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Tekken 8 Post-Release Discussion Thread

CrimsonShadow

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
M2Dave said:
If you follow the online competitive scene, you fill find that Cyrax/Sareena has been a common pick recently.

If you play Kombat League at higher ranks, you will also find that Cyrax/Sareena has been a common pick recently.

If you were playing Mortal Kombat 1 for the past six months or so, you probably had the feeling that Cyrax was a very strong character, but Cyrax players were choosing inferior kameos.

Foxy was arguably the first player to discover Cyrax/Sareena.

Subsequently, Sonic Fox copied and mastered the team, as expected from someone who excels at such gameplay style.

Click to expand...
I do follow the competitive scene.

Week 1 Pro Komp East/West:
  • East Top 8: we saw Johnny Cage, T-1000, Liu Kang, Takeda, Conan, Cyrax, Havik, Noob, Ghostface, Baraka. Grand Finals was Ghostface vs. T-1000
  • Three players tried to play Cyrax/Sareena (TheMightyUnjust, Cucuy, and Pure) and all three of of them ended up switching off Cyrax midway through the set. Pure and Cucuy ended up in a 2-2 that was almost exclusively zoning (Peacemaker vs. Sektor).
  • West Top 8: we saw Cyrax, Baraka, Ernac, Homelander, Kung Lao, Johnny Cage, Havik, Sektor, Mileena, Kitana. the final set was won by Rewind with Kitana against Reiko/Raiden/Ermac.
  • The only person who stuck with Cyrax was Sonic, who had already qualified
Week 2 Pro Komp East/West:
  • East Top 8: we saw Rain, Homelander, Sektor, Mileena, Johnny Cage, Cyrax, T-1000, Omni-Man, Kitana. Grand Finals was Rain/T-1000 vs. Kitana/Mileena
  • Two players play used Cyrax: Pulse lost 3-0 to PL, didn't win a round. DeadlyRebel won one set with Cyrax (Tremor, not Sareena) against LilDred and one against Bustman. Lost 3-0 to Cucuy and we didn't see Cyrax after that.
  • West Top 8: we saw Mileena, Sektor, Ashrah, Johnny Cage, Kitana, Geras, Homelander, Li Mei, Noob, Grand Finals was Ashrah vs. Kitana
  • We didn't see one Cyrax
So this argument makes no sense. If it is "concerning" to you that one Cyrax outside of Sonic (without Sareena) managed to win 2 matches out of 4 full Top 8s, when all those top 8s were won by normal space control/whiff punish characters, I don't know what to say.

To paint setplay as this huge problem that "many players are concerned about" when it's clearly no more viable than any other style of play in this game (outside of Sonic Fox, who wins with whatever) sounds like scrub talk. I can't believe I'm hearing this from the Great "raise the power levels" M2dave :cool:
 
M2Dave

M2Dave

Zoning Master
CrimsonShadow said:
I do follow the competitive scene.

Week 1 Pro Komp East/West:
  • East Top 8: we saw Johnny Cage, T-1000, Liu Kang, Takeda, Conan, Cyrax, Havik, Noob, Ghostface, Baraka. Grand Finals was Ghostface vs. T-1000.
  • Three players tried to play Cyrax/Sareena (TheMightyUnjust, Cucuy, and Pure) and all three of of them ended up switching off Cyrax midway through the set. Pure and Cucuy ended up in a 2-2 that was almost exclusively zoning (Peacemaker vs. Sektor).
  • West Top 8: we saw Cyrax, Baraka, Ernac, Homelander, Kung Lao, Johnny Cage, Havik, Sektor, Mileena, Kitana. Grand Finals was won by Rewind with Kitana against Reiko/Raiden/Ermac.
  • The only person who stuck with Cyrax was Sonic, who didn't make it to Grand Finals
Week 2 Pro Komp East/West:
  • East Top 8: we saw Rain, Homelander, Sektor, Mileena, Johnny Cage, Cyrax, T-1000, Omni-Man, Kitana. Grand Finals was Rain/T-1000 vs. Kitana/Mileena
  • Two players play used Cyrax: Pulse lost 3-0 to PL, didn't win a round. DeadlyRebel won one set with Cyrax (Tremor, not Sareena) against LilDred and one against Bustman. Lost 3-0 to Cucuy and we didn't see Cyrax after that.
  • West Top 8: we saw Mileena, Sektor, Ashrah, Johnny Cage, Kitana, Geras, Homelander, Li Mei, Noob, Grand Finals was Ashrah vs. Kitana
  • We didn't see one Cyrax.
Click to expand...
Thank you for conducting the meticulous research, particularly because I forgot about T-1000.

The rush-down characters are listed in bold.

People can make up their own mind.

For the record, I do not perceive any player or character hold block as "zoning". LOL.

CrimsonShadow said:
To paint setplay as this huge problem that "many players are concerned about" when it's clearly no more viable than any other style of play in this game (except for Sonic Fox, who you are deathly afraid of) sounds like scrub talk, to me. I can't believe I'm hearing this from the Great M2dave :cool:
Click to expand...
"Scrub talk". LOL.

