What makes up a good fighting game?

[MKF30]

Not a fan of these team elements, I mean I like the way a separate tag team mode like in MK9 and DOA is incorporated. The way MVC and SG's does it is just weird to me. I'm more of a fan of 99 seconds personally, 60 is too short imo.

Check out Check's youtube vids lol, he redefines "tag team combos" that make your jaw drop.

Personally, I'd love to hear about or see more "2 on 2 tag team tourneys" with 4 people playing at once, that would be something newer for once. And cool to see.

 

[Sixoul]

Not a fan of these team elements, I mean I like the way a separate tag team mode like in MK9 and DOA is incorporated. The way MVC and SG's does it is just weird to me. I'm more of a fan of 99 seconds personally, 60 is too short imo.

Check out Check's youtube vids lol, he redefines "tag team combos" that make your jaw drop.

Personally, I'd love to hear about or see more "2 on 2 tag team tourneys" with 4 people playing at once, that would be something newer for once. And cool to see.

Do you mean like what SFxT is doing? I'm just curious as to whether if team fighters are more popular then 1v1 fighters.

EDIT: Also wondering what are all the special moves in fighting games. I know there are fireballs, slides, grapple, teleports, counters, etc. Think from any fighting game you've ever played and a special move style, like a fireball.

 

[DragonPick]

MKF30 Yeah, one of my favorite things about this game is how even if the moves are similar, they are never the same visually or in properties. Or at least in some distinguishable way. It's really cool how they did this, making each of the characters go from clones of each other, to completely different. SF does change things up, but not to MK's extent.

Sixoul I think that is once again more opinion. On the team thing I mean First, just my opinion, but time should always be really long, I hate time outs, but I don't know. Now, on SG that could work, but the thing they are doing is untested, never done before, so it's not completely certain how it will work. I believe it will do wondrously, but who knows? Team games are usually looked down upon though. They can be done really well, but it's a bit difficult to do it properly, and can blur the line between gimmick and depth

Again, if you want to do teams and how you want to do it (share a lifebar, one dies the other loses, all have separate lifebars, etc.) that's on you and how you want your game to work. Reason MK9 tag doesn't happen a lot is because it's a bit glitchy and there are a couple infinites and whatnot. :/

Finally special moves? When I want to make a special move, I literally just think of what would look really super cool (I watched a lot of old kung fu movies and stuff, heh) and mess with it, try and make it viable and balanced for a character's moveset. It'd be hard to gather every type...

Charge style attacks
retreating techniques
Anti air grabs/hits/projectiles
Izuna Drop (the ninja piledriver)
Tetsu-Zanku slamming them with your back. Kinda like Yun)
Dive kicks
dash punches
reflects (projectiles)
Counters
flight
invisibility
The list goes on...

Check out Mortal Kombat Armageddon, it was not that great of a fighter, but it had an insane amount of characters, therefore insane amount of special moves.

 

[Sixoul]

Thanks for the input. I'm not sure Izuna drops, and Tetsu-Zanku are really their own kind of specials. I mean broad general style. Izuna Drops can be set up as an air grab. Tetsu-Zanku is pretty much a basic physical special move. Charge attack, dive kicks, reflects, all the other stuff you listed is more of what I was looking for.

I never thought about Armageddon. It really does have a huge roster doesn't it.

 

[DragonPick]

One of the largest in all fighters, iirc.

 

[MKF30]

Do you mean like what SFxT is doing? I'm just curious as to whether if team fighters are more popular then 1v1 fighters.

EDIT: Also wondering what are all the special moves in fighting games. I know there are fireballs, slides, grapple, teleports, counters, etc. Think from any fighting game you've ever played and a special move style, like a fireball.

Yeah, I agree with Dragon's post concerning the time length on team matches since they do take longer(in any fighter lol) then a typical 1 vs. 1 match.

I meant so more of MVC and Skull Girls method to me is ehh lol. Could be fun though, just not my preference personally. I like MK9's team matches more.

SF vs. Tekken seems like a combination of MK9's tag team and MVC's, Smash and Skull girls kind of with having your partner back you up, tagging them in and out plus that other mode having all 4 on the screen at once.

DragonPick, yeah I agree man totally. SF has changed slightly over the years with those things, but MK has changed even more I think from gameplay to the costumes, stories of the characters themselves which makes them all very unique from one another.

 

[DragonPick]

It's one of the things I like about MK. It changes constantly and evolves. Through character deaths and new characters, sometimes bad, but it isn't afraid to change. And then it does this and creates a unique and powerful change that makes it simply amazing.

 

[Sixoul]

Why do some fighting game communities consider MK not as deep as UMVC3 or SSFIV AE or Blazblue? I just don't understand how SSFIV is deeper then MK where there are clear combos. I think the only game that has some form of depth out of those three is Blazblue. UMVC3 has infinites everywhere making it not that much fun so no one really goes that deep into the game. SSFIV is well SSFIV and I could never get into them. Blazblue combos seem unique and easy to pull off compared to SSFIV.

 

[DragonPick]

Why do some fighting game communities consider MK not as deep as UMVC3 or SSFIV AE or Blazblue? I just don't understand how SSFIV is deeper then MK where there are clear combos. I think the only game that has some form of depth out of those three is Blazblue. UMVC3 has infinites everywhere making it not that much fun so no one really goes that deep into the game. SSFIV is well SSFIV and I could never get into them. Blazblue combos seem unique and easy to pull off compared to SSFIV.

