinion, this game is very so balanced, character wise. What I dont understand is why tournaments dont just outright ban resets in general. It would be more fair that way. As for counterpicking, there is hidden selection option for both players, this shouldnt be a problem. Stages, on the other hand, flip a coin or something. I dont think Kabal is broken either, just really really good character. Its already been known that hes one of the best if not the best characters around.

You just said this game is so very balanced, and then in the very next sentence you asked why tournaments don't just outright ban resets because it would be more fair.

What the hell are you talking about?

 

[Theme]

You just said this game is so very balanced, and then in the very next sentence you asked why tournaments don't just outright ban resets because it would be more fair.

What the hell are you talking about?

Can you not read in between the lines or are you incapable of such simple things? Stop playing words. If you cannot understand, I'll restate my words differently:

Characters are quite balanced compared to other games, besides a few things like resets, and the resets could be handled by banning them from tournaments, and there goes the reset problems.

Do
You
Understand
Now?
Derp derp.

 

[GrandMasterson]

Can you not read in between the lines or are you incapable of such simple things? Stop playing words. If you cannot understand, I'll restate my words differently:

Characters are quite balanced compared to other games, besides a few things like resets, and the resets could be handled by banning them from tournaments, and there goes the reset problems.

Do
You
Understand
Now?
Derp derp.

Banning all resets would be stupid. You're basically admitting the game is unbalanced as it is and requires banning certain aspects of it in order to be fair. And all you said was "this game is very so balanced, character wise", which doesn't imply "the characters are balanced compared to other games".

I understood just fine, you just contradicted yourself and failed to clarify your statements.

 

[Scoot Magee]

I think scorpion vs cage is 7-3 or even 8-2 in cages favor. Fucking it I'm going to go 8-2. If anyone wants to tell me why its not that bad I'd be happy to talk about it.

I was actually going to put up a match chart for scorpion today. People are going to probably rip it apart but I think it's pretty accurate for the matches I have experience in.

 

[LEGEND]

Someone needs to close this thread

 

[Espio]

You're right REO no Stryker or Jade would win a fight against Cage with only the things listed, you need a complete character with competent footsies on par with the Cage player.

I've been fighting Cage players from this forum for about 4 months, not a first to ten, not days, not weeks, 4 whole months. How many people who think Cage versus these characters is a bunch of 7-3' and 8-2's actually play Stryker, Jade, Kano, Sheeva, and Baraka?


I have no problem admitting some of these match ups are 6-4 in Cage's favor; however,Stryker and Jade have plenty of tools to not be 7-3's I cannot speak for characters I don't play though.

 

[Scoot Magee]

Oh I also think cage beats reptile probably 6-4. Reptile cant really fight him up close that well. He does have dash to get him off but 1 bad dash will cost you the match. Enhanced dash would be another option that would work well but nut punch blows it up on reaction. Reptiles best bet is to try to keep cage out and when he gets close try to d+4/321 acid hand and try to get back out of range. TBH though once cage is even in sweep range reptile cant really do anything besides take a risk. How is he going to retreat backwards to gain enough space to try to keep johnny out? He has a good shot with meter but once that bar is gone he's in big trouble and johnny cage will get in on him.

 

[LEGEND]

You're right REO no Stryker or Jade would win a fight against Cage with only the things listed, you need a complete character with competent footsies on par with the Cage player.

I've been fighting Cage players from this forum for about 4 months, not a first to ten, not days, not weeks, 4 whole months. How many people who think Cage versus these characters is a bunch of 7-3' and 8-2's actually play Stryker, Jade, Kano, Sheeva, and Baraka?


I have no problem admitting some of these match ups are 6-4 in Cage's favor; however,Stryker and Jade have plenty of tools to not be 7-3's I cannot speak for characters I don't play though.

yes, stryker and jade are at worst a 4-6 vs Cage. Kano being 2-8 exposes this as a troll thread

 

[NkdSingularity]

Why do so many people justify "there are no 2-8s" with "every MU is winnable"?
If a MU was unwinnable it would be scored as a 0-10.

Espio872 Next time you play a long series with a good cage player please record the results and see, statistically, how many matches you win out of 10.