I am too old to for ad-hominem attacks.

If you wish to engage in civil and nuanced discourse, please let me know.

The cordial offer has been made over and over again.

Whenever you gain the confidence, contact me. You have my number.
 
Amplified$hotz

Amplified$hotz

I like Tekken 8
M2Dave said:
I agree.

Above everything else, however, that event was good because the game is good.

If you replaced that event with Mortal Kombat 1 and identical character variety, Crimson would speak with an entirely different tone and attitude.

Speaking of Crimson...



If you follow the online competitive scene, you fill find that Cyrax/Sareena has been a common pick recently.

If you play Kombat League at higher ranks, you will also find that Cyrax/Sareena has been a common pick recently.

If you were playing Mortal Kombat 1 for the past six months or so, you probably had the feeling that Cyrax was a very strong character, but Cyrax players were choosing inferior kameos.

Foxy was arguably the first player to discover Cyrax/Sareena.

Subsequently, Sonic Fox copied and mastered the team, as expected from someone who excels at such gameplay style.




I have never stated that Sektor cannot zone. I have also never stated that Sektor's zoning is not good.

In fact, when a character can zone, I corrected misconceptions as recently as yesterday.

My talking point is that the dichotomy between offense/rushdown and defensive/zoning is lopsided in Mortal Kombat 1, which is precisely what overall tournament results prove.

Consequently, I support and promote minor to major buffs to certain defensive/zoning characters (i.e., Peacemaker, Quan Chi, Tanya, etc.)

If you want to discuss and debate the specifics, you are, again, for the tenth time, invited to any podcast of your selection (i.e., King Jr's, Mike's, or Tom's). Just suggest the date and time and I will make the proper arrangements.
Click to expand...
Well I won’t say that you’re wrong. Again, I generally like the game enough to continue playing it.

Do you think Tekken fans just don’t understand what they have? Because those fans matter to the longterm success of the franchise in my opinion.
 
CrimsonShadow

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
M2Dave said:
Thank you for conducting the meticulous research, particularly because I forgot about T-1000.

The rush-down characters are listed in bold.

People can make up their own mind.

For the record, I do not perceive any player or character hold block as "zoning". LOL.
Click to expand...
Goalposts are moving now.

Your original claim was that all these people are winning with Cyrax/Sindel hard-to-blockable setups. Now it's become "rushdown chracters". Out of the entire list of characters you put in bold, one of them (T-1000) won a Top 8. So what are we complaining about here?

And you are known for calling people scrubs/fools, so I'm just asking if you've become what you set out to destroy :cool:

P.S. You made your name in a game (MK9) where the best defensive characters never won anything. And then played Tremor in MKX where 95% of the cast is rushdown.
 
M2Dave

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Amplified$hotz said:
Do you think Tekken fans just don’t understand what they have?
Click to expand...
No, they do not.

I also question how many people are fans if they engage in destructive criticism, boycotts, and threats.

If you are looking at the Tekken community from the outside, why would any sensible human being want to be a part of it?

CrimsonShadow said:
P.S. You made your name in a game (MK9) where the best defensive characters never won anything.
Click to expand...
Are you implying that Mortal Kombat 9 and Mortal Kombat 1 have equivalent zoning efficiency?

Yes, I did make my name in Mortal Kombat 9 by placing top 8 with Freddy at EVO 2012, so I have some credibility on this matter.

I will continue stating that Mortal Kombat 1 has the weakest zoning out of any NRS fighting game.

Most of my zoning/defensive brethren (i.e., Cowboy, Playing to Win, Tom Brady, etc.) feel the same way.

Depending on the version of the game, even Mortal Kombat X had superior zoning/defensive options, which, I admit, is a red hot take.

Nonetheless, remember that King won a major tournament (while beating Sonic Fox, if I recall correctly) with Predator.

So your own logic is flawed and exposes you as an anti-zoning zealot in addition to being a coward who refuses to debate me on a podcast... :cool:
 
Juggs

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
CrimsonShadow said:
Apparently getting 2nd in the Nations Cup Final was not enough to save Arslan Ash from Namco's wrath, LOL :cool:

https://x.com/i/web/status/1914408832371179579
Click to expand...
I saw that he said it was an accident.

As far as setplay in MK1, it definitely IS and HAS been very strong. It really shouldn’t be as strong as it is. It makes the game boring to play and watch. A big reason it’s so strong is the lopsided risk/reward in MK1.
 
Roy Arkon

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
M2Dave said:
Yes! Finally!

Bring on the nerfs.

I cannot wait to play a game with less options.

I am confident that the Tekken community will never again complain after this patch.
Click to expand...
Oh you mean like how you keep complaining about MK1 even after it has been proven that it is the best and the greatest fighting game of this generation, and even after all the patches?

Yeah, sure.

And also, having too many options isn't good, just like having to few isn't good either. This idea that there is no such thing as too much in gaming false by default.
 
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