A combination of preference and bad reputation, in my opinion. though I guess we could never really know. Not being able to "get into" a game doesn't necessarily make it a bad game though. And depth is a term that's thrown around a lot, often with no clear meaning. Combos, though a big part, don't make the fighting game. SSFIV does have clear combos, they are just wildly different from MK's. Same with UMvC3.
The goal in UmvC3 is the extremely long combos, so infinites or near infinites are actually part of the game play. Though I don't think there are many true infinites, they've been patched out by now. Because you have three characters, infinites and long, destroying combos are treated much differently.
I wish I could help, but I really have nothing else to say here. At this point, the word "depth" is kind of shallow and more opinionated because of it's terrible usage by loads of people who probably don't understand what's going on in the first place. Plus I haven't played BB, so... >_>

 

[MKF30]

Why do some fighting game communities consider MK not as deep as UMVC3 or SSFIV AE or Blazblue? I just don't understand how SSFIV is deeper then MK where there are clear combos. I think the only game that has some form of depth out of those three is Blazblue. UMVC3 has infinites everywhere making it not that much fun so no one really goes that deep into the game. SSFIV is well SSFIV and I could never get into them. Blazblue combos seem unique and easy to pull off compared to SSFIV.

I agree, that term "depth" for one is way overrated....a game can still be deep enough or good enough to be successful and fun, and good without "pure depth" look at Mario, is it extremely deep? Hardly, now it's deeper then before with mechanics but still simple, yet to this day one of the best video games ever. I rest my case.


MK is deep enough at this point and good and fun enough with the proper tools for a good fighter, period. Anyone who disagrees to that by now is just a hater. Way I see it, at times with this topic MK is as underrated as Marvel is overrated...there are games of neither like Smash bros that isn't extremely deep but still a good, solid game as well.

A combination of preference and bad reputation, in my opinion. though I guess we could never really know. Not being able to "get into" a game doesn't necessarily make it a bad game though. And depth is a term that's thrown around a lot, often with no clear meaning. Combos, though a big part, don't make the fighting game. SSFIV does have clear combos, they are just wildly different from MK's. Same with UMvC3.
The goal in UmvC3 is the extremely long combos, so infinites or near infinites are actually part of the game play. Though I don't think there are many true infinites, they've been patched out by now. Because you have three characters, infinites and long, destroying combos are treated much differently.
I wish I could help, but I really have nothing else to say here. At this point, the word "depth" is kind of shallow and more opinionated because of it's terrible usage by loads of people who probably don't understand what's going on in the first place. Plus I haven't played BB, so... >_>

Pretty much, the word is used very loosely and highly overrated..."owee my game is deeper then yours, thus it's better" such flawed logic lol. You know? Like you said, MK doesn't just do gameplay but other things that the typical fighter ignores with cool, developed characters, an awesome storyline, cool new modes daily, online play etc. It's everything you want from a fighter and then some. To me anyway. You gotta love how there's tons of infinites in MVC2 and MVC3 yet nobody talks about it because they may be "hard or difficult to do" yet it's still a bug/infinite.

Lastly, I've rented BB and played KOF, they seem so similar to me and are rather dull to me. Their characters also look alike lol, maybe that's just their Japanese style I don't know but the MK characters just stick out from each other compared to other fighting games at times.

 

[Panque]

I for one like a nice corner game =)

 

[DragonPick]

MKF30 I don't think many people realize that if it's possible, it can be done at a tourney level. If a character has an infinite, even an extremely hard one (like Kratos, it's pretty much NDCs constantly) it will be practiced by a pro until they master it so they can get that moolah at big tournies. A bug/infinite/exploit/etc. must be dealt with asap, because, difficult or not for the average person, someone out there has the time and want to perfect that.

And yeah, the fighting is always the most important part, but the other things help to make the game not only great fun but memorable.

 

[Tolkeen]

Capcom characters... Oh wait, this isn't shoryuken...
Then what makes a fighter good/successful is a way for casual players to feel good at it, but a depth that seperates the top competetive players.


Tapatalk, helping me procrastinate.

 

[MKF30]

MKF30 I don't think many people realize that if it's possible, it can be done at a tourney level. If a character has an infinite, even an extremely hard one (like Kratos, it's pretty much NDCs constantly) it will be practiced by a pro until they master it so they can get that moolah at big tournies. A bug/infinite/exploit/etc. must be dealt with asap, because, difficult or not for the average person, someone out there has the time and want to perfect that.

And yeah, the fighting is always the most important part, but the other things help to make the game not only great fun but memorable.

Oh yeah totally, that's why all games now have patches! Some, the greedier companies will make a "new" game entirely even though it's still the same game with added characters they could have added via DLC...lol gotta love that eh?

That's why I like MK the most, it offers everything.

 

[Juggs]

All I will say is that the bigger the skill gap, the better the game. If the skill gap between Noobs to Pro's is massive, the game is good. If the skill gap is much smaller between the two, the game isn't as good.

 

[Sixoul]

How can a big skill gap make a better game? My thought on the skill gap is if there is a big one the low ranked players will find a spammable strategy and just use that. Resulting in something like umvc3 where lowbies have to deal with wesker otg and lose after one hit. Online, imo, needs to be a viable place to practice combo execution and strategies. With a big skill gap I don't think new players will be able to get up to the competitive players level. I have problems with low level play but mid to high I can deal with better and I don't want that.

 

[MKF30]

I think it depends really.