 

[ZtrideRz]

Totally agree with this list only thing I would say was kung Lao is 6-4 for cage good work.

 

[Espio]

Why do so many people justify "there are no 2-8s" with "every MU is winnable"?
If a MU was unwinnable it would be scored as a 0-10.

Espio872 Next time you play a long series with a good cage player please record the results and see, statistically, how many matches you win out of 10.

I don't have good recording software, but I will be at Season's Beatings and maybe I'll be able to play Dizzy if he's there.

I usually win a decent amount against the Cage players, I don't count how many wins I get.

 

[GrandMasterson]

I have no problem admitting some of these match ups are 6-4 in Cage's favor; however,Stryker and Jade have plenty of tools to not be 7-3's I cannot speak for characters I don't play though.

Stryker is my second main. I would say Stryker has a fighting chance against Cage with his lighting fast uppercut, standing 4, gun cancels, his quick D1, and B+2 shenanigans. I'd say 6-4 in Cage's favor, but my level of Stryker isn't up there with someone like Vulcan Hades. I'm still experimenting with Stryker's rushdown.

 

[NkdSingularity]

I don't have good recording software, but I will be at Season's Beatings and maybe I'll be able to play Dizzy if he's there.

Sorry for being ambiguous, I meant write down whether you won or lost each match, perhaps in a spreadsheet.

 

[THTB]

What's funny is how much people don't understand how much this game is changing. Cage is bad from mid screen or further if you don't abuse his forward dash. Forward movement is too good in this game still. Unless you're Kenshi, Freddy, or Kabal, you aren't keeping anyone out indefinitely. Factor in Cage's great forward dash and f3, and you get what REO is trying to say. Yes, you can poke out of repeated f3s. Cage can do other things on top of f3 mixups.

Cage isn't top 5 material until you put him in the hands of a really good player with developed fundamentals. Then you see it all.

Flavor of the moment? Lord no.

 

[Scoot Magee]

REO's list is not a troll it's accurate.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

When Jax is beating the living shit out of you in the corner you are actively building meter to break it. I'm not saying 100% combos are fair but you have something to fall back on if it does happen to you. In Cage's god damn retarded guessing game he is actively building meter while you are left with none, there is no escape, there is no compensation, there is no mercy. Against 90% of the cast he has to guess right once and he is in, and then he can do braindead shit like f3 over and over forcing you into the fetal position until goes 'DAMN IM GOOD HHHAHA JOHNY CAGE YEAAAH OOOOOOWWH HAHA' and then walks away with that smug as fuck look on his face as if anything he did required any effort what so ever.

I got carried away there but you get the point, this nigga broke.

I like what I have done to you

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

REO's list is not a troll it's accurate.

Whats gonna make his list more accurate than mine? Considering he mains Kabal, and I main Cage and dont use Cage specifically for counterpicking in tournaments?

Does this make me the Tom Brady of Cage players?

 

[Espio]

Stryker is my second main. I would say Stryker has a fighting chance against Cage with his lighting fast uppercut, standing 4, gun cancels, his quick D1, and B+2 shenanigans. I'd say 6-4 in Cage's favor, but my level of Stryker isn't up there with someone like Vulcan Hades. I'm still experimenting with Stryker's rushdown.

Vulcan is so legit, I'd love to see his opinion on this match up. He hasn't been on in a couple weeks though.

 

[Scoot Magee]

Whats gonna make his list more accurate than mine? Considering he mains Kabal, and I main Cage and dont use Cage specifically for counterpicking in tournaments?

Does this make me the Tom Brady of Cage players?

Reo has more cage match up experience than people really give him credit for. He's been playing the character for a long time. TBH I haven't seen your match up chart though. The only reason I came across this thread is because I was tagged in it otherwise I'm not in the cage forums much.

I will say he has a lot of players that are known for their characters to get match up experience against them offline. I know you're supposed to be one of the best cage players but from what I know you've only played in Europe so far besides online. No disrespect at all btw.

 

[MagicMan357]

explain kano 8-2

 

[Zwooosh]

Aaaaaaaand we've all been trolled.